JWERK!!! WE STRUCK IT RICH!!!!

JWERK!!! I JUST FOUND A WHOLE TRIBE OF TATTOOED BELLY DANCERS ONLINE!! FOR REAL BEAUTIFUL LADIES IN ALL SHAPES AND SIZES AND THEY ARE ALL TATTOOED BELLY DANCERS! FOR REAL! DETAILS A COMIN'...

Wow! Captain comedown time! Okay, so my first experience with the belly dancers didn't go so well. I put myself out there just to say hi, no pickups, no sexist comments, no bad anything (I think everyone on this forum knows I have a lot of respect and admiration for the fairer sex) just expressing some appreciation for their art. What a bitchy group of chicks. First of all, they don't want to have anything to do with my ass because I'm a M.A.N., and second, I've never run across such a self-righteous attitude. I was stunned. I've gotta go re-check what I said? Lots and lots of physical and psychological boundaries with this group. Hmm. Sheesh! Just making friends... didn't ask to DO anyone... Gonna give it another try but the women who responded to me were, so far, really conceited. I am surprised! I wouldn't have thought they'd be more interesting. Maybe it's me? I don't have much to offer? I dunno. Anyway... Back to work.

show em your tongue Al, maybe that will attract them Mortis

Hope so. My hair sure as hell won't... Mortis, you got your pic up yet? Go do it!

Mortis...you comin to the TAzfest? Al...do I have to get on that site on which you so miserably failed and show ya wats up?.....member...nice guys finish last!! CAVEMAN THEORY!!!!

Funny thing about belly dancers........................In some of their countries of origin...............they're not held in regard much higher than that of a whore...................so fuck that bullshit! My sis is a belly dancer, and a lot of the bitches in her troupe are tampons, and they're not even that great.............looking, or dancers. I think it was Ahlyn (where ya been lately?) who once said, "Punch that bitch in the ovaries!!!! There is never not a good time for an ovary punch!". TCE

Hmmm.... Okay! Y'all got a point!!!

Surely there are a couple out there for us AL.... Let's hunt some hips!!!

Jason, the more I think about it, I just don't think this Hillary girl is a good choice for you. You need someone extra special. Can I have her?

That's true, there's never not a good time to punch someone in the ovaries. Really, I am mellow!

Ahlyn, Don't go turnin' the other cheek on me now..................... TCE

What did the five fingers say to the face? *slap!*

You just leave the cheek turning to me.....................Slap!

Okay. I've now changed my mind for good. These women are fucking bitches. Fuck this whole tattooed belly dancer thing. If you're too good for men, and you view them as trash, why the hell would you spend so much of your time investing in a hobby that is designed to attract them? My apologies in advance to any tattooed belly dancers out there that actually do like men. The rest of ya, can kiss my ass. I'm fucking sick of being nice to women. Look me up when your "handsome-boy modeling school graduate" chest shaver dumps your ass for someone else. I'll be there for ya... maybe... if I'm not at TAZFEST that is.... Shit! To all REAL WOMEN, you know who you are, kind, caring, strong, considerate, smart, opinionated, loving, etc. props to you babes, and I don't give a damn WHAT size you are!

Al, Oh come now....................they say the same thing about us. The fact is, men and women are/have simply created/evolved differently, so therefore, we will never get along, and we were wrong to ever try to do so. You ever notice that things get a lot easier when you just let go and stop trying so hard? I'm lucky that God/evolution gave me a left hand for days I feel like cheating. TCE

TCE, You're starting to scare me. You make a lot of sense. Quit it.

Tim ol boy...you and I are brothers of the soul!! We think so much alike it is scary!! Al... SHADDUP!!!

It's really true, as I get older, I just don't care about the real thing like I used to. I've had enough to know what it's like, and to know all the hassle that comes along with it. It's more than enough for me to 'steal' their image for a quickie, and then move onto important things, like cars, bikes, and drums and stuff. It's funny looking back, you realize that when men are younger, there is some sort of short circuit mechanism in the brain that won't allow that option to be used in the priority mode. I would never want to go back to that. TCE

Al I gotta say it pal...you put the fair sex up on a pedastal that is WAY too high...I love women too...hell I usually own 3 or 4 ...but dammit man...level playin field and all that ya dig?...They are just humans ya know...well almost humans....and only sometimes!....I get the feeling that you somehow think that they (women) are all godesses and buddy it just ain't so...the minute you start treating them (the enemy) as godesses they turn into life and soul sucking vampires...Now I know there are gonna be a bunch of women sayin"oh we don't like that macho attitude...we like "nice guys"...Yeah well BULLSHIT!!...it just ain't so...They want a man to be a man...PERIOD!..Simpering wimps get SHIT...ZIP!>>>NADA! Experiment with this profound new idea that I am layin on you...try it out...You'll see!..Tim...your thoughts?...T

One more thing Al...Ask Jwerk if bein the "nice guy" worked for him

AHHHHHHHHH FUCK NO!!!! SHIT! I don't know what hurts the most? All the shit I went/ am going through, or that I was stupid enough to believe that there might be "exceptions to the rule." a;ludhflihf;kusdhf;hasdhsw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's all I'm sayin'.

Im a nice guy and seemed to do pretty darned good(if I dont say so myself!)...

thats true sweetheart !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and . . . . . . yummy :-P love, k

Al Buddy, You wanna see how it really is? Subscribe to Cosmo, or Jane, or Marie Claire.................................Jesus, you've never seen such a desperate gender!!!!! It's basically all about how to manipulate your man into doing what you want without him knowing you're doing it. And then there are a few articles on health and beauty, who got date raped this month, and a shitload of advertising....................But the main theme of these magazines is SEX, SEX, and more SEX. Where to find it, how to dress to get it, how to work out to be better at it, what fragrance to wear to draw the animals in. Think about it,,,,,,,,,women who read this stuff are the ones who are oversexed, and the ones who aren't are on some sort of meds Think of it as an investment in your mental well being, because once you read this redundant shit month after month, you'll know what's really up. Women should take the editors and writers of these rags and publicly scourge them Passion style for disclosing so much information. The most powerful women, as with men, have something to prove, and there is more weakness than strength banging around in that psyche than you may think. So much so, that if you were able to breach that front, you'd probably turn around and run for your life in record time. Like TAz said, they are just people. Look for the ones who act like it, because in the end, you don't want to be nurturing the ego of some Al Bundy chick whose glory days are long gone. TAz................your turn. TCE

And J-werk.............................. I don't know your current situation................I can only speculate. There's nothing wrong with being nice, just don't be a push over. Don't be one of these retards that make excuses for the others behavior...........................there are no excuses..................and there are no exceptions!!!!!!!!! Everyone has a price, and anyone who says different is lying or really naive. It's these people who fuck around and then say, I never meant to, it just happened. Well duh!!!!!!! Because the price was right............but no excuses...... It's really up to the person who's been wronged to decide whether they can continue on in the relationship and accept the other persons behavior( because it isn't likely to change), or say "Fuck this!", and spend the time looking for something new. Always remember, despite what sappy lovesongs say, you lived a lifetime before that person came along, you'll get along without them just fine after their outta your life!!! TCE

You know, I agree with you guys. Fuck it. I'm done. I'm a hell of an awesome guy, and frankly, I ain't no fuckin' girly man either. Let's just say I had a lot of years to successfully defend my masculinity and hide just fine, but you guys are right. Totally fucking right. I'm loyal, straight up, truthful, in good shape, and kind. But chicks these days don't seem to want that... I say chicks because I don't know what women want, but frankly I don't seem to know any "Women" right now anyway, so what does it matter? All I see is exactly what TCE described. Women only seem to want either what they can't have, or some guy who will stomp all over their ass. Okay, fine. If women want to be some chest shaver to kick their ass around emotionally until they get caught with some other chick, and don't want real men, fine. Just remember, you picked it. You get whatever the fuck you deserve, and I don't want to hear any more stories from my female friends about how bad their man is treating them because my answer now, is, Yeah? That's rough. Consider the pedestal broken. Here's a perfect example. I have this friend Holly who pops up from time to time, and of course she's hot, so the world basically revolves around her. She'll send me an email, and I'll email her back, and then it'll be like 3 weeks before it's convenient for her to respond to me. Fuck that crap. Y'all can chase my ass for a while. And until I find someone to treat me right the way I deserve, if I need curves, action and something that looks smokin' hot, I'll go buy another fuckin' guitar! Cactus Al is Dead. Long Live "Daddy Rose". (what my girls call me)

Long live DADDYY ROSE>>>YAY!!! And just for the rcord I don't advocate the abuse of women...I just refuse to tolerate abuse FROM them....and for those of you who didn't or wouldn't or couldn't read between the lines...I'm not sayin nice guys are bad guys and sometimes nice guys do well but what I was trying to do is kinda give both of my good friends a wake up call ...maybe a tough love kinda thing...these guys have both been abused and I think they are just beginning to realise it...and in their cases being Mr. Nice Guy just kept allowing the abuse to continue...sometimes ya just gotta pick yer balls up off the floor and say BYE BYE Now Gabe and Kim...you guys are so cute and are a perfect match...and an exception to the rule I believe!! TAz

Daddy Cactus Rose, Don't get me wrong................I'm not saying women are the enemy..............I'm as fucked up as they are...............they are just different. They wanted to be our equals, and when we began treating them as such, they bitched about that. Why do you think these Emo Fags look like girls? You know, the ones who dress like Edward Scissorhands? Because they're sensitive................and can be walked all over like a doormat!! Dude, if they weren't different, what would the allure be? But like I said, after a while, sex is sex. Bad sex is as good as great sex, and none of it is ever as good as self sex, because there are too many extra elements to consider. Fly solo for awhile, and focus on the things that you love (other than women) you'll be clearer of mind, and then what's really important will work it's way into your life. If it isn't important, you'll keep it at arms length (no pun). TCE

Women want normal people. Which is basically what everyone wants, there is no secret code or anything like that. Almost every woman I know reads those aforementioned magazines for fun or cheap thrills (or, the admittedly wondrous hairstyles), only the truly ridiculous take them seriously. I don't have any clue what any of you guys is going through, but I'm pretty sure the solution to your problem is not to become mysognistic crazy person. That makes you an asshole, no one likes assholes but other assholes. Just relax. Stuff happens in its own time.

And also let me add............................any guy who hits a woman (unprovoked), is a fucking needle dick faggot pussy who's too afraid to hit a real man. If it's provoked, well hey, then it's provoked. Do unto others......... Over and out

deirdre now thats what i like--> a lady with a brain and the nerve to enter into this idiotic rant i have been sitting here reading this stupidity and trying to remain calm and you helped put a smile back on my face thanks! now to the rest of ya . . . human beings are FUCKED thats all! not women not men Its the whole figgin lot of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so that being said: TCE wrote: "They wanted to be our equals, and when we began treating them as such, they bitched about that." Just remember that everytime you post on this messageboard that it was a woman ME who supported her family for three years as Gabe built this site from a dream to a reality. I worked my ass off to be a partner and friend who even so though at times I HATE Gabe's dream (TattooNOW) I understand that if I have made a commitment to him and having a life together where we walk on our separate paths next to each other as EQUALS. Taz wrote: "Now Gabe and Kim...you guys are so cute and are a perfect match...and an exception to the rule I believe!! " Yup we are! Heres the qualities we looked for in a mate as opposed to voluptous belly dancers with tattoos: stubborn adventerous opinionated driven and wicked-smart!!!!!!! Now think about those daughters of yours Al and re-read this thread and imagine that these rants were all about them . . . Next take a minute to write down what kind of women you hope they grow up to be And then start looking for that . . . . And burn all your copies of Maxim and Cosmo :-P Kim Lee Ripley TattooNow

Deirdre, Does anyone really wear the clothes they show in those magazines? TCE

Yay Kim! And no, one one does wear those clothes. I mean, I guess someone must, but not real people. Well....I do like a shiny purse or skirt now and again, but that's because I'm part raven or magpie or something, I like shinies. And more yay'ing for Kim. The reason why I like my fiance is because he's a fucking genius, he's funny, and we can have croquet battles (there can be only one! *highlander noises*). I'd love him even if he wasn't an extremely hot guy (it is a plus, don't get me wrong heh) but mostly I love him because he is -not- an asshole. And guess what, magical secret, I met him on the internet playing video games. I didn't even know what the fuck he looked like for months, almost a year. So, personality and all, yadda yadda yadda. We've been together for 5 years, or more...honestly I'm not good with dates. There's nothing wrong with looks, or liking how a woman looks, but choosing a mate based on them is not the best idea. What you get is a relationship based on looks. I know I like constantly being judged and evaluated in my relationship based on the way I make myself up every day, whether I've gained weight or not, if I've parted my hair the right way.... I guess the best thing I can say is that lumping -anyone- into -any- group with imaginary traits is stupid. Women, bellydancers, people on this forum, anyone. Everyone is completely different and there's no way to even begin to know someone with surface judgements or assumptions. Oh yes, you know what happens when we assume, you make an ass out of you and me. So...uh, in closing... *picture of Jesse Jackson holding a rainbow* We're all in this together, fuckers.

Kim I just LOVE your take on this but I don't agree that its an idiotic subject...people ARE human and sometimes get lost in their relationships and a couple of these guys are definately lost...I STILL firmly believe that IN GENERAL...women do not want a Mr. nice guy....I've seen the nice guys get chewed up to many times. But hey I am a pretty blunt person and call it like I see it...thats my story and I'm stickin to it!! TCE...make NO doubt...I do NOT advocate violence against women! That should stand without even sayin!!! However neither do I think men should take abuse from a woman just because she is a woman!...And of course it works both ways...no person should take abuse from ANYONE PERIOD!!!! Life is too short to allow another person to make you miserable...no one should put their life on hold for another for any length of time...What i'm tryin to say in my roundabout way is ...be nice till its time to not be nice

>>Kim I just LOVE your take on this but I don't agree that its an idiotic subject.<< * I did not say this was an idiotic subject just an idiotic RANT its a fine subject . . . I might even say its a basic human desire to figure out through communication/conversation how to co-exsist and share joy and pain >>..people ARE human and sometimes get lost in their relationships and a couple of these guys are definately lost<<< fine, but i wished you emphasized the PEOPLE and HUMAN as opposed to making this sound more about sad men and crappy women from my experience people rarely get lost in bad relationships instead they get lost in their own histories and bad experiences and when two people come together with baggage it spills its all in how you deal with your own shit how you view other people with love as opposed to accusation and lets me really cheesey for a minute it about learning to know and love yourself >>>...I STILL firmly believe that IN GENERAL...women do not want a Mr. nice guy....I've seen the nice guys get chewed up to many times. But hey I am a pretty blunt person and call it like I see it...thats my story and I'm stickin to it!!<<< you can stick to whatever story you want but its antiquated nice guys dont finish last blah blah blah women dont have to act dumb to win a man and BTW although I know some guys who swear its true: men do not HAVE to cheat these are all symptoms of bigger issues one y'all might wanna see a shrink for instead of consulting the experts on a tattoo messageboard LOL

Im sorry for the men on the board who need a wake up call, but to tell us women dont like nice guys because you've seen some guys get taken advantage of is completely absurd. As far as whom abuses whom on a statistical level, men abuse women like a ten to one.

If someone, any gender, is dressing according to a magazine, they're an idiot. The way you look shouldn't define who you are. It seems like people are expecting too much from the opposite sex. We all have our problems. You just have to find someone who's problems don't seem that bad too you. And all I have to say is THANK YOU KIM for showing that a good relationship takes work! It's not about the differences between men and women, it's about communication. Tell people what you want and act like a decent human being and you'll find someone perfect. Dana Z

And as far as being an exception, I dont buy it. Sure Im lucky to be where Im but Im not doing anything that others cant do just as easy. Work hard, be smart, think positively, have integrity, and be the best you can be all the time(or a little better) and good things will happen.

Women don't like nice guys, my ass. People generally chose the wrong companion because they didn't have good examples of relaitonships when they were younger...not all but alot. I LOVE my husband, and he is the nicest guy I've ever met. I wouldnt' be with an asshole. You can be a nice guy and not be a pushover..there is a difference. And deirdre...my husband's hot as hell in my mind too, and yeah it does help...but I definitely agree that I sure as hell wouldn't be with him if he didn't make me laugh and wasn't fucking brilliant! DanaZ

Wow! Now that's what I call a Thread! That's more like it! Some real discussion! Now, let me go back and restate my position. Here's what I've found. What I want my daughters to be is kind, strong, smart, compassionate, and find a good man who loves them for who they are. I hope they will find that by the stuff that I teach them as they grow up. I'm doing a wake-up call on myself because I'm a pretty great guy, and I tend to really treat women outstandingly... I have so freaking many of you in my life, I'd better love ya, or I'd be in real trouble. I think everyone will agree that I love women. However, I have definitely noticed that if I don't stand up to women as a man, I will be walked on. I don't think it should be that way, and I'm sick of it. That's me. So now, I'm fixed. However, I've noticed a lot of shit going on with me, but also in society in general these days that places a really fucked up emphasis one what male/female relationships are. Women are not all bitches at all, but by the same token, nobody has the right to walk on anyone just because you think you are hot. Pretty girls do pretty well in our society these days. KNOWING THIS, AND AGAINST MY BETTER JUDGEMENT, I am going to teach my daughters to be kind and compassionate and real anyway. Oh well. Oh, however, I will also teach them to be throw down brutal. In final, here's what I've learned. I'm a pretty great guy, but no woman wants a doormat. I'm not an asshole, but I'm not going to be taken advantage of anymore either. Nobody looking at me would think you could, so I've decided to stop letting people do it. I don't put up with it from men, and I'm not going to put up with it from women either.

That's right, assholes are assholes no matter what happens to be dangling (or not dangling) between their legs. Not tolerating jerks is a fine thing to do. And Dana...I knew it was true love when we played co-op Halo and started shouting militairy commands at each other. Ain't love grand?

Yeah, love is grand! I knew it was love when my hubby and I created a new game called handysac! Now you might think that's dirty...but it's not! It's when you bounce a hackysac on a bed to the other person and try to keep it going as long as possible! Anyone that can make up and play a stupid game like that with me, and throughouly enjoy it, is my kinda guy! Dana Z

hehehe

ladies, I got a email address and website :-P btw i am sure your men are HOT but until you know the sensation of silky sexy flamingo feathers you havent known sexy bbbwwwwwwwwwwwaaaahahaaaahahahaaahahahahahahahaha k

As I said earlier: I'm as fucked up as anyone............ Women are not the enemy.............. Unless it's provoked................. Everyone has their price.......... Those who don't believe it often find themselves in an unexpected precarious situation. What I didn't say earlier: I just don't give a shit!!! It's not something that occupies any significant time in my life, thankfully. TCE

First off Gabe I was addressing your great ( or by what I can see of it great) relationship with your wife and not your success in business...business is not the subject here my man...we all know that you (and Kim) have worked really hard to get where you are, and we all appreciate your efforts.... I think maybe my metaphor" nice guy" could have been better named "doormat guy" and whether you believe it or not just because you guys are lucky enough to have a great relationship there are a bunch of people who do not and thats what we were addressing....the doormats as Al put it who are treated like doo doo because they are trying to "be the nice guy (or girl)" and are trampled in the process...I still firmly believe that women do not want doormats...except to use and then throw away...and yes it applies the other way around too and ok you have your opinion...but you will never convince me that mine is absurd just because you don't agree with me I refuse to wear rose colored glasses or live in a pretend utopia where everyone is nice and treats everyone else with dignity...sorry but that just ain't the world we live in...ask Al...ask Jwerk... And again I am speaking in GENERAL I am not lumping every woman in the same pudding...again you are certainly entitled to your opinion but then so am I and it is NOT absurd...its REALITY.. Lets do this...now that Al has turned over a new leaf and if he sticks to it...lets see just how differently he is going to be treated...now that he has cast off the doormat cape he has been wearing my money is on a whole new world with a lot more respect we will see won't we?..hmmmm?...TAz

I don't disagree with you...doormat is completely different than nice guy...the doormat doesn't think about him/her self enough and just caves in. This is not a good thing. And unfortunately you're right and the world is full of people who don't treat one another with respect. A one sided conversation gets no where if you only focus on the good or bad...you need to talk about both and the grey area in between. So in other words...some PEOPLE suck, not all people suck, some people find love/ companionship easier than others, some people have to go through more shit...it's all grist for the mill. I don't think this is just a conversation about the people who don't have great relationships, it's about relationships in general...it all ties together. Not all great relationships are great all the time and not all bad relationships are bad all the time. You need to talk about the good to figure out how to get through the bad. Dana Z

Amen.......

Don't you know I'm numb, man No I can't feel a thing at all 'Cause it's all smiles and business these days And I'm indifferent to the loss I think that there's a soul somewhere that's leading me around I wonder if she knows which way is up, and which is down Here I stand, sad and free I can't cry, and I can't see What I've done... Oh God what have I done? I poured my heart out I poured my heart out It evaporated...see?

Taz, I wasnt talking about business at all, I was talking about how I found the perfect woman for me. And I did that by bucking down and bettering myself and being a nice guy. While I am generous to a fault sometimes, Im certainly not a doormat. Of course that carries over in both my personal and business life, but obviously because of the subject of the conversation I was talking 100% about what I did to find the perfect person. Oh sure, I may be the golden exception to the rule, I found what looks to be true love, but you can understand from my perspective I didnt do anything any other schmuck couldnt do. Doormat is a fine term and miles different than "nice (insert gender here)". I think the biggest issue throughout all of this is assigning a gender to the problem. I have no fucking rose colored glasses on, I know and have known a zillion people as you can imagine and have business and personal relationships with many people who dont understand respect or dignity. As they show their true colors I leave them behind without a second thought. Well, I am a pinko fag liberal so I probably always leave a little thought to open the door again someday, though there are folks whom I doubt will ever be able to make their way back into my world. I learned those lessons long ago and continue to learn them every day it seems. I never need you to tell me the world aint fair, that people suck, or my vision of utopia is rose colored. I do think its silly to have the opinion that women dont like nice guys because some folks have been acting like doormats and letting women walk over them because that simply ISNT reality. In fact women (and men) DO LIKE nice people and NOT doormats. That is, maybe I think its absurd to assume that nice guys are doormats. Of course I imagine that if people stop being pushovers they will be more successful at finding love. Indeed, the best strategy, if indeed there can be one, is to find out how to make yourself better and happier person every day and then you will attract like minded happy better people and one of them will want to share their life with ya. I doubt looking for love by being a bad boy will cause anything but frustration. Lastly, as the hook to get me out of this conversation, I tell ya all that I am the LAST person on earth anyone should listen to talk about relationships. I really am an antisocial computer geek who had like one girlfriend before I got married. Good luck guys and gals, natures rough and gives a shit less about your love life as long as the population is growing.

He He! And I got all this going on a tattoo forum!

Gabe ol son...I am not even gonna bother explaining myself again lets just leave it at...we agree to disagree....I think my way you think yours...ain't it great that we can do that without callin names and gettin mad and other such silly stuff?...I stick to my beliefs...Nice guys finish last...women (IN GENERAL) do not want "nice guys"...been proven time and again...but you believe what ya want pal....Thanks for your opinion though!...T

hey, thats cool. I love not getting mad and not name calling. And hey, Im all about diversity of thought. There are many ways to get to the top, see ya there.

Gabe, If I make it on top, I better not see you there.........................LOL! TCE

ha!

Hey Gabe, I'm gonna call you out on that last post just a little bit. In a very gentlemanly way I mean, of course. I think we all know Taz is maybe not necessarily the most "velveteen" person in the world, but I don't think in his defense that he's taking all this as seriously as your last post would seem to suggest. What's up? Bad day? (No, I'm serious, not being condescending...)

Wow, I leave and you guys get busy talking about serious stuff. I see how it is. Just my two cents here..... People are people.... I have issues with both sides of the gender. When it comes down to it, I honestly just believe that -everyone- has the power to be a cold hearted ass. Those magazines? Cosmo especially? For gods sake, I don't know anyone who would take them seriously, and I'm embarassed to even read the cover pages of them at the grocery store counter while I'm waiting in line. In the end, just be who you -really- are. Not who you think everyone else wants. I'd say most of the major problems I've had in relationships were when someone was making themselves out to be something that they were not, or when someone was having a battle within themselves that needed dealing with (and sometimes, that was me.) I'd say... clear out your baggage, be happy with who you are, and heal up from the things that have happened to you. There are good people out there..... think of it like panning for gold. You have to sift through some mud and silt to find the pretty shiny stuff.

I dont take *anything* on this messageboard seriously! Im not sure what needs calling out on my last post...? Taz thinks nice guys dont win, I believe that nice guys have an advantage, and I believe we all agree that doormats need to be happy in that position or change to a partner who doesn't want a doormat. Either way, we will all hopefully win and hang out at the finish line. I put $10 down that the nice guy get there first and stays the longest.

Saiyge, I knew you'd be the voice of reason.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Okay, so I'm kissing ass!!!! TCE

Nah, I'm not the voice of reason. I'm so far from being able to reason right now that I dont know why I'm not rocking back and forth in a corner somewhere. The search here is -not- going well.

Jed,,,,,,,,,move away from there...............Californee's the place you wanna be.........

Saiyge..........that is.

My God....That was one hell-of-a discussion.... I know that as humans it is natural to what to find our sense of belonging, sense of security, and sense of self worth. Sometimes we find it in things like tattooing, computer web design/ visual arts, being a Mom or Dad, being a good friend, etc.... I also know that we all handle loss differently. Some of have the natural ability to cope. Some rely on others to helps them through their darkest of times. And some unfortunately trun to drugs, alcohol, and even suicide. I know this because I have been there because I lost the person that I "knew" I was ment to be with. Not because of death but because somethings can't be taken back and people change and move on. Love is an all-be-it drug. It can be exciting, make you feel invincible, make you feel alive. But it can cut you down, take your wind, and leave you on the floor. There is no doubt when it is good we crave it, need it, want it, gotta have it. But when it's bad, there is no other sickness that compares with emptiness, insecurity, and loneliness. And no man made medicene can make any of that go away any quicker than "time". Think about this.... A man an woman where married for many, many years. The day unfortunately came when the woman died and as everyone left the funeral and cemetary the son of the man said, " Dad, if you ever want to come here to talk to mom justlet me know." The old man simply nodded his head. That same night the son and father had dinner together and when he was through the old man said, "Son, I would like to go talk to your mother." The son looked up from he plate and replied, "But dad, we just burried her today. Don't you think this a bit soon?" The old man said, "No. I want to go talk to your mother." Reluctantly the son agreed and then drove to the cemetary after they had finished. At the cemetary the son stood back and watched his father slowly walk over to the gravestone and kneel down. Very simplely the old man said, "Honey, today was a good day." He rose back to his feet and turned towards his son who was now crying. The old man ask, "What's wrong, Son?" And he replied, "Dad, you just said today was a good day. How can today be a good day?" The old man put his arm around hie son and said, " Son, I love your mother very much. I always wanted her to go before me so she would never have to feel the pain that I am feeling now. So that makes today a good day." If we are fortunate enough to find love like that, then yes Al, we will have struck it rich..... Jason