GOOD ART OF ANY KIND

To all of you guys who think your stuff is pretty good, and you post it here looking for approval from the old timers, here's the way it works and should work. First of all, Old timers, let's have a good look at your stuff. If your work is legit, then anyone posting on this site should be willing to deal with the consequences of what you have to say. Then, after we've established that these guys are definitly who they say they are, you potential inkers show them your stuff, and take your kudos or licks, but keep the emotion out of it. As far as art goes, there is a lot of subjectivity in it, that is, what I like may not at all be what someone else likes. But just because I have 15 years of experience as an artist does not mean that your idea is bad. And if I tell you it is, then you just have to realize that is my opinion, and it's subjective. No harm, no foul. BUT... there is an awful lot to be said for the elements of design work, and art work of any kind, not just tattoos. That is to say that there are a lot of factors that go into wether something is a good drawing (or design) or not. It has a lot to do with consistent and matching line weight, symmetry or asymmetrical balance, polish, color balance, overall weight, flow and professionalism. I think most of the time when the old timers tell you guys you have some work to do, that's what they are saying. Hit the books. Take some art classes. LEARN about what makes well constructed artwork. Just because somebody told you you can draw, that's not all there is to it. That's great, and maybe you have some TALENT (which is what that comment is about) but you still have to learn. In other words, just because I may have some talent to be a Surgeon doesn't mean that's enough to get it right. Know what I mean? So if you post here, and you get a comment you don't like, or get your feelings a little hurt, try to look at what the artists are telling you, not what your ego is telling you, that's all. Not a biggie. If you agree that the guys on the site have something to offer, that is you agree after seeing their work that they have something to say, then if you really care, be willing to listen to their feedback. And artists, if you are going to give somebody feedback, try to give them some constructive and specific guidelines that they can improve by... that'll help eliminate the "This sucks....No it doesn't, my friends brother says it's great" mentality. Peace, Al

Daddy Rose, naturally I agree with what you said, and as one of the old timers I think you may have been referering to, I also agree that it would only be fair to post some of our own work to 'qualify' our comments. I even offered to do just that in one of my recent post dealing with this same issue. Fair is afterall fair, anyone can take cheap shots and they indeed should be able to back it up to be taken seriously. I've already started, using MySpace and while I have figured out how to post pictures on it (I think) and have plenty to use before I put a link to it could someone instruct me on how to change the generic background to something with a bit more class? I found one I like but haven't a clue as to how to actually change it? I have the code but have no idea of where to put it. The only reason I signed up for it was to access some of the stuff folks refer to but if I'm gonna use it to post drawings/photos of my work, well I'd like to spruce it up a bit first, so any pointers would be appreciated...Doc

Hey Doc, what's your myspace? Would love to check it out... I don't know on the backrounds. There is some myspace design advice in the account info, but Like Theval did it, so I bet she could tell us... I'd just like to have a black backround with white text at least.... Also, yeah, how can I get a look at that last guy's stuff? I'd love to know what some of these guys are holding up to you guys...

Daddy Rose, as soon as I get my MySpace page together I'll be happy to post it, once I get some drawings/tattoos up, plan on working on it when I can, working around running my studio, doing the custom artwork , taking care of my son , etc., but I will get it up as soon as possible. Got alot of stuff I can scan and post. Theval, if ya read this, give me some info on how to class up my Myspace, I looked thru the stuff, but can't get the background to change, want to class it up a bit. Anyone with any good clues, help an old guy out, okay? Email me or post it here...Doc

Daddy Rose, sent ya the drawings 'in question', let me know what YOU think...Doc

And I ..who it seems MOST of the attacks have been aimed towards will have a bunch more stuff on my myspace site as well as a whole new website soon by a badass site firm..."Babylon Grafix"...Had to give enm a little plug there sorry!! So ...see ya in the funny papers!!

Daddy Rose, the email I sent came back as 'undeliverable' so here's that link:http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bowerbrallar/album?.dir=/77bere2&.src=ph&.tok=phw8kXFBlL5fQF8x check it out and give me/us your opinion, was I being too harsh or just honest...Doc

To a large percentage of people their "artwork"is great...we have seen it over and over and we have found over the past year that even when we try to "be nice" its almost always taken as a personal insult...I do not have the time or the disposition to play nice with assholes who come on a public forum and attack, demean and disrespect the professional artists.....look at our friend from the tattoo school...we tried to be nice...tried to be helpful...what happened?....he came back with threats and personal slurs...and he was only one of many. No Doc you weren't being harsh...that person BEGGED to be slammed and I don't give a fuck what ANYONE thinks...a graduate of art school doing THAT level of work?...I don't think so...so she got slammed....how about that girl who bragged about doing her first tattoo?....remember?....she also got all crazy and called Doc names and I could go on and on...people take it personal period!! As for me well I'm tired of the whole mess...there are a handful of real artists on here and a few well informed or at least respectful regulars ...its just getting old...VERY old...I'm tired of being the "high profile" guy on here and being attacked by every fucking scratcher on the planet...What was once a pleasureable pasttime has turned into a bitch session for amateurs to take potshots at the pros....its just gettin too deep for me!!...T..

As you said Taz, some of this is getting real old, real quick but I reckon it's part of being on a public forum that anyone can post on, just not the fun or even satisfying part. But still, we get a decent amount of intelligent, real people on here so take heart in that/those and laugh at these others, as the really ARE a joke, if ya think of it (it makes it easier to cope)...Doc And I must confess, I do like exposing a phony, remember, this 'person' offered to draw up custom designs for $20. Hope nobody wizzed off their money on THAT rip.

Hey Taz especially and Doc, Remember guys, you're always going to get a lot of that bullshit from people who don't know what they are talking about, but that's just sort of the way of the world, right? Don't take it too personally Taz... it's a actually a form of compliment and respect. Every little punk in the Universe wants to knock the old guy off the top of the heap, or at least gain his respect. Been that way since the beginning of time. It was like that in Martial Arts, and it's always been like that with Art. But remember, part of the fun of the whole thing is that 1. YOU are the old guys at the top of the heap, so this gives you a chance to enjoy it, and 2. It's also human nature to want to help when you can, and that's what this is all about. The good stuff you guys do far outweighs the bullshit you guys encounter on the forum. Don't give up Taz. The place wouldn't be the same without you... case and point... you've got a huge party coming up from what I understand (it is still happening, right?) where you are bringing together a bunch of tat artists, and people from the forum, and others, and the idea was born right here! The stuff you do here can't be all bad... Now... Doc, Taz and others, time for this Old Timer to weigh in. As an award winning creative of over 15 years, my opinion on this person's work is that there is no way this person could have graduated from Art school. I would liken this stuff to some of the Junior High art class stuff I've seen at Mall shows, and in many cases, that stuff is way, way better. I don't mean to be harsh either kiddo, but Doc and Taz are right... you've got a lot of work to do. Putting any of this stuff on somebody's skin forever should be a punishable offense. Should you give up? No. Are you ready? No way.

Al...I never said ANYTHING about giving up...just that it gets old...I will be here don't worry!!!...TAzsaeg

Of course the party is a go Al...Get back in the loop pal!!!

Daddy Rose, as you may have heard, I've put up some of my custom artwork up on my MySpace (http;//www.MySpace.com/doctorjohn60 and I'd like you to take a good look and tell me what you think. I'd also like to point out I've never had a formal art lesson in my life. Again, I invitwe any comments...Doc

I popped Docs comment cherry!!!!! AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!

Taz, technically, ya didn't, the comments return a message"Sorry! an unexpected error has occurred. This error has been forwarded to MySpace's technical group. So technically, I guess I still got my cherry? Yeah, right...Doc

haha...I'm still his number one Taz ;), at least untill he figures out how to change it! lol...you'd gotta be fucking kidding me, I've been typing in the god damn image text a billion damn times >.<

By the way, I'm still waiting on some suggestions/help on how to class my MYSpace background and stuff, so if any of you know how, give an old guy some help. Found a background I liked, but when I tried to put the code in the way it said to do it, damn thing didn't work. A little HELP?..Doc

Couldn't tell ya about the background thing Doc.. I asked the same damn question the other night, lol.. as far as the stuff you have up on your myspace.. I like it.. And TAz.. most of all still luff ya.

well doc, I'm not the best, but since I constantly change my page I know the basics...just tell me what you wanna do and I'll tell ya how to do it. As far as the background goes...most of the codes you'll just stick in the "about me" section, just make sure it's not connected to your about me text...and if you put in a code and it doesn't work, probably means that somewhere in the code there's a fuck up...and maybe just message me via myspace until game has this image text stuff fixed.

Hey Tazo, I know you wont give up,you've been around the block once or twice. I'm sure.This will pass,these jagoffs don't have the attention span to stick around long.They'll just have to learn the secrete of tattooing on another forum.All you artist no who you are don't let the wannabees get to you.I don't post so much because I'm always stoned (Sorry different thread,can't help myself sometimes!) Actually I'm usually in my dongeon building tattoo machines because of that H8TR TAz. It just would'nt be same without the regulars around here. Ok enough pickle smoochin,I gotta get back to work.

i like how the assholes justify themselves by writing epic novels on how they are righteous in being pricks. old farts.

Oh yes I did Doc!! and its there in your comments...you just don't see it!! HA HA HA HA HA !!! I got Docs Cherry!!!

Koochiesore...I just wanna tell.... NAW!! your insipid imbecility warrants no comment from an Old Fart That Mr Old Fart to you PUNK!!!...LOL!!!

grumpy smurf

Hey Kooch...Are you a tattoo artist?...Just curious...