Aclave - What are they ? & how do they work?

OK, again without sounding like a complete imbosile newbie.... I think they are a very high pressure steam cleaner/sanitiser of some sort.... But why are they so expensive? and couldnt you just use a portable steam cleaner and ultrasonic cleaner of some sort to get similar results?? AGAIN...I AM NOT A SCRATCHER.... just interested in how it all works behind the scenes... and to understand exactly why tattoo's are sooo expensive (you gotta cover your costs somewhere) Cheers from Australia

SHIT ^^ sort about the title...... its AUTOCLAVE not ACLAVE....... wish that edit button was coming..

In before the assholes - lol. First, yes, autoclaves are expensive but so are all of the other equipment, fixtures, machines, tools and materials used in tattooing. Many of them have to be replenished often (ink, needles, cleaning supplies, etc..) Tattoos are expensive based on this, as well as the experience of the artist and their technical/artistic abilities. A tattoo must pay both the artist and the shop owner for things to run properly. I won't even list all of the costly bills that have to be paid to run a tattoo shop. But, in spite of the fact that you think tattoos are expensive, it is not a big money making craft. Also, what do you expect to pay for a (hopefully) great piece of art that will last forever. Ok..onto the important part...Autoclaves. First, ultrasonic cleaners are just that..cleaners. They do not kill or destroy any bacteria or virus. Steam cleaners that are not sterilizers do not reach a high enough temperature for a long enough time to either detroy or kill any and all bacteria and viruses. If you want more info, research the difference between cleaning, disinfection and sterilization as well as stream cleaning VS. steam sterilization. Autoclaves even need (special) spore testing to make sure they are working properly. There is no replacement for proper sterilization. Hope that helped. :)

you're paying for the talent and time, not the equipment.

You're paying for everything. Bussinesses cost money.

Gina, although some of your information does have some fact behind it, I still think the fact that you are, after all, a 'scratcher' illegally tattooing out of your home set-up does rather limit your qualifications to discuss the tattoo business from a knowledgeable point of reference. I am not trying to come off like a prick but I do get rather pissed when anyone who is a scratcher, regardless of how well intended, tries to come off like a professional. You have a lot of nerve commenting about the 'business' when, in reality you have absolutely no profession experience from which to speak. In the future kindly keep your post to things you actually know about and have experience from which to speak and do not try to come off like you are a professional. Naturally, I'm anticipating some smart-ass response to this, but the fact remains that you are not truly qualified to talk about some of this stuff and you are illegally working out of your home. And it really isn't meant 'personally' towards you specifically, I'd say the same thing to any other scratcher trying to come off like a qualified professional.

Dr, John, I thought we were over this. What I said either carries truth or it doesn't. Why don't you share all of the illegal and DISGUSTING habits that go on in your shop...then we'll talk. Asshole.

Oh...and I'd rather be a "scratcher", working out of my home studio (not kitchen, basement, etc...) than being a HACK posing as a professional in your filthy shop with your below average "scratchy" tattoos. You dick.

Gina, your replies are pretty much what I was expecting, just as immature and without merit as your comments about the same weak crap on the 'other forum' which I fully addressed these same bogus accusations in depth and have no intention of repeating. I'd suspect the FACTS that I've had my own studio for over 26 years and have never had a single complaint to the health department have considerably more credibility than your neurotic accusations and/or excuses. As to your 'Dr, John, I thought we were over this.' be advised that anytime I catch any scratcher trying to come off like a real professional I will call them out about it nothing will ever change that. Again, it is nothing personal towards you in particular, I just have a serious issues with scratchers, whoever they are.

Ok, I am a scratcher...but you are a HACK. Yes, I am self-tough but I have only tattooed myself and family (and never tried to say otherwise). And I still use an autoclave, spore testing, etc... You, on the other hand, have run a FILTHY shop for decades, with ZERO artistic talent. You smoke in your shop, had a dog and claim that "Hepa Filters" were the answer to all of your shop problems. You, sir, ARE a hypocrite. You are the same old-school asshole who thinks everything he does is ok but tries to screw everyone else. The truth is, old man, that what I have learned now has surpassed what "scratchy" teachings you learned back in the day. I am a beginner but you are a hack, lets not pretend otherwize...you look like an idiot. (and are one).

and this is why I 100% discourage talking about the technical aspects of tattooing in a public forum... Autoclave - a piece of equipment designed to kill all the germs and bacteria and nasties on a piece of equipment 100% making it sterile. Its not that expensive for the job it does.

...and that was the original point I tried to make. Without getting involved politically.

BTW, Gabe, you never see me try to answer tech. questions here. And I feel that safety is one area of the industry that should NOT be kept secret. So I answered the question.

Gina, for a bit further clarification, the info you gave re:Autoclave was true and accurate, I had/have no problem with that. However, when you tried to talk about the expenses involved in running a studio, the overhead, etc., that is where you crossed the line. As you have never owned or even worked in a legitimate shop, nor ever relied upon tattooing as your only/legal source of income THAT is what caused me to 'call you out' You do not pay separate bills for rent, utilities, etc., nor do you pay personal property tax on the things you have in your tattoo 'shop' and you do not rely upon your income from tattooing to pay your bills and/or support yourself (or your family) like a real professional. Fact of the matter, due to your mental problem, you probably get a decent check from the government every month and your old man supports you, which is a lot different from being a real tattoo artist who has to make their income from tattooing, then disperse a lot of it for 'overhead' and still have enough left over to replace supplies, pay our other bills and live off of. And, while you can make all the lame excuses you want, the fact remains you ARE tattooing ILLEGALLY out of you home in a state that regulates tattoo and requires licensing AND inspections. Dis me all you want but it does not change the real facts, nothing you can say alters these facts. As to the 'The truth is, old man, that what I have learned now has surpassed what "scratchy" teachings you learned back in the day.' that is laughable coming from someone who can't even put a number on properly (Remember the upside down 1 in the In Memory Of tattoo you tried to do?) Or should I post it for folks to see. Perhaps they should increase your meds? And are the 3 cats you state you have somehow safer than the dog I had in my Studio?

Gina, i would like to thank you for answering my question in a way a non-professional would be able to understand.....and thankyou to the moderator for answering in a "normal fashion" i have my answer and i thank you.. its people like you who make forums like these alive.... If people like doctor dick where the only ones able to answer these questions, site traffic would be down and people like 'scratchers' would be doing a hell of alot more damage to the public. We need to hear of the importance of the equipment used so people are going to realise, shit id better leave it to a pro, and maybe take different steps in chasing the dream of one day becoming a respected tattoo artest, not just a fucking know-it-all who doesnt give a shit about anything except there next income...... So once again thankyou. P.S. id rather get an 80% great tattoo from someone who fucking cares enough to explain these things to me and takes the time with a client to explain, than a 100% perfect tattoo from some dick who just wants nothing more than his next job.....

dylan, the traffic to this website comes from the thousands of tattoos in our galleries done by amazing custom tattoo artists. this forum is a very small part of TattooNOW, and the part where people answer technical questions is the least important part of this site. In short, if we answered no questions here then traffic wouldnt dip at all. This forum is mostly a distraction from the point of the site, the art of tattooing... I would get tattooed by someone whos artwork you admire, not someone willing to give advice on the internet. Of course, Im very picky who tattoos me thesedays...

True i did not think of it that way, but thankyou again, and yes this site has been an absolute blessing. I just wanted to make a point, it kinda sucks how such a big named site just doesnt seem to be interested in answering simple "newbie" questions with an actual reasonable responses. but due to people like yourself and gina, it is possible to be an absolute "know nothing" or "newbie" and still get a respectable answer, that helps me in making my next tattoo desicion. P.S. I come from Australia where we do not have these types of forums, we are stuck in the land of the red, white and blue..... the only people who seem to have enough time on there hands is the good old american citizens. so once again thankyou.... Dylan

John, To clarify, I am no longer tattooing until I find an apprenticeship. Period. And I based that decision on my standstill as far as technical skills and because I don't get to tattoo routinely. There is no room for improvement. And I am at the point where if I can't do it well, and legally, I want no part of it. Secondly, I don't feel I crossed any line. What I was talking about was pure common sense. I could have been talk about any business establishment. I got mad because you're rant towards me was completely unwarranted and totally irrelivent to this discussion. We've already, in other discussions, established how we feel about one another. It had no place being brought up here. End of story.

"I just wanted to make a point, it kinda sucks how such a big named site just doesnt seem to be interested in answering simple "newbie" questions with an actual reasonable responses." Newbie questions should be asked of professional tattoo artists and not on this forum. We want to talk about art, and tattoos, and all sorts of things, but we do not want to have the responsibility of having people find answers to technical questions here. You need to ask technical questions to a tattoo artist directly, and not on a public forum. Indeed, you can pretty much guarantee if someone has enough time to answer technical questions on a public forum they arent busy enough tattooing or doing something more productive... You should look through the galleries and email artists directly, or talk to them in person at conventions. Talking about health is one thing, but other technical aspects are off limits here.

The point here: There are "shop owners" who are hacks, that think their poop don't smell because they've been at it for ten thousand years. Then there are artists... (such as Guy Aitchison), who are incredibly respected names in the industry who work from a clean, professional, home based studio... that a "shop owner" mentioned before will equate with a scratcher, even if they're wrong. There are scratchers who do it ALL wrong, and should be stopped. And there are more traditional style studios that constantly update and do it right. Decide which one you want to look up to, or have work from, and ask them.

John, 'To clarify, I am no longer tattooing until I find an apprenticeship. Period. And I based that decision on my standstill as far as technical skills and because I don't get to tattoo routinely. There is no room for improvement. And I am at the point where if I can't do it well, and legally, I want no part of it.' Naturally, I am quite relieved to learn you are going to stop until you learn to 'do it right' (apprenticeship) and I'll let the 'There is no room for improvement' statement slide as I suspect it is not what you truly meant as, obviously, there is always 'room for improvement' And while you may not believe it, I honestly do wish you the very best of luck in finding a good apprenticeship and actually becoming a real tattoo artist. 'Secondly, I don't feel I crossed any line. What I was talking about was pure common sense. I could have been talk about any business establishment.' As you were 'talking' about Tattooing, specifically, not any other business AND the fact that you were addressing it in a manner that implied you are/were a professional, THAT was where I thought you'd 'crossed the line' as I tried to express previously. The first paragraph of your reply does seem to sound like it was coming from someone speaking from experience, which, added to the fact that on all of your various sites (MySpace, InkedNation, etc.,) you DO/did? state you are a "Tattoo Artist' , did, as explained previously, cause my response to that part of your post. 'I got mad because you're rant towards me was completely unwarranted and totally irrelevantly to this discussion. We've already, in other discussions, established how we feel about one another. It had no place being brought up here. End of story.' Although I don't think my comments about your post would be considered a 'rant, nor 'unwarranted or irrelevantly' to the topic being discussed, again, as expressed, I feel your response would more likely be considered a 'rant' and I responded accordingly. As to ' We've already, in other discussions, established how we feel about one another. It had no place being brought up here', it seems to me that YOU chose to bring up issues previously discussed 'elsewhere' in your desire to insult me, my work ethics, the work I perform and discredit my statements, which, again, resulted in my response. Kindly understand that anytime ANYONE attacks me, my work ethics, etc., I WILL respond without hesitation as forcefully as I deem warranted (as you should know from the 'other forum') as this is not a 'part time hobby' or 'game' to me, I've devoted most of my adult life to this profession and have worked very hard to earn a good reputation which I do not take slander against lightly or casually. I try to deal with folks with the courtousy they show me, but when attacked, I attack back, with force and fact and that too will never change. Not to be an ass but, unlike you, I do have a reputation, a pretty damn good one at that so I will retaliate when it is attacked.

Wow Dr Dick, you really smoke in your tattoo studio. and then have the courage to talk shit on people who were only answering a question....... I look up to you dr dick....may your teachings be tought world wide so we all catch fucking dieses you HACK.... i think its time to shut this stream down lol

Dylan, Yeah, I smoke in my studio, so fucking what? It is not against the law nor have I ever heard it poses any risk to clients(other than the secondhand smoke that they are exposed to in plenty of other places), particularly as I have a very good HEPA filter running. In the 26 years I've had and operated my studio no client has ever said anything about it and the last I knew, I do have the right to smoke in my own business. So, anyone who has a problem with that fact is quite welcome to deal with it or fuck off, their choice. As to your calling me dr dick and a hack, I do hope you'll forgive me for giving less than a shit about your opinion, wanker, you're just another anonymous internet troll to me.

John, By "no room for improvement" I thought it was quite obvious that I meant without proper guidance and teaching. The whole reason why I am not going to tattoo until I get a proper apprenticeship is precisely because I need sooo badly to improve and I don't feel I can do it on my own. I believe I have learned all I can on my own, which I don't believe is good enough. I know I would learn A LOT in a shop and under the guidance of a real pro. Also, I certainly did not mean to imply in any way that I had shop experience, never mind owning one. You may call what I have at home a "studio" but it is simply a room that I dedicated to tattooing so it could remain clean and seperate. I always tried to do thing as "legit" as possible, as far as health and safety anyway. So my cats are totally off limits to the room and I don't even smoke in there. I have NEVER claimed (or even meant to imply) that I am a professional, however, I do try to be as professional as possible...which may appear misleading if I'm giving advice. However, that is not my intention. Bottom line is, I get sick of shop owners/workers who, like Candyman Joe said, think their shit doesn't stink because they are in a shop. That certainly does not make a tattooer legit, talented or clean. And many of these hypocrites do things illegally, (taxes, etc) in spite of being in a shop. How are these people any better? Again...lots of hypocrites n the biz. claiming scratchers are doing things illegally when they are too. It's just so frustrating to be called out as a scratcher (even if it's true, by definition) when I made my room as proper as I could (lightly colored, non-porus surfaces, a sink..all pro equipment...), I am obsessive about cleaning, disinfection, sterilization, barrier control. I only use the BEST equipment, (machines etc...) I just think that is different than buying a kit off ebay and hacking my friends in dirty conditions. Can you see my point, even if it's not "legit" like an apprenticeship? I', not saying it's ok, just more cautious than the usual self-thought tattooer.

"It's just so frustrating to be called out as a scratcher (even if it's true, by definition) when I made my room as proper as I could (lightly colored, non-porus surfaces, a sink..all pro equipment...), I am obsessive about cleaning, disinfection, sterilization, barrier control. I only use the BEST equipment, (machines etc...) I just think that is different than buying a kit off ebay and hacking my friends in dirty conditions. Can you see my point, even if it's not "legit" like an apprenticeship? I', not saying it's ok, just more cautious than the usual self-thought tattooer." RE: BINGO. Its all about the mentality going in. There's always room for improvement. Personally... I get pissed when my guys don't sweep up their cigarette butts outside... I cant imagine trying to tattoo customers in a cloud of nicotine and smoke. Disgusting. But some want to make it an argument about "personal freedom." I also believe stripper poles, smoking, skate ramps, and animals (cats OR dogs) are for the bar and home... not a top notch tattoo studio. blehh... maybe I'm just a prude.

' John, 'By "no room for improvement" I thought it was quite obvious that I meant without proper guidance and teaching. The whole reason why I am not going to tattoo until I get a proper apprenticeship is precisely because I need sooo badly to improve and I don't feel I can do it on my own. I believe I have learned all I can on my own, which I don't believe is good enough. I know I would learn A LOT in a shop and under the guidance of a real pro.' I suspected it was your wording that was misleading as I really do believe you are sincere in your desire to improve and learn to do it right, which, obviously, is where a proper apprenticeship comes in. Again, I honestly do wish you luck in finding one and I also think you have the drive and potential. All I've ever tried to express was to 'do it right', which, naturally, I feel involves a proper apprenticeship. 'Also, I certainly did not mean to imply in any way that I had shop experience, never mind owning one. You may call what I have at home a "studio" but it is simply a room that I dedicated to tattooing so it could remain clean and seperate. I always tried to do thing as "legit" as possible, as far as health and safety anyway. So my cats are totally off limits to the room and I don't even smoke in there. I have NEVER claimed (or even meant to imply) that I am a professional, however, I do try to be as professional as possible...which may appear misleading if I'm giving advice. However, that is not my intention.' Again, it was the way you worded things that, to me anyways, made it seem like you were implying you were writing from professional experience, which, again coupled with you stating on your various websites that you listed your occupation as 'tattoo artist' led me to that conclusion and caused my response. While I do understand that you did have a 'designated area' and may well have done your work with the proper respect for health/safety issues, the fact is you were still doing it illegally, in violation of the laws in your state. And while I'm honestly not trying to be a prick about it, after all the crap you and a few others threw at me on this and the 'other' forum about my smoking in my studio and the fact that I did have my dog in my studio as well as the fact you called me a hypocrite over those issues (which I addressed fully), I thought it was rather hypocritical of you to call me out when you have cats in your place. As to you saying your cats are 'off limits to the room', aside from the fact that cats are notoriously famous for getting into anything/everything no matter how vigilant you might try to be, the fact you have them in the same area poses the same 'risk' you accused me of. Plus the fact that if you had handled them and/or they'd climbed on you, your clothing would retain possible 'contaminates' which you, in turn, took into that room and had on your clothing when you were tattooing folks. The same concept applies to the smoking issue, if you smoke in your home, it is in the same air and on your clothing. Hopefully now you might be able to understand my anger over the crap I received over these issues, let alone the accusation that, as a result I run a 'filthy and dangerous shop' At the risk of being repetitive, I really do believe the fact that I have operated my own studio for over 26 years without a single complaint to the Health Dept. and have never even been accused of causing any health related problem 'proves' more than unfounded accusations or opinions. 'Bottom line is, I get sick of shop owners/workers who, like Candyman Joe said, think their shit doesn't stink because they are in a shop. That certainly does not make a tattooer legit, talented or clean. And many of these hypocrites do things illegally, (taxes, etc) in spite of being in a shop. How are these people any better? Again...lots of hypocrites n the biz. claiming scratchers are doing things illegally when they are too.' While I'm not sure if this is a subtle attempt to imply it includes me, I assure you I KNOW my shit stinks and that ,unfortunately, the jist of what is said there is true. As an 'old timer' I'm all too aware of the depressing fact that not all so-called 'pros' are 'legit,talented or clean' but, since I can not change that, except speaking out when I come across b.s.on these forums, I strive to do the very best I can to run my studio legally, with proper regard for health/safety issues and put out the best possible work I can. And while you have repeatedly called me a 'hack', I do believe the facts that I have had my own business for so long and that 80% of my business is repeat/referral may well make that seem more likely to be your opinion than actual fact. Again, I love and RESPECT my chosen profession, have always tried to do everything I could to 'walk the walk' NOT just 'talk the talk' so not only do I have no respect whatsoever for anyone- 'scratcher' or 'so-called pro' who does NOT, obviously, I take a great deal of offense at any suggestion that I am one of those, by you or anyone else, perhaps a bit more on the internet which can be read by so many and base their opinions by what they read, regardless of whether there is any factual information to back it up. It would be so much easier to deal with this shit if it were addressed to me 'face to face'. 'It's just so frustrating to be called out as a scratcher (even if it's true, by definition) when I made my room as proper as I could (lightly colored, non-porus surfaces, a sink..all pro equipment...), I am obsessive about cleaning, disinfection, sterilization, barrier control. I only use the BEST equipment, (machines etc...) I just think that is different than buying a kit off ebay and hacking my friends in dirty conditions. Can you see my point, even if it's not "legit" like an apprenticeship? I', not saying it's ok, just more cautious than the usual self-thought tattooer.' Although your expressed opinions about me might make it hard for you to believe, the truth is I CAN and DO understand your frustration and your point, I sincerely mean that. Fact is, I honestly respect your dedication to 'doing it right' and I also believe you do have the proper attitude/knowledge regarding safety/health issues and, in a way, my heart goes out to you and I truly do hope you can get your 'problem' under control, learn to deal with criticism just a bit more rationally (to say the least) and that you find a proper apprenticeship under someone who can see the potential you DO possess. I know and realize it is not easy but, damn it, if you really want this as bad as you say and as badly as I believe you do, GET ON WITH IT. Stop making excuses, regardless of how valid they may be, they ARE excuses and seek out an apprenticeship. I honestly believe that if your desire is really as strong as you say and I believe it to be, it will help overcome your 'problem' and open up a whole new world for you and a life far more rewarding than most folks ever get a chance to have. And I do not mean just the financial aspect, that ain't 'all that' nor the right goal IMHO but the sheer joy of putting artwork on someones body and seeing their face light up like a kid on Christmas morning when they look at in the mirror and knowing you did a good tattoo and a safe one that you can both be proud of. Now get your butt in gear (and stop making me compose these long ass replies)