Food for Thought

While I do not dispute the wisdom of waiting years, picking the perfect artist to do that large masterpiece and being prepared to lay out some serious cash and/or be on someone's waiting list for months, I am honestly wondering just what part of the real, overall Tattoo clientel do you really think that applies to. I've got over 40 years 'in the trenches' so to speak and I know from expierence that a vast majority of the business is not those 'type' of tattoos nor on those type folks. Don't get me wrong, I'm seeing work come out of some of the artist you refer to on this site and I think a lot of it is fucking fantastic, work I couldn't even have imagined seeing in the skin until fairly recently. As an artist, I'm blown away by some of it, the depths, color ranges and use, the 'airbrush' look- just the sheer artistry I guess would be the simpliest way I could state it. A lot of it I never even saw before I stumbled across this site many months ago and I've visited the websites for most, if not all listed artist and again, some of it is simply amazing. I do wonder how some of it is going to hold out over the years as I know what time (and sun light) can do to a tattoo but that's sort of a seperate issue. I realized awhile back that this is/was not a website devoted to everyday tattooing, it's rather obvious after reading just a few post, which is fine, I have never really had a problem with that. I realize and respect the fact that aside from Gabe having every right to have any kind of website he cares to have about Tattoos as well as the right of people to get whatever kind/style Tattoo done. I also respect the right of an artist to decide whatever price he has on his art, naturally that certainly includes Body Art, which is what I personally think of the 'better' quality of some tattoos. However, I've seen work I honestly think is not 'all that', many I could duplicate, I sincerely believe I could/would do 'justice to but the sad truth is, I've never even had but a small handful of folks ever even ASK about that and the point is most of my clientel, what I suspect the majority of the tattoo trade is, don't want (can't appreciate?) that 'kind' of tattoo nor could they afford it and they damn sure ain't going to WAIT for it. And folks, this is coming from someone with 24 years expierence in OWNING/RUNNING a Tattoo Studio. I have a hard enough time operating my BY APPOINTMENT only Studio, constantly 'lose' business/money because I chose not to do 'walk-ins' (I see too many regets over too many years for that) and I don't stay booked anymore and, dammit, I'm pretty good and have a great local rep. While I do not claim to be as good as some of the 'big name' artist, I honestly believe I could do much of it as well with a little practice and a little insight as to their technigue. I'm not 'ego tripping' I've seen and absorbed a lot in my years and I really am an artist, I really can draw and I'm pretty adapt at learning, even for an old fart-and most of that stems, I believe, because I truly enjoy what I do, have loved and appreciated ART almost all my life. But, I still wouldn't have the clients seeking that, which gets back to my main point (sorry if I'm rambling, but I do have a point, honestly) which, again is that those clients do not make up the majority and thought perhaps it was time to bring that FACT up. It is also my personally belief a LOT of the 'big names' got 'big' by alot of exposure, by going around on convention tours, often by flooding the trade mags with photos of their work and/or some serious outlay of cash for some darned good advertising, which is fine, if you can afford it and/or your life allows you that option. But I, for one, know there are a LOT of very talented artist all over that are very good (admittedly, not as good as 'some' but still definitely above 'average' ) which I rarely, if ever hear or read about. Sometimes I kinda wonder if it's become more a matter of who can get enough backing or who is rich enough to become a 'big name' in Tattooing nowadays and it's NOT just sour grapes I assure you. I guess i just feel the need to express this and perhaps make people think about it and definitely know you do not have to pay big bucks to some big name to get a really good tattoo nor do you need to wait months either...Doc

Don't wanna sound like Donald Trump, but business is business. Doesn't matter if you're the greatest butcher/baker/candlestick maker/tattooist in the history of mankind, if no one knows about you, no one's gonna come looking for you...and that's when the whole business drive & acumen thing becomes important. If you wanna be rich & famous, tattooing is like any other creative/artistic business. Promotion Promotion Promotion! Position Position Position!

YoJimbo, you are, of course, correct but as an old timer who remembers 'back when' most of a artist business was 'word of mouth' (and when I don't even know where you would have advertized, before Tattoo mags, conventions and the 'net) I think it sad that even tattooing has got to this in that department. I never got 'into' this for the money and tattooing makes a lot more than it did 'back then' by far but art has always had it's 'starving artist' so I guess I can understand, especially since it has become far more of a 'business' and, as in any other business, it takes money to make money. But I still wanted to make the point that there are some very good 'unknowns' out here and even the 'big names' where 'no body special' at some time and most likely did not charge as much or have any 'waiting list' or convention tours' to work around. I'd also like to point out that good advertizement does not automatically meant good tattoos and would hope people 'shop' carefully and with some 'fore knowledge'. I've seen more than my share of substandard work come out of some of these well advertized places and know many of them went there because the ads made them sound great. I've also seen write-ups in Tattoo Mags that made the 'artist' sound great, only to have the pictures of their work make me wonder why the work did not match the 'hype article' Bear in mind, advertizing is meant to sell or promote a product/service for a client, not be 'honest' or state the truth nor does the advertizer check the validity of the 'claims', like too many other things, it's about the money and I'm seeing more and more that makes me realize it is certainly becoming a bigger part of the Tattoo World. Still, I do hope people understood my original post and the points I tried to make...Doc

Doc, I gotta say that it's the way of the world. I sympathise with you, but we've seen the same thing happen in any number of cottage industries which suddenly became popular...don't even get me started on the Surf Industry and what it's done to surfboard manufacturing practices. And I don't have the time or patience or evangelical zeal to take each person aside and deprogram them...so I'm just gonna let it go and treat my custom shaper or tattooist or whatever with the respect he deserves and hopefully that will be reciprocated.

YoJimbo, you're right and personally. I think that's part of the problem, seems like once anything goes 'mainstream' and becomes popular then it starts drawing some of the people who are into it for the money more than the craft and the basically uninformed public usually doesn't know any better. Like you said, it is the way of the world, sad but true...Doc

Hey Doc, don't get so blue. There is always hope, y'know? Twenty years ago, I would've taken anybody's money against the Berlin Wall coming down and called them fools for it...

Ok, Im not editing this down, sorry for the bad spelling/grammar! Doc says While I do not dispute the wisdom of waiting years, picking the perfect artist to do that large masterpiece and being prepared to lay out some serious cash and/or be on someone's waiting list for months, I am honestly wondering just what part of the real, overall Tattoo clientel do you really think that applies to A pretty small portion overall I would imagine. I came into this culture from the other end, after getting some bad tattoos, I sought after the best I could find. REalized quickly there was no way in hell I could afford the tattoos I wanted, and traded for computer work (TattooNOW exists because of lack of funds! Lucky for me the computer work brought in many paying clients who would travel for custom work, and the studio grew to become a powerhouse of custom tattoo artists in part because of the massive amount of traffic the website attracted (Darkside Tattoo for those who remember). So my "growing up" experiences in the tattoo industry have been skewed, while I know about street shops, and walk ins, and what not, I have always been about promoting what I care about, custom tattoos. To answer the question shortlike, that description applies to 80% of the clients I talk to. Don't get me wrong, I'm seeing work come out of some of the artist you refer to on this site and I think a lot of it is fucking fantastic, work I couldn't even have imagined seeing in the skin until fairly recently. Man, I cant believe the work thats is being produced thesedays, truely inspiring. While this quality may be the exception tot he rule, the next generations of artists will build off what is being done today to create even more wonderful works of art. Put your seatbelts on people, things are gonna get crazy (if WWIII doesnt squash some of the progress...) I realized awhile back that this [site] is/was not a website devoted to everyday tattooing After working with many many clients I realize that the majority of tattooing is not custom, but after Im hustling the hell out of someone for a while the artists clientel tends to shift in that direction it seems. I dunno, I could be focusing on flash designs cause thats what the public is looking for, but Id rather focus on what I care about, high quality custom tattooing... We promote plenty of "working class" tattoo artists too... ... the sad truth is, I've never even had but a small handful of folks ever even ASK about that and the point is most of my clientel, what I suspect the majority of the tattoo trade is, don't want (can't appreciate?) that 'kind' of tattoo nor could they afford it and they damn sure ain't going to WAIT for it. I agree, from my perspective I am asked all the time. The public will get what you present to them. If you want to do custom work and no flash, then dont show them any flash. If you want to do horror portraits, then show the public horror portraits. If you need to do both, get two books together and when a "smart" client walks in, show them the "sacred" custom book. There are many ways to steer the public towards custom tattoos, but given the nature of tattooing it is always a compromise with the customer... Our studio is very very young (9 months old!) but we are doing ok with only one book of flash. Mike has a ton of sketches and photos and reference books in the front room, plenty of ideas for people... with the internet everything is at our fingertips. The client may not know when they walk in (though many do) but they know right quick that whatever they get tattooed will be drawn by the artist doing the work. While I do not claim to be as good as some of the 'big name' artist, I honestly believe I could do much of it as well with a little practice and a little insight as to their technigue... I bet you could! The artists I see progress most in their art are the open minded ones who travel to conventions, work guest spots, and/or are working with artists "better" than they are at their home studio. You have the open mind part, maybe its worth checking out these young uns in action! But, I still wouldn't have the clients seeking that, which gets back to my main point (sorry if I'm rambling, but I do have a point, honestly) which, again is that those clients do not make up the majority and thought perhaps it was time to bring that FACT up. They arent the majority, but you know full well how word of mouth spreads and how unoriginal people can be. When you do a half dozen to dozen kick ass custom tattoos, then those clients friends and friends friends will slowly start to ask for custom work. Put those kick ass cusotm tattoos online in front of a lot of eyeballs, and then a few more come in. It takes time, but Ive seen it happen time and time again... It is also my personally belief a LOT of the 'big names' got 'big' by alot of exposure, by going around on convention tours, often by flooding the trade mags with photos of their work and/or some serious outlay of cash for some darned good advertising, which is fine, if you can afford it and/or your life allows you that option. While I am sure this happens (and i know examples) I dont know if it is a LOT. Conventions do help of course, both in getting your work out there (if its good) and by watching, learning, and networking (theres nothing diningenious about that!), and flooding the trade magazines with photos is something any artist could do for free. Good advertising, yes, advertising obviously helps and it is expensive, so either you have startup cash or your business is doing well so you can afford it. I lean on websites cause its the biggest bang for you buck and, well, Im a geek. I dont think any of the big names I know got their clientel from spending lots of money advertising, indeed many of them barely send photos in to magazines, and I tend to be their first foray into the Internet (or first real entry). When your work is hot shit, you dont need any of that, all you need to do is be a pretty nice person and do good work... I guess i just feel the need to express this and perhaps make people think about it and definitely know you do not have to pay big bucks to some big name to get a really good tattoo nor do you need to wait months either Many of the big names that come through Off the Map charge $100 an hour! Their waiting lists back home are long(its easier to get appointments at guest spots). Many of the artists on this site are building their clientel so there arent long waits (I hope to change that!) and of course you are 100% correct, there are plenty of artists out there in the world that are great and unknown and there you go! yojimbo says: Don't wanna sound like Donald Trump, but business is business. Doesn't matter if you're the greatest butcher/baker/candlestick maker/tattooist in the history of mankind, if no one knows about you, no one's gonna come looking for you...and that's when the whole business drive & acumen thing becomes important. If you wanna be rich & famous, tattooing is like any other creative/artistic business. Promotion Promotion Promotion! Position Position Position! Ack, puke! Yes, tattooing is a business, but one beauty of tattooing is you dont need to be a donald trump cut-through businessperson to succeed (or get rich and famous). An understanding of business and quality work brings success almost every time. Marketing and promotion helps a ton, but if you do good work you can be VERY responsible about your marketing to see the results. that is, if your good you dont need to shove it down peoples throughts... Just let em know you exist. As Doc says, word of mouth is the best way. If that works, sending work into magazines, web promotion, and a little street team action should be all you need... doc says YoJimbo, you are, of course, correct but as an old timer who remembers 'back when' most of a artist business was 'word of mouth' (and when I don't even know where you would have advertized, before Tattoo mags, conventions and the 'net) I think it sad that even tattooing has got to this in that department Well, the industry is getting larger and there are more sharks. No doubt. And those with big money who try to saturate the market. There is a big public out there, and enough room for everyone to play.... Quality tattoos wins out over bad tattoos marketed well in the long run... as in any other business, it takes money to make money One of the things I love the most about htis art is that you do NOT need to come from money to generate it. Talent and drive (and the zillion other factors) will overcome the disadvantage of not having money. I LOVE that about the tattoo industry. Bear in mind, advertizing is meant to sell or promote a product/service for a client, not be 'honest' or state the truth nor does the advertizer check the validity of the 'claims', As a moral business geek it really pisses me off that companies dont mind stretching the truth in thier advertising. Indeed, it makes business sense to always tell the truth about your product, never say anything that isnt real easy and simple to back up. Underpromise and overdeliver is the best practice. I would say that advertising is meant to sell a product WITH the truth. YoJimbo, you're right and personally. I think that's part of the problem, seems like once anything goes 'mainstream' and becomes popular then it starts drawing some of the people who are into it for the money more than the craft and the basically uninformed public usually doesn't know any better. Like you said, it is the way of the world, sad but true...Doc I agree, and this is a cultural problem.

All that is easy for a Broker to Post, Maybe thats how you can survive John take on Gabes Role in this Industry. Just a thought :)

yep, its true. what I do is easy!

Gabe, first of all,I'd like to thank you for taking the time to respond to my rather long and somewhat 'involved' post. Secondly, I hope you understood that what I said about advertisements was not directed at you personally, it was not meant THAT way and I think/hope you understood that. We both know not all advertisers are 'moral business people' and those are the ones I have 'problems' with and have had a somewhat negitive effect onTattooing overall, IMO. I don't think I'm going to respond 'line by line' to your post, I think you did a pretty good job of answering my questions overall and would have to say I agree with most of what you stated and don't see any real point in belaboring the point. But I do want to address 'While I do not claim to be as good as some of the 'big name' artist, I honestly believe I could do much of it as well with a little practice and a little insight as to their technigue... I bet you could! The artists I see progress most in their art are the open minded ones who travel to conventions, work guest spots, and/or are working with artists "better" than they are at their home studio. You have the open mind part, maybe its worth checking out these young uns in action!' Thanks for the props, Gabe, I mean that. And, of course you are definitely right, watching 'better' artist is indeed the answer and I know it, I am/have been trying to get to good conventions and realize the fact that my 'commitments' that make that difficult are my own 'problem' and something I simply have to 'deal with' I'd love to see some of these 'young uns' in action, aside from the part of learning their techiques, I love watching a beautiful tattoo 'happen' and I trust you know what I mean there. Again, thanks for taking the time to respond and for this forum, I honestly do believe you are one of the people who are 'good' for the profession and certainly believe forums/information like most of what gets posted here really does help. Keep up the good work and I certainly wish you success with Off The Map, I think you've 'earned it'...Doc

Just to add to the post put up while I was trying to put my previous post together... Josey, as to your 'All that is easy for a Broker to Post, Maybe thats how you can survive John take on Gabes Role in this Industry. Just a thought :) Josey, I am a Tattoo Artist, have been for a very long time and love it far too much to ever do anything else, besides, it's rather obvious you and I do not have the same views. As to your reply to that post, Gabe,' yep, its true. what I do is easy!', I'm guessing that was a sarcastic reply to a sarcastic remark but I still don't believe I'd want your job, nor do I think it's 'easy', I'll stick to tattooing...Doc

To me, there's been a benifit to mainstreaming tattooing, oh I know I'm going to be pelted with rubbish for saying that! But it's true to an extent. I've never felt comfortable in any of the street shops I've been in because I've always felt I was being intimidated or pressured. Granted, it was only 4-5 shops, but after awhile I just got so uncomfortable with all of it I put it out of my mind for a number of years. It was only out of researching a number of people, and talking to them that I could handle the idea of someone tattooing me actually being kind to me, which seems like a silly idea I know, but it was important. Because of some of the mainstreaming of tattooing, it gave me more avenues to research into than just being glared at angrily at some shop I walked into. Coming from a literature perspective, there's nothing that I hate more than Oprah. That's right, the big O (coming at'cha!). She has in so many ways ruined and belittled the reading experience with her crappy crappy-ass book club. Sometimes by picking crappy books, sometimes by lowering everything to the lowest crappy-crap demoniation for mass consumption. But the reality of the situation is, is that if you have a book on her show, you're guranteed millions of dollars. So, the whole of that argument is, I think advertisement, networking, all of that's fine, I think they're reasonable and effective tools for anyone who wants to succeed in business. But when you feel like you're starting to become Oprah; women in their mid 30's to late 60's follow you arround in pastel sweater sets and demand literary Truth (could you really believe that Million Little Pieces crap? Who cares, it's a good book!) then man, you've gone too far. (As a sidenote, I haven't seen anyone reach Oprah-esque power yet, so I think everyone's just fine)

So we're agreed that the dumbing-down, easy-consumption syndrome isn't limited to the arena of tattoos, but is a broad social phenomenon?

ohhhhhh yeah, and not limeted to any one country huh?

Yep! Take for instance Bollywood, which really turns out some pretty neat films (I'm totally serious, they kick ass) but promotes the idea of fair-skinned, light-eyed actors and actresses as the culturally percieved height of Indian beauty. So what happens? Lots of darker skinned beautiful women in India think they aren't good enough and work extra hard to lighten their skin and wear contacts to make their eyes appear lighter. That's when marketing, mass-advertisement and mass-media really become harmful. I don't think tattooing in any sense has reached that echelon, nor will it ever simply because of the nature of tattooing itself. If a person wants to the put the time into educating themselves about ANY topic, they can make an informed desicion and come out with the result desired. To me, advertising may alert me to another option that I might consider after looking into it fully, but it isn't going to demand me to do something, not ever. Which isn't to say that huge hegemonic global corporations and syndicates aren't going to stop trying.

Gabe = Oprah

in a good way ; )

Hey! Unfair!

I withdraw my previous comment in light of your clarification. But seriously, Oprah?

Couldnt I be Jerry Springer at least? I could easily moonlight as a left wing nut job radio show host...

Hmmm...well it got a little Springerish a few weeks back, so, yeah, OK, er...How's "Gerry" suit you?

ha, no shit. As long as the chant is jerry and not gabey....