HElp Trying to Convince my Nephew of 16 not to get tattooed

hey all. My nephew of 16 wants to get tattooed and his pops says its ok since he got one at that age and the shop where he would bring him would do it. And that shop isn't that good IMO. i told him to wait til hes 18 and then he can get tattoo by anyone he wants . I have my full back down and 3/4 sleeve and a chest plate. I told him to wait and i bring him but its not getting into his head. Any help in this area would be great. thanks for your time bryan

I'll tell you what I always tell my customers that have the same problem. Let him get a tattoo bring him to a nice clean shop because there are alot of dirty shops and people doing tattoos out of there own house and if he wants to get a tattoo bad enough he'll find away. My very first tattoo was done in my friends basement, I had no idea about things being clean I just wanted a tattoo. My tattoo turn out horrible it got very infected but thankfully I didn't end up with any kind of crazy deseases from my experience. So if he wants one let him, let him get something small and meaning full nothing to do with bands or clothing or anything stupid like that, there is nothing wrong with someone that is 16 years old getting a tattoo.

#1 it is ILLEGAL amost ANYWHERE to tattoo a minor!!!! #2 ANY and I mean ANY shop that would should not be in business. MOST STATES ARE NOW PROSECUTING BOTH THOSE WHO TATTOO MINORS AND THE ADULTS WHO TAKE THEM

Amen brother, no one get tattoos under 19 or 20 im my belief. It would only be a COOL factor... You need to get that into his head... tell him you'll help him to get a respectful artist, when he is ready, and I mean ready...Unfortunatley, they all think they have BEEN ready...

"Friends don't let friends get bad tattoos.....any tattoo on a minor is a BAD TATTOO!!!"...Taz

Hey Bryan, who the Hell on the Islad is gonna tattoo him? It's still illegal in the state on NY. Just report the fuckers. It's gonna take a complaint to get the shop in the trouble they deserve. Good luck... JOE

I have to disagree with Hopeless- "There is nothing wrong with someone that is 16 years old getting a tattoo" when in fact, there is everything wrong with that scenerio. I have yet to meet a single 16 year old that is into the same stuff by the time they are 20 as they were when they were 16. Most 16 year olds have an invisable bulletproof vest on and feel that nothing can affect them for the negative, when in essence, they are still children growing into adult bodies. Children are not capable of making adult decisions (hell, plenty of people of adult age aren't capable), and I really don't care if 16 is legal driving age, it doesn't mean 16 year olds are able to make permanant decisions when they've only gotten a taste of adulthood only because they're less than 2 years away (How many 16 year olds get grounded for doing something immature or stupid?). I'm not saying this applies to each and every 16 year old, but definitely a majority. As far as parents that sign for them, they need to resort to actually stepping back and being a parent and not giving in to these brats that want something and are going to whine and moan until they get it. The next thing is that they'll want to buy a kit on ebay and expect all the trade secrets by asking on a tattoo forum online- just because they feel that they deserve it!

I dont think most places nowadays will let a person under the age of 18 get a tattoo even with parents permission. I was able to get my sister her piercing for her b-day (17th) but remember having to be a certain age regardless if you were getting a tattoo. In my opinion I got my first tattoo at 18, the minute I was legal at a biker swap meat. I wanted a killer whale but the three artist tattooing didnt have any flash for it, so then I wanted a greatful deadbear, but they didnt have any of those so I settled with this dumbass wantabe dead bear with these dazed and confused look. It was cute at the time and for a while called it my bear on drugs tattoo but moral of story..was my first tattoo to have covered up..my opinion think long and hard, its for life!!

I agree with Krystof, getting a tattoo at 16 is never a good idea. Its certainly better than 14 but nonetheless. As i've mentioned before, most of us, tattooists or otherwise, regret the tattoos we had done before we were 18 for one reason or another. Why would we want to let someone else do the same thing without giving them a little warning? Unfortunately (from what i've heard) minors are allowed to be tattooed in a lot of states with parental consent, but thats no reason to run out and have a tattoo done just because you can. Wait for it. I believe that the longer someone waits to have a tattoo done determines how good a design they'll end up with in the long run. They'll have time to do a little research and seek out a good artist capable of giving them something that they'll truely love and feel proud of.

Its the whole patience lesson. Good tattoos most often require lots of patience. The more patience the better the tattoo. You can send your kids to Bad Tattoos to try to scare em... Im obviously jaded cause my kid is gonna growing up in the thick of it all, but if I was trying to stop an underage kid from getting a tattoo I would I would take an active part in their education. Instead of flatly refusing I would propose the following. For the next X years my kid would have to put $2-5 a week away for a tattoo and we would read through an art book/surf sites often. We would look at the best tattoo artists out there, and work hard to save enough to get their #2(or 2 or 3) choice. First and foremost I would do my best to make it exciting to learn about what's possible in the art of tattooing. I would never sign for an underage tattoo. From my experience, with few exceptions, people who get tattooed before their twenties regret their tattoos. They were probably done poorly(or very very poorly), and the subject matter isnt very timeless. Its hard enough to conceptualize time, how we pass through it, and how permanent permanent is. I mean, how many 16 year olds can conceptually realize that their badly done tattoo will be there when they are in their deathbed at 85?

Its the whole patience lesson. Good tattoos most often require lots of patience. The more patience the better the tattoo. You can send your kids to Bad Tattoos to try to scare em... Im obviously jaded cause my kid is gonna growing up in the thick of it all, but if I was trying to stop an underage kid from getting a tattoo I would I would take an active part in their education. Instead of flatly refusing I would propose the following. For the next X years my kid would have to put $2-5 a week away for a tattoo and we would read through an art book/surf sites often. We would look at the best tattoo artists out there, and work hard to save enough to get their #2(or 2 or 3) choice. First and foremost I would do my best to make it exciting to learn about what's possible in the art of tattooing. I would never sign for an underage tattoo. From my experience, with few exceptions, people who get tattooed before their twenties regret their tattoos. They were probably done poorly(or very very poorly), and the subject matter isnt very timeless. Its hard enough to conceptualize time, how we pass through it, and how permanent permanent is. I mean, how many 16 year olds can conceptually realize that their badly done tattoo will be there when they are in their deathbed at 85?

WE all know there are shops out there who will tattoo anyone rgardless of age as long as they have cash in hand...The big question is ...What can we do about it?...In my experience most states jump to it when it comes to passing laws about tattoo studios and have no problem chaging us exhorbitant license fees but sadly lack enforcement of underage tattooing laws. In my state of missouri..We pay $500 for a shop license and $100 per artist or piercer per year...Doctors and dentist only need a $50 Medical business license...Splain dat!!!! Lets hear from ya guys..Taz

Even if they are a mature 16 year old (not saying i agree with any 16 year old getting a tattoo, because they don't know what they will want in the end), at 16 nobody is done growing yet! I think the numbers are that males stop growing at 18, females 17??? It's something like that. But, i'm pretty sure males are around the age 18. So, if some 16 year old gets a tattoo, it's gonna look like all funky and warped in 2 years, as they will probably hit a growth spurt and throw everything out of whack!

Hey thx all for your replys. I had him read this and go to badtattoos, the place where is is gonna get it done is where his father got most of his work and he knows the owner. He wants to get more tattoos when he is 18 by some really good artist and i tell him then just wait but he don't want to listen. He says hes just gonna get something on his back his last name. I keep on driving it into his head to wait 2 years but its a hard thing to do... thanks again Bryan

Aaaah, the 'ole last name tattoo- bust his butt and keep asking him if he's afraid he'll forget his own last name, maybe he'll reconsider. That is also right in the middle of a spot that could potentially be a killer back piece, but he'll be limited because he has his own name there. Tell him to look at his license if he needs to be reminded.

well he is still thinking i even offered to pay for half of his first session on his arm if he waits till hes 18. I almost got him to wait. plus like others said hes still growing.. i keep drilling him

At 16 he knows he wants to be connected to his family, just not very original in ways to express that visually. He could think about what family means to him, especially in the context of images that can be tattooed for the next few years. The saying a picture is worth a thousand words is true, and you dont have much skin so you really should use it wisely to say as much as possible with what you have. If he wants to get a tattoo just to fit in, then quality means nothing to him, might be a lost cause. If he is getting a tattoo to truly express his unique love for his family, then he probably wont find great success with a simple name done by an artist who works on 16 year olds. If he spends some time to really think about things that are important and learn about the visual arts a bit, then his patience will be rewarded greatly and truely seperate himself out from the pack.... I really wish I had photos of my laser treatment, the blisters aint pretty at all. :-)

Ok I had to reply to this one Taz... If reading other posts.. I am starting my apprenticeship at a very busy very popular shop so I can relate to this.. I gave myself my first tattoo at 14 (typical hand cross thing-between my thumb and index finger). At 15 I did the dumbest thing possible (taz and krystof will tell ya) I put a GIRLS name, who I thought I was in love with...YA RIGHT at 15?. That went on my left forearm and of course that had to be covered up because shortly after she cheated on me and I broke up with her. At 16 I was given a dumb ass looking skull on my left bicep at a you-snooze-you-loose party (am I giving away my age now?) I got sooo drunk and passed out so they tattooed me..with what, I never found out and yes I have been tested many time over the years for diseases and was very, very fortunate not have gotten anything. Then I did some tattoos on my ankle that still have to be covered up, one on my chest that has to be covered up and the list goes on. I also had one done by one of those shitty shops we had here (WI) and now that turned out like crap and that has to be fixed or covered up (and it is an arm band-full wrap).....soooo the moral to the story is like taz, krystof, and others have said...find some way, any way to try and talk him out of it!! want some pics of mine I will send them to you. I am understanding the saying; "Welcome to your new addiction" but I have been an addict (tattoo) since I was a kid and that is just what I was, still am and am taking my addiction to learn tattooing. Plus at 16 your body has not stopped growing and the tattoo will stretch and distort like they said, that is a fact, seen it happen on my body...well hope this helps Mike

just let you know its not illegal to tattoo someone thats 16 longs the parents signs the slips...im 22 my first tattoo was at 8yrs old in a friends house then kept geting them after that then when i turned 16 i got my mom to sign for me at local tattoo shops!!!!! to get my home made ones covered

speedslasher...You are a MORON...It is illegal in every state but 4 to tattoo anyone under 18 PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! You may live in one of those states that allow it with parental consent (8 states to my knowledge) BUT FOR YOU TO COME ON THIS FORUM AND SAY "DUH GEE ITS OK TO GET AN UNDERAGE TATTOO IF MOMMY SIGNS" exceeds your lack of knowledge in your other posts. Don't give advice until you know it is right!!!!!! And NO repeat NO Professional artist will tattoo a legal minor!!!!!!!!!!!!! T

In addition to what Taz just said, you said u went to get all your illegal tattoos covered...so why would u promote people getting them when they will just have to get the covered? dumbass

Thanks Ducky...Guess I got caught up in the idiocy and missed that!...Taz

hey- - just a tiny dissagreement: with parental permission- I got a tattoo when i was 13 years old, a butterfly with the comedy/tragedy masks as wings on my hip after being accepted to a special Perfomance Art Academy for high school the next year. Now 22, i don't regret my decision at all, and I plan on getting another tattoo (snoopy!!- but thats a long story) I think it's stupid when kids try to conform by getting mindless tattoos that they will outgrow in 8 months, but if a kid is really serious (like I was, i spend a year finding a design and a shop) i think it should be their decision Sky

13??? Well, I highly doubt that was legal unless you got it in another country, or your parents lied about your age, but I will say if you're telling the truth that this was a really stupid example of parenting on your parents part, not only in the sense that most 13 year olds aren't even fully grown yet (mentally and physically), but if there was an effort to go out of the way to find a shop that would do it, they potentially put you at risk of a number of things that you shouldn't have been exposed to at that age. Sure, you may have lucked out in the sense that you're one out of a million people that didn't regret getting the tattoo that they wanted when they were 13, but if you did get the tattoo in this country, the shop broke the law, and who knows what other laws they broke as far as sterilization is concerned??? If a parent came into my shop wanting to sign for their 13 year old, I'd call DSS.

Amen to Krystofs last comment.......you parents should have been put in jail right along with the lowlife that tattooed you .13? jeeeeesh! Talk about irresponsible parenting! Did they allow ya to get fake boobs too? Did ya drive the family car at 10.? read the posts on this forum from every professional on here....we see the aftermath of underage tattoos EVERY DAY!!! And it ain't pretty! You MAY be the exception but they are few and far between.Why do ya think we discourage underage tattoos? Do ya think we just like turning down work? come on!.....Especially a 13 yr old!!! in any state ( ok maybe not Arkansas! ) (OK people from Arkansas I WAS JUST KIDDING!!! NO HATE MAIL!!) in any state that is considered CHILD ABUSE.....People go to PRISON for doing this! I am not now and never have been a snitch...but if I learned that someone perfomed an invasive proceedure on a 13 year old any where near to me I would see to it that the "artist" in question would see the error of his ways!!! NOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Taz

One more word...If a shop "stretches" the law and tattoos a minor ya gotta wonder what other laws and rules they are hedging on ...like oh I dunno.....USING A F*#$%&*G AUTOCLAVE!!!!!!!!! I can certainly understand differences of opinion on nearly any subject and I normally welcome a chance to debate ANYTHING ( like ya can't tell if ya been on this forum more than once) BUT..there are some things that brook no arguments and this is one of 'em...Taz

Tell him my brother gave me $50 toward my first tat for Christmas when I was like 20 years old... I couldn't decide what to get, and I couldn't decide what to get. This went on for 20 years! Yeah, I know, make up your mind already, but the moral of the story is, I waited until I found something I'd never regret. So, at 40 I had the most awesome 1/2 sleeve done. It's a bad-assed tribute to my twin daughters. Everyone has been really positive, and I love it. No 16 year old should ever be allowed to be tattooed, because at 16, you have no idea who you are, or what will be important to you. Took me way too long probably, but my artwork is awe inspiring, and I'll never regret it. What if I had had some cheese-dick design put on my arm when I was 16?

And a wise one you are Alan..Wish everyone put that much effort into something they gotta wear for the rest of their life!...Taz

excuse me- - a) my parents are wonderful. don't even go there b) in many states, there is no law against getting tattoos with parental permission (however, many/most studios have their own policies) maybe you wouldn't make that decision with your children, but don't look down on people who do

BULLSHIT snickers! It can and has been prosecuted as felony child abuse in every single state!!!!! I guess we people who have been in this business for years and years just don't know what we are talking about huh? Well WAKE UP!! WE DO KNOW. Or maybe its just a conspiracy to force our evil will on an unsuspecting public right? Get a grip how old are you now 14? Thats how you are coming across! Ya gotta draw the line somewhere especially when it comes to protecting innocent kids from being abused and neglected by ill informed and just plain stupid parents. We , as professional tattoo artists have drawn that line....TAz

Hey Taz, what kind of pervert 'artist' would tattoo a 13 year old girl on the hip in the first place??

tHATS WHAT i'M SAYIN mARIO! What kind of fucked up artist would TOUCH a 13 yr old?????I'd love to catch someone doin that...they would not have to worry about police. And the parents MY GOD what were they thinking???

hey, i just felt i had to add my $.02 in here. i got my first 2 tattoos underage--do i regret it? you bet. just this friday i just spent a lot of time and money getting the first of those 2 covered up...IT IS NOT WORTH IT!!!! tell him that the feeling of having to wait as many years as needed to 1) be legal and 2) make a decision you're going to want to carry with you the rest of your life is not nearly as hard as seeing something everyday that you hate and wish you'd never gotten...

Arkansas has no age limit on tattoos or piercings.....And the sad thing about it is, shops are making a lot of MONEY off of these kids. We have a shop close to us that is piercing kids with unsteril jewelry right out of the case, causing serious infections, for 7.95.

Adressing the post above... I think the professionals in Arkansas should be writing their congressmen an senators and just in general lobbying to get some regs in your state... Now before ya even start with the " we don't need the government telling us what to do!" thing, well then tell us how YOU would keep people from piercing these little kids and probably tattooing them. If ya ain't part of the solution yer part of the problem!...TAz

What the FUCK is wrong with the parents letting thier kids get tattooed at these young ages. if you ask me thats the real crime, I feel it should be considered a form of child abuse to tattoo a kid(minor) and the parents should be BEATEN WITHIN INCHES OF THIER LIVES for neglecting thier parental duties.

you guys i tell ya......Hows about this...Since every body is different you cannot generalize and say that NO 16 yr old should get tattooed because not all 16 yr olds that want a tatt are immature. So an easy solution would be as a parent to analyze the child in question...look at their track record are they know for making bad choices? What is the reason for them wanting a tattoo? are they 16 and act like they are 10? Are they easily talked into stuff by others? You need to figure out if this person is capable of making a decision like that. When i was 15 my uncle who i was very close to passed away and he was covered in tattoos. So to memorialize his death i got a tattoo dedicated to him. I am 26 years old now and eleven years have passed and I would not change one thing about the tattoo.

Not everyone is a dumb ass at age 16. What is absolutely IDIOTIC is that anyone would think that at age 18 you MAGICALLY become more mature...and know, from that moment on, what is right. That's almost as stupid as the trailer park bimbo that ends up fucking someone who is too drunk to pull out, thinking she is now the most intelligent being on the planet just because she got knocked up. It needs to be judged on an individual basis. It is legal to tattoo ANYONE in my state with parental consent. Almost every studio will do so. Many 16 year olds know more about what they want out of life than YOU do. Ask most of the older tattooist when they got their first tattoo. I got mine long before 18.

I think the real issue is not about how mature the child being tattooed seems to be, I believe what should be the biggest concern is that even at 16, a human is not fully developed, there is still alot of growing to be done. Heres some food for thought In many tribal cultures across the globe being tattooed is a rite of passage into manhood. come on honestly, is a 16 yr old a man?

A female becomes a woman at the time of ovulation, scientifically. A male becomes a man at the time he can produce sperm, scientifically. Last I recall, that is at around 13...which is when most tribes initiate their young into adulthood.

From what I can tell, it usually takes until the early twenties for people to get good tattoos. The sharp kids can do it at 18. Ive never seen a tattoo done on someone underage that was good. Simply put, it takes years to do the proper learning and research to get a good tattoo and the longer you learn the better the tattoo.

So, at 18 you reach the magical point where you know everything? Or is it 20? Tell us Gabe....when is that time when all the wisdom of the universe is bestowed upon ye? Please define it scientifically for us. I've seen 16 year olds with INCREDIBLE tattoos.

And this from the guy who tells us it's lame to prohibit ALL kids from being in the studio...and that judging one person's kid by another is lame. Which is it?

Last I heard, we BECAME MEN by making mistakes and by doing what was right and eventually understanding the difference between the two.

Last I heard, we BECAME MEN by making mistakes and by doing what was right and eventually understanding the difference between the two.

Keep...for once I gotta say you are full of shit pal...No one is saying that there is a magic age where a person just automatically develops maturity...but there has to be a cut off point...some kids are mature enough to drive a car at 13 ...well so what?...should it be legal for any kid of any age to drive? Of course not. Sometimes a situation requires an arbitrary decision or rule.This is one of those situations. As far as all the 16 year olds with great tattoos..well...I respect you enough that I have to believe ya but I have NEVER seen a 16 year old with even a GOOD tattoo.Don't know where you are from but...well....

I got my first tat at sixteen and i already regret It and im still 16. I meen Its great tattoo and it meens alot to me but im way to young to be getting inked. same goes for your nefew just try and talk him out of it as much as you can....or kidnap him or somethin ahaha just kiddin hope i helped

You know full well that there is no age when wisdom is bestowed apon thee. All we can do is try to learn every day and work hard to open up our heads as much as possible. From what I can tell wisdom isnt knowing, its knowing what you dont know.... You may be 100% correct, maybe there are tons of 16 year old kids out there with INCREDIBLE tattoos. Just because my posts are a different color doesnt mean I know anymore than you... just means I own the place. I know firsthand the mistakes I have made and secondhand the zillions I have heard about from visitors, friends, and artists. I mean, we could all have the collective lets hear about all our bad tattoos we all got underage and what was the age we got our first good tattoo again and again, but they are all in the archives. I dont really care if 16 year olds get tattoos, if they do their research and get a good artist to do a good tattoo, more power to em. If they get a bad one, they deserve it. I have yet to see any good ones, but hey, send up some links to these great tattoos done on 16 year olds... Im not sure what you mean by judging one persons kid by another. What exactly are you referring to? I believe every kid should be judged (using your term) by their own actions (which ultimately are the results of their parents actions). About becoming a man by making mistakes... I learned pretty much everything by trial and error and your right, making mistakes and learning from them is one way to do it (though Id argue its probably not the best, especially in the case of tattooing). I dont see how trying to teach kids the best way to get unique creative quality tattoos makes them or us any less masculine(or feminine).

Tell your Nephew 2 words... Duran Duran. What if we all got everything we thought was cool tattooed on us as teenagers? I'm sorry Keep, but this one, I really disagree with you. There is no such thing as a mature 16 year old. True, some may be MORE mature than others if you are comparing 16 year olds, but mature 16 year old is an oxymoron. It's like jumbo shrimp, or military intelligence. No one with only 16 years of life experience is qualified to make a decision like that... and at 14, I'm not even going to touch it. At some point as parents, we just have to be parents and say no. And when your kid says why not, you say "Fuck no, because I said so, and don't ask again". Why? because look at our culture today guys... I don't want to get all holier than thou on anyone but fuck, I'll tell you what... I'm not here to be my daughter's best friend. I'm here to be their Dad, show them love and keep them safe. I'm not here to tell my kids "Honey I wouldn't touch that chainsaw with your forehead if I were you, but hey, it's your decision and I'd like to think I raised you in a culture of trust". I'm here to SHOW them how to live with honor and smarts so that they don't HAVE to make EVERY FUCKING MISTAKE IN THE WORLD to know that some things are just flat fucking dumb, and with 30 something years of experience, your parents probably know more about it than you do. Does anyone actually have to go through the experiment of putting an AK-47 to your head and pulling the trigger to know it's a bad idea? C'mon parents. Step up. Get some fucking responsibility and control over your kids. If your kid wants a tattoo before they are 18, tell them no, explain why, and if they ask again, say I FUCKING SAID NO. Have the balls to be your kid's parent. It's easy to be their friend. It's fucking hard every day to be a parent, but that's what we signed on for. It's your obligation. It's a sacred obligation. Don't fuck it up. You only get one chance. All you shop owners who are actually willing to tattoo a 13, 14, 15, 16 year old, wether it's legal or not, cut the bullshit and do the right thing and say no. And if they ask again, tell them I said FUCK NO. And if their parents will sign for it tell them Fuck no again, because those dumb bastards should be thrown in jail for child abuse for allowing their kid to be put in that situation. And if you do it, your ass should be thrown in jail too. Why? Because you are just another fucking vulture who knows the right thing to do, and sells his shit out. You tattoo a 13 year old, and you are no higher on the evolutionary chain than a fucking heyena. To all of you artists, shops, owners who will not tattoo a kid for any reason I applaud you, and hold you in the highest possible regard as compassionate and worthwhile human beings. I hope like hell I will be able to raise my daughters with a sense of self-respect, a sharp head, and good common sense so that if I'm not around, they will be able to make good decisions for themselves. Will I make it? Who knows. Will they make mistakes? Hell yeah. But I'll tell you what, when the time comes, I'll drop a bomb on their ass. Why Because I'm Dad... and I love em. When they are 21 they can do whatever they want. They will be adults. Fuck, I'll even pay half. And, because I love em, I'll make them wait to find an artist who does even better than mine did. I think I said fuck like more than 10 times. I apologize.

I agree with the "there is no such thing as a mature sixteen year old ahahaha and im sixteen. just put all that imaginative sixteen yr old intelligence towards a totaly nuts tattoo when your or age to get it done with out your parents it will be worth much moreto yourself

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better. And this from a 16 year old.

I'll try to keep those wise words in mind when the next 35 year old comes in and wants a tazmanian devil with a beer glass and NasCar hat. I'll let him know how proud I am that he waited until he was 35, so he didn't make any mistakes and do something he might regret. I'll tell him how mature he is acting. And I'll send the 16 year old kid who wants a well thought out custom piece away, and explain that he isn't mature enough to make a decision like that on his own. Thanks for the advise!

Now your gettin' it smartass! You just do your best to remember just exactly what you said and you'll be part of the solution... you can't save a 35 year old gomer with bad taste. You can however refuse to do an illegal and irresponsible action to a kid... which would make you a thoughtful and caring member of the human race. I respect and admire you for that. Funny that your half-assed attempt at sarcasm should land you in doing what's right.

First, It isn't illegal where I am. Second, SOMEONE will do the tattoo for him. It can be in a clean studio by a trained professional or a guy in a slum. I guess the responsible thing to do is narrow his options so he has to go to a hack. That way I can invest the time into catering exclusively to more intelligent adults who want tribal tramp stamps and Harley Davidson logos and Chevy bowties. How could I have ever imagined that there could be such a thing as an intelligent teenager when it's obvious all the adults are so superior? I guess it must be a character flaw I have. I'll try to come to my senses.

By not tattooing minors we are most certainly NOT forcing them to do something irresponsible. They make their own choices. You can do your best to teach kids not to go to the slums, but dont fool yourself into thinking that by not tattooing them you are forcing them to do anything. If they dont take advice to wait to get a professional work when they are of age, responsibility lies squarely on their own shoulders. Indeed, the fact that the kids cant wait and have to go to the slum is the very reason they arent mature enough to make a decision about getting a tattoo.

And of course there are smart teenagers and stupid adults. We have had an open call for kids to post their awesome tattoos gotten underage. No takers yet, the proof is in the pudding...

Again Keep, your arguement is basicallly that you're gonna keep enabling kids to make bad decisions because if you don't, they'll make worse decisions somewhere else. And, you are following it up with enabling kids to make bad decisions because there are adults out there who are capable of making worse decisions. Your arguement is no different than saying hey, I'm gonna keep selling kids heroin and giving them clean needles to fuck up their lives because if I don't they'll just go to some back alley place to get heroin, probably use dirty needles, and fuck up their lives. It doesn't make sense. Look you're probably a good guy. You know the difference between right and wrong. And you know that adult stupidity is not a justification for gambling on a child's stupidity. Do the right thing.

in addition, nobody said you have to just say no, and that be the end of it. Maybe take the time it would take to tattoo the kid to explain why you won't and why he should wait, and explain if he comes back when he's old enough you can do a kick-ass job for him. It doesn't have to be all or none.

**We have had an open call for kids to post their awesome tattoos gotten underage.** Well, if we are gonna make challanges, how about this one: Take a pic of every tattoo that you do in your studio on the busiest day this week, and use the time/date stamp, so we know it's not bullshit, and show us what all these really intelligent adults who are responsible enough to make that decision are getting. I'll bet if you did that, there would be more 16 year olds willing to post.

**explain why you won't and why he should wait, and explain if he comes back when he's old enough you can do a kick-ass job for him. It doesn't have to be all or none.** Again...according to the laws here he IS old enough. Second, if he is an intelligent person with well thought out ideas what reason should I tell him to wait? Because I am on some power trip? Because although nature disctates that someone is an adult when they can ovulate or produce semen, society has decided to artificially prolong his childhood and assume he is an idiot?? So, what has this brought us? I remember when I was 12, being given a rifle and shotgun and being responsible enough and adult enough to be trusted with it. I not only killed and dressed my own animals, but cooked them...AT AGE 12! The 16 year olds you are creating can't fuckin' cut their own steak because you won't allow them to have a sharp knife. In every culture OTHER THAN western culture, adulthood and responsibility begins at about age 13. Those young people are far better adjusted than our youth, who because they are belittled and religated to being children, cannot be trusted to own a firearm...lest they take it to school and kill each other. That is not a result of kids being ignorant...it is a result of social engineering. I'd be willing to bet your great grandma was married by age 15.

I guess Ill play. First, issuing a challenge with a challenge wont prove the first wrong, of course. We still want to see the INCREDIBLE tattoos on the 16 year olds. I don't doubt you have seen them, I just have never seen a decent one and want to! I know full well there are exceptions to every "rule". Next we pretty much do take photos of every tattoo that leaves the studio (as well as the tattoos our guests post). Our studio is very appointment based, though, and only 4 months old so we dont crank out tons of tattoos everyday, but thats one reason we try to put up every photo we can! You can check it out at Off the Map Tattoo. Sometimes the artists dont have their camera on them or one or two get lost cause of bad pics... Again, as was stated before, just because adults make bad decisions doesn't mean kids should necessarily have the same privilege. Never mind the fact that i dont think we are talking legal issues as much as ethics... We also run bad tattoos that has plenty of adults and teenage victims on it.

Okay. You're right. I give up. About the mature, well thought out teenager tattoos... you win. Let's see em.

What's to see? I have had 16-17 year olds come in who were intelligent enough to understand far more about eastern philosophy than most adults ever will that got sanskrit mantras tattooed on them that were meaningful. I have done custom color work on them that any adult would be proud to have. I have done custom blackwork pieces any adult would be proud to have. And I have had kids who just wanted marked that I turned away...just like I turn away idiotic adults who just want marked. (and I see FAR FAR more idiotic adults) It isn't me who is making the preposterous statement that there is no such thing as a teenager who is mature enough to make that decision. It's you. I happen to be in an area where it is legal to tattoo ANYONE with parental consent, and have seen just as many well thought out and well executed pieces on teenagers as I have on adults. Maybe the kids in your area are just the stupid outcome of your socially engineering them to be perpetual children. Maybe you should work on that. If the child is a product of their parent's upbringing, and you don't trust your 16 year old to make a responsible decision, I guess you are admitting failure as a parent. Most kids here are preparing for lifelong careers by then.

My kids will be just fine. I will be a success as a parent because they will be intelligent enough to steer clear of hacks like you that don't see the problem with performing an invasive proceedure on a child as long as it's okay with their fucked up folks... and I won't even have to ASK them. They'll just steer clear of you because they'll know people like you are not admirable. Lucky for me, I won't need to worry about you and your ilk. You'll go on, doing what you do, you'll make your money, you'll convince yourself you are some kind of paragon of free thought, and the champion of the underaged everywhere, and life goes on. So take of the gloves, light one up, have a drag, do what you do so well, and have a good life brother. Like so many others in this country, you can't be held responsible for your actions... you are just providing a service. That's you. Service. When my kids grow up, and become adults (sometime after age of consent... there is something to be said for your age not equaling maturity arguement though, because at 6 they seem to know more about right and wrong than you do) and they want to do this and do it right, I'll take them to a professional. Back to what Taz always says. No professional would ever tattoo someone under age. Period.

LOL....alright. Keep ahold of those apron strings, Mother hen! Why stop at 18 or 21? Keep 'em in diapers until they're 40. I trust you also feel they are not responsible enough to make the decision to drive a car down a highway, where the potential to kill innocent people is only a milisecond of irresponsibility away? Or are you a hypocrite there, too? What age do you propose these irresponsible and braindead kids get to drive?

(lol) Nice try! That all you got? Well, you get an A for effort.

So tell us. When will your children be responsible enough to drive a car, which has the potential to kill people because of a moment of bad judgement, if they cannot be trusted to have good enough judgement to get a tattoo at age 16? We're waiting for your totally illogical and hypocritical arguement, here. Please do not keep us in suspense!

That's better, that's better.... at least you got the word hypocrytical in there, which helps, but if you expect to bait me into tackling an issue like teen driving which is a whole other oprah on a TATTOO forum you're going to have to be more creative than that. I'll give you one more chance. Come on. You can do it Service Boy. Throw me a real punch.

I just did...and you failed miserably. So at what age are your kids responsible enough to drive. If you are capable of answering the question, please, enlighten us. If not, just say so. It isn't a whole other opera. If they aren't responsible enough at 16 to make a decision that hurts no one but themselves (possibly) what age can they be trusted with the lives of thousands?

Your illustrious president is sending 18 year old kids to Iraq to get their bodies torn to shreds by bullets. You mean to tell me a human goes from: "Being too irresponsible to get a tattoo" to "Being old enough to become cannon fodder" IN ONE DAY???! Your arguement is insane on so many levels it's pathetic.

(Heavy Sigh) Nope. Sorry Man. I'm very dissappointed in you. That's not going to be good enough. That's another red herring arguement, your third I think. You are mental midget, and I'm done with ya. Now you're just going to have to resort to "Chickenshit" or "Coward" or "Pussy" and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't even do it. Have a good day. p.s, since you asked, and it's a fair question, I tend to lean toward 18 on driving age because I believe that your physical reflexes and responses are still developing during the preteen and early teen years. Your feet are too big for your body, your brain is just not all that developed yet, etc. Most states are around 16. Could account for the high instances of teenage driving accidents. Worth some investigation.

<<"SOMEONE will do the tattoo for him. It can be in a clean studio by a trained professional or a guy in a slum. I guess the responsible thing to do is narrow his options so he has to go to a hack. ">> "I tattoo them because if I don't , some scratcher will." Is about as weak as: " I was forced to scratch because no pro would give me an apprenticeship." It is a failed attempt to shift the blame for ones own un-ethical behavior to someone or something else. It is a weak cop out...can't be right all the time I guess...

In all fairness I'm not trying to take sides but, is there alot of thoughts and feelings you have now that you had when you were 16 or 17, I was 16 ten years ago so it's not that hard to remember, I felt so strong about things, and I was sure Id feel that way for ever, 3 months later I was totaly different, and no I wasn't suffering from a personality disorder I was a teenager, I am glad I didn't make any life altering decisions, or commitment, HEll I had a new boyfriend every month, as far as culture is concerned, and perental upbringing, thats up to perental descesion, the only one that knows this kid is their parent. I have a two year old and I think she is the smartest little girl in the world, I'm also a tattoo artist, Guess what? she doesn't even have her ears pierced. I feel when she is mature enough, and wants it done, then it will be something she can earn, but I'm her mother, and it's up to me.

OK...so you take over and answer the two last questions for cactus, since he is too chickenshit. What age should someone be allowed to drive, and how can someone go from being too irresponsible to get a tattoo, to being a human target in ONE DAY? Thanks for your prompt and thoughtful reply.

So, Cactus...then, being a man of honor, (which I am sure your "holier than thou" self is) You will absolutely refuse to allow your kids to drive until age 18 and feel anyone who allows their 16 year old to drive is an unfit parent...correct?

Hey Cactus...Give it up man ...this guy is one of those dudes that have sooo much knowledge in them that they are gonna be right no matter what ...you are wastin yer time arguin with him.In the meantime the glaring majority of professional tattooartists will not tattoo minors Period!!!....so.Al...lets go on to a different subject ok?

And if the majority do not want to, that's fine. But that doesn't mean someone who does isn't professional. It simply means they do not adhere to common social idealism.

Think of it this way, Taz. If EVERYONE adhered to common social idealism, YOU AND I wouldn't have a job...because common social idealism generally condemns tattooing, altogether.

What society do you live in?

This is one of the oldest forms of art known to man, in many cultures its a rite of passage, if you feel ailienated, you did it to your self, I wasn't disagreeing w/ you, about how you feel, but as a parent it is a parents right and obligation to protect thier child. There is a big diffrence between driving, getting a tattoo, and going to war, and what about drinking, I'm not here to argue injustice, just to do what I feel best for my child

One that feels that if you are 17, you aren't emotionally stable enough to be tattooed, but the next day, when you turn 18, you are emotionally stable enough to be getting shot at in a foreign country...meanwhile allowing you to navigate a quarter ton of steel and glass down a freeway at age 16, apparantly. Is that screwy and confusing enough for you? As confusing as those mixed messages are, is it any wonder we have events like Columbine?

I hardly think it constitutes a mass murder

If you confuse someone enough their actions become very unpredictable. Is it merely coincidence that the more we attempt to artificially prolong childhood, the more violent teens become when they "blow off steam". As I said in an earlier post, I was given firearms at age 12. When I was in High School, it was not unusual in my area to have kids bring guns to school and drill and tap them for scopes in the large machine shop they had available to them (complete with sharp objects and dangerous moving parts). Ya know how many kids got shot? None. Because we were treated like adults and raised to be adults, WE CHOSE TO ACT LIKE ADULTS. Not that I expect anyone to get that...I just feel like typing, today...I guess.

No I do get it, I moved out when I was 14, my mom wasn't the greatest parent, I had to grow up. But I grew up on a farm w/ 16 horses, and alot of responsability, but I'm sure you can agree that putting something on your body that is permanet, at an age when the things you like are constantly changing, could be a mistake, not to mention I have more trouble w/ the 16 yr olds that their parents sign for them to get a navel ring, and they take care of it for about a week, and stop. I do see where your coming from, can you try to see where I'm coming from, Dont forget Im a tattooist, and a parent, I fear greatly for my child growing up in todays society, Its our job as a society to become informed and ask ?, but also to have our own opinions.

keep i gotta give it to ya......NOBODY answered you about the driving thing......they just all kept giving you reasons of why they wouldnt answer it.....good stuff

notice also that after taz told cactus to give up.... thats it.........cactus stopped posting...............No wonder why he thinks its impossible for teenagers to make up their own mind.......he's an adult and cant even make up his...........betcha now he'll post....

Oh come on Legacy...thats a cheap shot and not deserved...Are you sayin a man with multiple degrees, a professorship ( is that a word?) at a major university and a very highly respected man in the art of commercial design can't think or speak for himself? Now that is ridiculous man! Don't be a dick like I have been way too many times and spout off crap (like I did to you and if ya look you can find my apology)...TAz

taz....i love a good discussion especially when there are valid points being made from both sides...And keep brought up an extremely good point of why is it that a 16 yr is old able to get behind the wheel of a car legally and be trusted with the lives of thousands of people on the roads but yet isnt trusted enough to make a decision of whether or not he should get tattooed......and it left me dissappointed when I didnt see a response....... again I've never tattooed a minor but thats a dam good arguement and I would like to see the response from the other side....

No response? BULLSHIT!!!...Read back and you will see that I brought up the point about drivers MYSELF not Keeps...And if ever you think I don't respond because I don't have an answer well litlle guy you need to rethink that. This is one old fucker that ain't scared to debate ANYTHING and if I don't answer it is probably because I am not online to answer...you are pressin it man...THINK!!!!...TAz

Obviously driving cars and getting a permanent tattoo are two completely different beasts, but Ill bite. We're talking about how society protects itself so there are obviously lots of shades of grey and there are many factors, the largest being the community we are talking about. Everyone lives in a different community. Teaching a teenager a skill like driving is entirely different than teaching that same teenager what "permanent" means. That is, there are TONS of teenagers responsible enough to drive safely, and FEW teenagers who understand what it takes to get a good tattoo. As far as drinking, the legal age is something that has to overcompensate for cultural weakness. If we could teach our kids to be respectful of the drug, then there would be no need for a drinking age. As far as not being old enough to get a tattoo one day and going to war the next, 18 is the accepted general guidelines for becoming an adult. I mean, there are plenty of 17 year olds who are capable of going to war. Shit, there are plenty of 12 and 10 and 8 years olds capable, and as horrifying as it is there are many places where there are kids fighting the fight at that age. I dont like unnecessary rules, I dont think(I hope!) many of us here fall into the sheepople category, but we know what we see and dont deny reality as we see it. Treating children as adults is something I practice, it teaches them responsibility for their actions and because children are capable of anything, if you treat them and teach them that way indeed they are. BUT children are just that, children, and CANT make many decisions that adults can due to the very nature of them not being adults. When does that "magic adult time" happen? Its hard to tell, but from what I gather from hearing hundreds and hundreds of stories its around early twenties, though, some of the mature underage kids do learn about tattoos for a few years and Ive seen 18 year olds with pretty good tattoos (though still a rare case). I was paying rent at 15 and making all my own decisions about how to work and live, but that didnt mean I was capable of making good tattoo decisions. Knowing how to live responsibly in the moment is much different than knowing what living in a "lifetime" is all about. So of course kids can shoot guns and drive cars better than making tattoo decisions. Professional conduct is defined by a high bar of standards. By definition tattoo artists have to strive pretty hard to be considered professional, as I pointed out by linking to the definitions. the highest moral conduct and ethical standards apply (or should apply) to the term professional. The vast majority of your peers, and the leaders of the industry, agree on a certain moral conduct to be considered professional. I agree with it. While one definition of professional is to simply make a living from your work, I would take a lot (for me) to consider someone who defends the practice of underage tattooing professional. You have the right to if its legal, but I dont think your elevating your art to the highest standards. I feel comfortable having a conversation with a party of doctors ( or other "true" professions) about the professional nature of tattooing, but I wouldnt if we were tattooing kids and cutting corners... Kids can go to cheaper scratchers if they feel compelled to, there is a large market of adult clients looking for professionals. Do you think children should be able to shoot smack if they want? You know, make those mistakes and learn like real men learn?

Here in NC this month we have had sevral resent deaths resulting from teenage drinking and driving, are you saying if they had gotten tattooed at 14 this wouldnt happen?

Im sorry to say this but he needs to find out the hard way or maybe he will actually have some sense... my little sister is 15 and is going to get one done by my friend (i wont let anyone else touch her) and if it doesnt go well then she will know that it was a dumb decision. But as for changing his mind there isnt a way to do that... your just reakky attached and probably made a mistake when you were younger and dont want to have him end up the same way. I'ts family love .

Im sorry to say this but he needs to find out the hard way or maybe he will actually have some sense... my little sister is 15 and is going to get one done by my friend (i wont let anyone else touch her) and if it doesnt go well then she will know that it was a dumb decision. But as for changing his mind there isnt a way to do that... your just really attached and probably made a mistake when you were younger and dont want to have him end up the same way. I'ts family love .

Family Love?!... And you are taking your 15 year old sister to a "friend" to be tattooed?!.... "Hey, I'm taking my 15 year old brother to a friend to shoot heroin. I won't let anyone else touch him...." Do you see how much sense that DOES NOT make?! Please God say, "Yes." You both are going to learn that "hard" way when your sister gets Hep C or AIDS from your "friend". If you love your sister you would tell her "NO" and refuse to take her to anyone that wasn't a professional....And guess what; NO PROFESSIONAL TATTOO ARTIST WILL TATTOO A MINOR, EVER!!!

Well, I got a tattoo when I was 16. and stupidly, i got a band symbol. Im only 3 years older and already I regret/hate the band. Im getting it covered pretty soon, but thats besides the point. just try your hardest to not let him do it. and if he does it. dont let him get any stupid shit. easier said than done though, im sure

Aw Hell with it...just shoot him in the fuckin head!

I'm with you Taz.

i just found this site while i was looking at pics for a future tattoo,thought id have my say, ima sixteen year old girl,and i want a tattoo,i have mates that have them,my best mate got hers done age 14 & i think it looks great,ive been lookign for nearli a year,but i keep chaning my mind,which probly means im not ready to get one,that n they seem to be a bit of a craze with college kids at the moment,most of whom are under 18,i reali want one,but to be honest,id rather take my time finding a design i like and go somewhere reputable that uses clean sterile equiptment than get it done in someones basement,just coz i want it done by someone who knows what there doing, the scary thing is my mates went to studios that are supposedly reputable,the problem here is that most places only ask for ID if you look too young and its hard to tell,ive had 10 peircings and onli got asked for ID once,i dont regret it and love the look of all of them,but i know tatts are different and that there for life,as much as i want one,i would rather wait, just because they mite not look so good later, u may think im just another kid who thinks they know everything, i dont know everythin,but its part of growing up,making mistakes and having to live with the concequences.