Apprentices should be paid.

I'm sick of hearing about how some apprentice got screwed over. It's 2009 and apprentices should get paid just like in any other trade. This political tattoo industry crap. When the fuck will the industry get with the times???!!!! It's no secret where and how to get tattoo supplies etc, like it used to be "in the good old days". It's inconceivable to think you have to work for free, of even PAY some fucker to work for them?? EH?? absolute bollox.

i can see your point. to a limit. the word apprentice does mean ya work and serve for your education humbleness and such along with respect. but like ya say this is 2009 and times the way they are i can see throwing a cpl bucks there way for set up and break down and such just to help them along and feel appreciated and such.i guess its just a matter of personal opinion

apprentices are dirt. payng an apprentice is akin to paying a pig to wallow in the mud.

Maybe I should go back to UMass and ask them for my money back. I mean that shit took 4 years of overtime and hardwork... and I was paying THEM. Imagine.

GO-oooo Mary!!

Mary... dear oh dear, your edumacation clearly did you no good. Half wit. Apprentices are paid - it's called "on the job training", look into this and you'll see that this is fact, not fiction. Uni's/college etc are not on the job training. God it's like pulling teeth with you lot some times. And noz, well... I'm starting to like you - I'd still fuck you up in a heart beat though, pussy.

i would cream you like a dish of fresh peaches with little to no effort. i like you too.

So you title the post "Apprentices should be paid" then your rebuttal to my comment is "Apprentices are paid - it's called "on the job training", look into this and you'll see that this is fact, not fiction"? Obviously it's your "edumacation" or lack there of that causing you to be confused.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Mary, Mary, Mary, what's going on? You clearly understand the point I'm making about tattoo apprentices not being paid, or treated for that matter, the same as apprentices in other trades. Please don't try and pretend you didn't understand that. Tut, tut... Idiot. Are you noz? Thinking about it no, he has more about him than you have. . Thinking more, what exactly DID you study? Psychology or something equally useless huh?

Business management actually. You should probably try a little bit harder if you're trying to make a valid point. Calling people names and making assumptions just makes you look unintelligent and makes pretty much anything you say worthless in my opinion. That being said, no I don't think apprentices should be paid. They're an opportunity to learn a trait that could potentially earn someone over a hundred dollars an hour. If an apprenticeship was a paid job you'd have every idiot off the street that thinks tattooing is super cool coming in and wasting your time. That happens enough with apprenticeships being unpaid. If they have to earn the knowledge and work hard for it, they'll appreciate it way more once they are paid for the skill they've learned. A tattooing apprenticeship isn't "on the job training," snf if people are gonna bitch and moan about not getting paid for it, then they probably don't deserve it anyways. But what would I know. Co-managing a tattoo shop, a tattoo convention, and this website probably isn't enough to develop a valid opinion on apprenticeships, so I'm sure you have a better knowledge than me about these things.

You're boring now...

well look at it this way ,it costs about 5000 in training for any other trade so pay the trainer 5000 and then bitch about money i payed large for my apprenticeship pluss worked a full time job on top of that but that was 15 years ago now all the young fuckers whine they have to work for what they get

ps and when i did pay my apprentice all he did was sit around and whine and bitch and hit on all the female customers and knew it all in 3 months till i skidded his sorry ass

Name me five trades you pay 5K for.

you go to school, you pay.

hmmm. well, sorry to get off the new subject; but to the original post: i agree. I'm still in my apprenticeship and i get $10 a day. but that's just because my boss is super nice and just wants to show he appreciates the work i do that he doesn't have to do anymore. its not much, its more like a daily tip...not pay. its just being nice. I'd like to think I'm not dirt. i respect him and work hard and he's very patient with me and thankful for him. its not all always fun, but i like it, and the 10 bucks is just a bonus. he says, "Just add it to the lunch money pile".

5 trades you pay 5k for... How about every job you need a college degree for? I understand what you're saying in some respects, but it's also apples and oranges. Maybe some jobs you would get a paid internship or apprenticeship, but generally not tattooing and for valid reasons. The thing is with most paid internships the company is getting something out of it in the long wrong, ie. a team of potential managers, people working their way up in the company, people who will be an asset to the business in the future. Tattoo artists are independent contractors, so why would a shop pay to teach an artist, who they're not making money off of at first anyways, with the possibility they would then peace out and go somewhere else, or tattoo on their own? Granted that can all sort of be alleviated through contractual obligation, but it still wouldn't make sense from a business point of view. While most tattoo apprentices aren't paid, many shops pay for the apprentices supplies, let the apprentice use shop machines, and things like that while they are still learning, alleviating them of any personal cost in that area. Personally if you don't think its worth it to do an apprenticeship and not get paid, tattooing obviously isn't for you, or whoever would make the same complaint. If you want a PAID apprenticeship, find an industry that will give you one. Terribly sorry for my boring responses, you've made it quite clear your tiny brain is only entertained by name calling and pointless internet banter rather than actual responses to a question you posed.

Our last apprentice was getting paid every hour he tattooed after a year of "off the job" training. He had to hustle for his own tattoos, and couldnt hack it, but he was getting paid a better hourly wage than I get and he was "in the biz" no more than 14 months at the time. Im not complaining, I pay my bills ontime most of the time and I dont tattoo so I cant be happy enough. But that said, I have put in so much unpaid work over the years to make a living in the tattoo biz that apprentices and others complaining about the workload dont get much sympathy from me... Its a lot of work to make a living your own way, no matter what business, and most people cant hack it. Add on the complexities of tattooing and you cut out another round of people. In short, if you cant handle paying for an apprenticeship, drawing every day on your own time, and working to pay the bills, then you probably cant handle being a tattooer... where you run your own business, play personal shrink for 4-8 hours a day, then go draw for your next appointment all while paying a shit load of bills and taxes. After my our last experiance I was convinced that we wouldnt take on another apprentice until they got two sleeves and a back piece from the studio. Ironically, I was talking with Dana Helmuth last week about his last apprentice who quit to go back to making art not on people. I was like, well, was he a tattoo person? Dana said yeah, he got two sleeves and a back piece from before he even thought of it. We will be hosting a discussion panel at the tattoo gathering about how tattooers pick apprentices, and why the systems that are in place work (and when they dont).

I appreciate where you're coming from, but let's not pretend being a tattoo apprentice ship is any harder than being any other type of apprentice - example, brick layer, dry wall, plumber - all of which I would say are a lot harder work than a tattoo apprenticeship. At the end of the day not one of you have given me a single example of another apprenticeship where you pay to work - or work for free. You can gloss over it all you like - the fact of the matter is that the tattoo industry, as a whole, is behind the times, you Gabe, as a non tattooing tattoo shop owner, should, at least, understand this point, even if you don't necessarily agree with it. Agree or not, the tattoo industry IS yesteryear. There's many a great artist that won't make it in the tattoo industry just because of the politics. Seriously bollox.

This is for Noz - NO you DON'T pay for school in an apprenticeship. I thought you had more about you than that?? Clearly you're not as with it as I thought...

Apprentices in other trades have to take classes which are not free, therefore, they are paying their way to learn that trade (Plumber, Auto Mechanic, HVAC, Draftsman, and Electrician come to mind and conveniently, amount to 5 trades that require payment) The only people that complain about paying to apprentice, or for that matter, complain about not being considered for an apprenticeship, are the ones that have no intention on learning properly to begin with. Too many people nowadays want things handed to them with no effort put forth on their behalf, and bitch that they're not getting it, always pointing fingers about favoritism, I'm better than that guy, etc. Yes, it's possible to get an apprenticeship as a tattoo artist without paying a dime, it happens all the time to be honest with you, and many top dogs in the field have done it by proving a certain amount of loyalty and work ethic, in addition to having some natural talent. Yes, they have a leg up on those that don't have that talent, but that's what makes one good at this trade- TALENT. Unfortunately, many people that have the skills of a 5th grader doodling on a Trapper Keeper think with the encouragement of their "less talented then themselves" friends that they have all it takes to be a Tattoo Artist. WRONG. Bottom line- if you don't think you should have to pay for an apprenticeship, than get off your ass and prove the world wrong. Otherwise, STFU and find something else to do.

when i took my 3 years of welding school it was a total of about 4600 bucks to go as with almost any other trade out there so ya you do have to pay for what you get taught

None of my other schooling was free, I did pay for it. And again, our apprentice was getting paid after like 14 months for walk ins and such... Honestly, you sound like your advocating for lazy people. People who want something for nothing are lazy, and wont be good tattooers anyways. As far as being a tattooer being no harder than other trades... Tattooing is pretty serious and very difficult to do right, and when you fuck up your fucking up peoples skin. An artist need to have the patientce and smarts to learn to do things perfect the first time. I dont know if I agree its no harder than other trades. In fact, I know very few artists who have made it through, most quit they find it so hard. I also dont know any talented artists who wanted an apprenticeship that couldnt get it. If your art and business sense isnt going to make you 5 grand, then its certainly not good enough to put on peoples skins...

for @$#%s sake, Im having a conversation with a poster named anus... sometimes I wonder what im doing with my life...

I don't know about anyone else, but I DID get paid as an apprentice and I was paid very, very well... I WAS PAID WITH MY MENTOR'S TIME, KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE THAT TOOK HIM YEARS TO GAIN AND WAS THEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE INTO A NEW CAREER MAKING GOOD MONEY DOING WHAT I LOVE. I think I got a damn good deal! (For the record, I did not have to pay for my apprenticeship and am very fortunate) How many people do you honestly know who would take a huge amount of their *personal* time to completely train you in their field of expertise (which could take years) and assume the liability for your actions...... for free, let alone pay you? Is this some sort of joke? This whole idea is absurd... an example of entitlement mentality to the extreme. WTF Why don't you go down to your local auto mechanic's shop and ask the boss there if he will *personally* train you to become an ASE Certified Master Tech...for free. When he catches his breath from laughing, tell him you want him to pay you, too. Let me know how that works out for ya.

*I did pay over $30,000 to go to art school. That's not a typo, that says "thirty-thousand dollars". (major: illustration, minor: graphic design) ... I wouldn't be bitching about apprentices not being paid if I were you.

sounds to me like people want everything handed to em.... i slaved my ass off to prove i was truly dedicated to this industry. worked 40 hours a week plus another 40 at the shop. 7 days a week. no pay- no tip outs. now - its been 13 years since those days- but ill tell ya what- it separates the dedicated from the deadbeats. our jobs are something people climbing social ladders would kill for and thats not the right reason to be in my industry. forget pay- pay with your soul and prove you want this!

"sounds to me like people want everything handed to em.... i slaved my ass off to prove i was truly dedicated to this industry. worked 40 hours a week plus another 40 at the shop. 7 days a week. no pay- no tip outs. now - its been 13 years since those days- but ill tell ya what- it separates the dedicated from the deadbeats. our jobs are something people climbing social ladders would kill for and thats not the right reason to be in my industry. forget pay- pay with your soul and prove you want this!" this is what it's all about. separating the dedicated from the deadbeats.

I don't think apprentices should be getting paid. I just found a person to apprentice under, and was very lucky. I was running around the city networking with artists like crazy. But the issue was they didn't know me from the next guy on the street, so in trade they wanted good money ($3000-$8000) and two years out of me to compensate. I did not have that kind of money on hand. I started giving up after checking some of these dudes reps out. The person I work under now I met at a party. I heard he was a really good artist, and started bugging him with questions about how to go about getting an apprenticeship. He straight up said, don't even bother a guy unless I had all the cash up front and some art to show for. He straight up told me that most tattoo artists were scratchers who had to learn all over again. I told him i was going to scratch until I could figure it out proper if i couldn't find an apprenticeship. He asked me what was I going to use. I said any machine that wasn't garbage I could find. He said if you are going to do it, then do it right. He asked me how much cash I had. I told him 500, he laughed. I didn't see him for a while. During this time he talked to a couple friends of mine and heard I was a good graf artist and found out I had been in art school for 4 years at a really good private institution, and also heard that I had learned to scratch of a friend of his who was a working apprentice. I went to his shop and got some work off of him, and started coming in and kicking it and watching them all work. I was asking a lot of questions, bugging all the artists. I offered to buy lunch. Took out trash without asking. Scrubbed tubes randomly, till finally they were just frustrated with me and gave me set hours to come in. I gave them $500. Which they ended up spending on art supplies for me anyway. He told me that I would earn my machines buy using his for walk ins and giving him all the tips I made. Everything is going in a jar. I am buying my machines piece by piece, and I have to put all together when I get all the parts (soon hopefully). So basically I have a free apprenticeship- which I am grateful for. My only deal is I have to work for them for a year when I am done learning. He told me he thinks he'll have me tattooing in about four months. He said I could pay my dues by giving him free work rather than have me sitting around for 2 years. I could not see them paying me for what they are doing for me. Mostly because really I am probably slowing them down with all my questions and them having to repeat things for me that they already know. I do whatever I can to pay my way... but lunch, bring in some weed or beer for after work, set up and breakdown, clean the shop- anything they ask I am happy to do!

I don't think apprentices should be getting paid. I just found a person to apprentice under, and was very lucky. I was running around the city networking with artists like crazy. But the issue was they didn't know me from the next guy on the street, so in trade they wanted good money ($3000-$8000) and two years out of me to compensate. I did not have that kind of money on hand. I started giving up after checking some of these dudes reps out. The person I work under now I met at a party. I heard he was a really good artist, and started bugging him with questions about how to go about getting an apprenticeship. He straight up said, don't even bother a guy unless I had all the cash up front and some art to show for. He straight up told me that most tattoo artists were scratchers who had to learn all over again. I told him i was going to scratch until I could figure it out proper if i couldn't find an apprenticeship. He asked me what was I going to use. I said any machine that wasn't garbage I could find. He said if you are going to do it, then do it right. He asked me how much cash I had. I told him 500, he laughed. I didn't see him for a while. During this time he talked to a couple friends of mine and heard I was a good graf artist and found out I had been in art school for 4 years at a really good private institution, and also heard that I had learned to scratch of a friend of his who was a working apprentice. I went to his shop and got some work off of him, and started coming in and kicking it and watching them all work. I was asking a lot of questions, bugging all the artists. I offered to buy lunch. Took out trash without asking. Scrubbed tubes randomly, till finally they were just frustrated with me and gave me set hours to come in. I gave them $500. Which they ended up spending on art supplies for me anyway. He told me that I would earn my machines buy using his for walk ins and giving him all the tips I made. Everything is going in a jar. I am buying my machines piece by piece, and I have to put all together when I get all the parts (soon hopefully). So basically I have a free apprenticeship- which I am grateful for. My only deal is I have to work for them for a year when I am done learning. He told me he thinks he'll have me tattooing in about four months. He said I could pay my dues by giving him free work rather than have me sitting around for 2 years. I could not see them paying me for what they are doing for me. Mostly because really I am probably slowing them down with all my questions and them having to repeat things for me that they already know. I do whatever I can to pay my way... but lunch, bring in some weed or beer for after work, set up and breakdown, clean the shop- anything they ask I am happy to do!

So let me get this right - Your "mentor" allows you to tattoo the walk ins - yet he hasn't taught you anything yet - (you obviously can't tattoo or you wouldn't be looking for an apprenticeship)- and you give him all the money? Oh and bring in weed too? Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice, you're a muppet... he's taking the piss out of you, grow some balls and tell him to piss off. This is the exact reason the tattoo industry should be government legislated.

Yeah, I have gotten to the point where I do small half dollar sized pieces. My line work is nice, clean and I do even solid shading. I'm working on my gradients. Sometimes I have to do a touch up because I work light. I'd rather touch them up because of my light work than scar them due to not packing correctly. I even get a few repeats. Don't hate. And yes, I bring in weed sometimes, because it's a nice gesture for those who smoke- not cause I'm getting taken for a ride. A lot of you dudes on here are just little haters. I don't trip on it though. I'm learning the art, working at my pace and moving forward when my mentor thinks I'm ready. Yes, I give him half of my cash. $25 for a piece from an apprentice and I keep the tip (which I put in the jar). I have no qualms about it. I could have payed up 8000k at another shop and sat around for two years "paying dues"- that's what I call getting the piss taken out of you haha. He's hella chill about everything except for cross contamination. He grills constantly. He's militant about it. Kind of annoying.

PS... I had tattooed in jail for several years, but got an apprenticeship because the machines where way different than the guns, and I had a lot of bad habits that I needed to correct even though my work has always been nice. I really wanted to work in a shop, and I knew that in order to do so, I wasn't going to walk in with jail on my resume. Quit hating on a dude for correcting his wrongs.

Nobody's hating on you for "trying to correct your wrongs". The way you talk, including your pretty "good" work and just the mere suggestion of weed in your work environment appears that you lack sincerity and gives the reader the impression that you are not taking this seriously. It's unprofessional and child like. Of course what you do in your spare time is entirely up to you. Post your work.

I don't see what's childish about my post at all- you don't see me using profanity, calling names or flaming. I don't even smoke weed myself tbh. I've never seen them smoke at work, it's an environment where anybody including people with children could walk in and feel comfortable. But I have seen other shops where dudes let clients drink and smoke and all sorts of ish that I wouldn't let fly in my shop if I owned one... simply because i think it would get in the way of getting a descent job done. I don't get your trip. You act like you or your buddies getting drunk after work is any more acceptable than a guy smoking after work. Haha. Anyways, I have a nice piece on a friend that is healing up that I'll post up pics of in a bit. Please try to understand that I am dong my best to do my art in a correct manner that is acceptable to the rest of the tattoo community. I didn't come here to flame and argue with people. I came to give an opinion on apprenticing, since it is about the only thing I can really speak on. I don't sit here and give opinions on things I don't know about such as products, techniques etc. The subject was about getting paid to learn. I simply feel that should not be the case, as I feel that I am lucky to have gotten my current apprenticeship on a lucky note and am grateful. Thanks for your time.

PS @ Richard, sorry if using "pretty good" was not good enough of an adjective for you. Was it not descriptive enough for you? A little too crude? Too broad? The lines are clean, not shaky or crooked, not fat in some parts and thin in others. Pretty dern good! Please let me know if there is a secret tattoo artist guild adjective list of words I should refer to when posting that don't make me sound childish or poser-ish. Maybe I should have asked my "mentor" these questions before posting? I read a lot of threads on here, and it's kind of embarrassing to know I am going to be associated with bone pickers, know-it-alls, and above-it-alls. I do understand giving newbies a tough time and straightening them out to a healthy extent, but I praise other when I see or hear of them moving the right direction. Luckily I have dealt with way worse mentalities on confined areas for long stretches of time. Cakewalk.

Im searching for a tattoo apprenticeship and it would be a fkn dream to get paid too,after all,ppl hafta live right? but this isnt like any other "business" that just anyone can learn,people sometimes think it is,thats why there are so many fkn scratchers in the world,like the fkn asshole that messed up my back and still fkn charged me for it, cuz he was in it for the money,not like the poor fucker who scraped his way in an apprenticeship for 4-5 years,cleanin toilets and fetching lunch,no,he is in it for the love of the art,the buzz of that machine and the smell of the studio when he walkis in every morning,the guy that did a tattoo on my leg that made me so excited i nearly fukin came...pardon the rudeness... its not a fkn trade,i dont think so anyway,its art,and its so hard to get a break that any one who does land an apprenticeship should be damn thankfull that the artist is taking time from his/her life to train you when they dnt have to. fkn suck it up,the world sucks,lik ass for a cuple years,and then go out into the world with an amazing skill and make people happy,see the world and experience things you would never have experienced otherwise,and the only person you can thank for that oppertunity is the "greedy old prick" that wouldnt pay you for the knowlege he taught you. so shut the fuk up...

Regarding the starting post, I can say that apprentice should be pay once the start doing fairly simple tattoos clean. In no event I think an apprentice on top of getting education for free should on top of that get paid upon start. To me that is ridiculous. I do consider that it should be the other way around. Went I graduated from graphic design school I have to pay for my education out of my own pocket. I was interested in the craft not the school in having me as a student. You can compare it to when established artists pay to go to great seminars. Some seminars are free, some you have to pay to be in. This days a lot f people want things for granted, and i you find a great mentor that is willing to teach you, you are a lucky person. Great apprenticeships are as hard to locate as to find great apprentices that deserve to be trained. Gaston - FK Irons

I wish I could go back and edit the typos/ grammar errors. :(

Gaston what you say makes a lot of sense, however, in the traditional sense of the word "apprentices" ARE paid. A lot of people are confusing a college (or university) education with an apprenticeship which are completely different things. A lot of the reason why "scrathchers" even exist is because there is no "formal" training period, or "apprenticesship", for tattooing - (please, before anybody jumps in, see the word "formal"). At least half of street shops are not particularly good, making it even harder for a would-be-tattooist to break into the industry. They have no right being there, but are able to be so because there is no governing body to represent standards. THEN on top of that the tattoo industry are the first people to complain about the problem of sub-standard tattooists, or "scratchers"?! Why oh why can just anybody open a shop? It's ludicrous. Yet nobody seems to be able to see the bigger picture. The tattoo industry is a victim of it's own doing!!

If you're a scratcher, I wouldn't be complaining that there is lax regulation/standards/lack of "formal training" in the industry if I were you. If it weren't for the lax standards, 95% of aspiring "scratchers" and "apprentices" would NEVER get a chance because 95% of them aren't good enough IMO. I have NEVER seen someone who is highly motivated & committed and who does *truly absolutely fantastic art* have trouble landing an apprenticeship (usually free). If someone has trouble finding a good apprenticeship, the fault lies somewhere within *themselves*, not the industry. It means that in some way, they really AREN'T "good enough" (no matter how much their friends tell them their art is "teh awesome-ist dude!"). The truth can be hard to swallow sometimes. There is no reason to pay someone to learn, unless the teacher will benefit greatly from it in the long run, which is rarely the case in this industry. Those who advocate paying apprentices answer me this: "What is the benefit FOR THE TEACHER ...?" In other words, what exactly would the teacher gain from paying an apprentice to learn?

I have also never seen an excellent artist not find an opportunity. There are a ton of hack shops not worth apprenticing at. Tons! As far as paying an apprentice, its just silly. Really, like, teaching someone slows down the tattooing proccess and studio quite a bit, anyone who is advocating for artists and owners to pay an apprentice really has very little working knowledge of a quality studio and artists, in my opinion.

Apprentices in ALL other trades get paid, why is it seen as crazy for this trade? (Albeit not a lot granted). Fuck you'd have some poor fucker work for you for free?? You're the crazy ones, how about gas money to even get to work? What about a nominal amount for food, clothes etc, let alone health care and all the rest of it. That's just life and the tattoo industry is behind the times. I guess you'd HAVE to be a teenager still living at home to be able to do that?! Jeeeeeez anybody can work for free, shame on you if you honestly would exploit somebody like that. You can have your opinion and I can have mine and we'll have to agree to disagree. One thing we DO agree on is that there are WAY too many hack shops, the difference being I think there should be something in place to stop this... You just don't see that this happens because of the tattoo industries "self regulation"...

Well if you wanna get all uppity about verbage and other industries. 1. Apprenticeship Ap*pren"tice*ship\, n. 1. The service or condition of an apprentice; the state in which a person is gaining instruction in a trade or art, under legal agreement. Please note the definition does not entail anything about getting paid. 2. Here's a few snippets of items I found online, by simply googling "unpaid apprenticeships" 2A.The typical steps to becoming a professional recording engineer became: hobbyist/amateur recordist some formal sound engineering education (unpaid) apprenticeship or internship with master mentor assistant engineer position 2B. Insurance company outlining the many responsibilities of unpaid apprentices: http://www.nibtt.co.tt/employer/employer.htm#ObEmp 2C. Dressmaking: http://books.google.com/books?id=BOpCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=unpaid+apprenticeship&source=bl&ots=iyBYJSQ7Gg&sig=QtOFWh07pmSgDSMLHp4fyZ5k-e0&hl=en&ei=jfcqStb7CcXJtgegga3JBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6 2D. Also if you search "unpaid apprenticeship craigslist" you'll find over 3,500 results. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=unpaid+apprenticeship+craigslist&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq= So whether or not people agree or disagree that tattoo apprentices should be paid, I believe those points without a doubt have to eliminate your adamant argument that "ALL" apprenticeships other than tattooing are paid.

Mary I can tell you are young by your prose. It is an absolute FACT that most apprentices in other trades are paid, for the love of christ don't pretend they don't - as you are being so anally retentive I've give you the following examples; Electrician, plumber, bricklayer, drywall, mechanic, roofer, acoustic installer,air conditioning technician, refrigeration mechanic, fireman, policeman, painting and decorating, upholsterer, barber, boilermaker, joiner, cosmetologist, elevator mechanic, plasterer, lineman, scaffolder, tiling, sheet metal worker and welder. I think that should be enough to emphasize the point being made. Like it or not, nearly ALL apprentices in other trades ARE paid, FACT NOT FICTION. It's like trying to get blood from a stone. Why oh why do you insist on disagreeing with this when you are absolutely, totally and utterly wrong?? This is why we're so far behind the German's and the Japanese...

We're behind economically because we dropped tariffs and sent jobs overseas for the benefit of multinational corporations. We also dont educate our population to give tax breaks and bail outs to the riches CEOs. Any talented artist who gets great tattoos will become a tattooer if they work hard enough. A tattoo apprentice cleaning the tubes does not generate income the way a plumbing apprentice does on the job. Again, if you think there is enough money generated by the work of a tattoo apprentice to create enough to pay them, it means that YOU dont know what you are talking about. sorry, dems be the facts.

I never disagreed that a lot if not the majority of trades do pay for apprentices, but you first approached your argument saying that tattooing was the only, solitary, singular trade that doesn't pay. I was just pointing out the fact that there are quite a few other trades that do not pay as well. So you can tell I'm young? Well I can tell you're a douche bag because you can't handle the fact I'm developing factually based counter arguments that disprove statements like "ALL apprentices are paid," and you obviously can't stand that you may not be 100% correct.

I never disagreed that a lot if not the majority of trades do pay for apprentices, but you first approached your argument saying that tattooing was the only, solitary, singular trade that doesn't pay. I was just pointing out the fact that there are quite a few other trades that do not pay as well. So you can tell I'm young? Well I can tell you're a douche bag because you can't handle the fact I'm developing factually based counter arguments that disprove statements like "ALL apprentices are paid," and you obviously can't stand that you may not be 100% correct.

My rents due ,I have no food, the electrics about to get turned off. I guess I'll be the best qualified tattoo artist that lives under a bridge by the time I finish my apprenticeship. The industry is it's own worst enemy. No pay makes the scratches you all hate!!! If there was a national institute of tattoo artist there would be better tattoo artists grants for both employee and employer! Also at least apprentices would have a chance of housing and council tax benefit. Ps if your not paid do not work your only there to learn If your mentor says you have to clean and answer phones grass him to the authorities as unpaid work is illegal there is a national minimum wage that applies if your working not just training.