Lebanon Israel conflict

What do you think about current event in the Near East? How long will this conflict be lasting? Are you for or against Israel's position?

Got this from Nick Baxter's website. Havnt watched it yet... Maybe tomorrow morning will be internet video watching day....

This one is gonna be interesting Gabe... Not too many people are going to understand this video unless they understand the history of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. This one is really easy to just say "Well, I hate those radical fundamentalist Islamic bastards. Who cares what they get!" I wonder as this thread progresses how many people will be able to separate islamic terrorism from this particular conflict. My opinion is this (and none of it can be summed up in a neat little package) Fundamentalist Islamic Terrorist who are hell bent on wiping out the west need to be destroyed. They cannot, for many, many reasons be reasoned with. That said, here's a little story Once upon a time, there was a really big war. During that war, the fabric of Europe was torn to pieces on many levels. There was this unhumanly evil guy named Hitler who decided to make it his legacy to wipe out an entire race of people, and uprooted and misplaced and killed like over 7 million people in the process. He did unspeakable things in the name of god only knows what. So eventually, people from literally all over the place are relocated to death camps throughout Germany from wherever they were from before. This created an unnatural, and horrific situation. So the good guys eventually came, beat the bad guys and rolled into Germany to find a scene unlike anything witnessed in the history of humanity. People more than half dead in camps in Germany who didn't belong there, and could not go home, because there was no home to go back to. The Germans had destroyed in most cases any former reality the people had, there was nowhere, and no one in most cases to go home to. So, what should be done? Well, the good guys who won aren't really sure what to do, but they know something needs to be done, so they ask the people, where do you want to go? The people of course say "Home". which is no longer left. So they say, where's home? Everybody looks around and says Historically, Jarusalem neighborhood. Palestine. So, the good guys say, okay, it's yours. Go home. And the people do. Except when they get there, there's already a group of people living there. And those people say, hey wait a minute, I live here. I'm kinda using it right now. The good guys say, well we won, so we can do what we want, so move over. And the Palestinians go hey wait a minute.... but Israel is formed as a Soverign nation anyway... Fast forward to today.... Who's fault is this mess? Is it the Palestinians fault? Some would say so... I mean, they don't exactly use "civilized channels" to air their greviances. But what channels am I talking about? Someone took their land. Who is listening? Who is listening? Is it the Jewish people's fault? Some would say so, but if you were historically kicked around the way you had been, and then systematically watched as 7 million of you were killed, wouldn't you say "Never Again"? No matter how you got your future, wouldn't you be willing to fight to defend it? What about all the other little groups of people who don't actually have anything to do with this conflict at all, but just seem to keep stirring things up, like Hammas? If you were them, would you allow the world to forget that there are still human rights violations happening in Israel every day? Would you stir things up? If you were Israel, would you let them do it?? Who are the good guys here? Who are the bad guys here?? Is Hammas the same thing as the PLO? Is the PLO a terrorist organization? Were the American Continental Army terrorists?? None of this is cut and dry. As you will note, I am taking no sides in this arguement, because I think there is more than enough blame to go around for everyone. But one thing is obvious. If you break it all down, whatever your beliefs are, you may find that the bad guys, which ever side you think is bad, may not be as bad as you think. Think about it.

i think we the US need to keep our nose out of it and mind our own business. it ain't got shit to do with us. shit let them kill each other. but as we know bush will fuck up and we'll be part of it. bush fucks everything else up so why wouldn't he.

What's good for the goose..............well, you know.......and besides, how else do you send a loud and clear message? If Lebanons government is powerless to keep these fucks under control, then I guess someone else is just gonna have to take care of it. Oh well.. TCE

...........and Ink, well, you just answered your own question...........or something. Because you know he's going to stick his 2 cents in, it then does become our business................yet how do we stop it from happening? TCE

i'm not going to say much on the situation, bc i'm a paranoid lil shit... but i'll say this: isolationism isn't the answer. HOWEVER. usa has been bowing to israel for way too long, backtrack through history and you can see how this country has been manipulated and controlled by that country -- however the govt has let it happen because they are the island among muslim nations. they are the 'underdog' our country likes to 'protect' and they are a powerful ally. i wish i wasn't sick/sleep deprived. i've actually a lot to say on the whole matter -- but i need to have my wits about me to present it intelligently, with points of reference, and still feel safe/ok about it. food for thought though: if israel pushes this too far (farther than they already have) and syria and iran get involved (ie the muslim republic as a whole takes a stand) what kind of jeopardy will that place our troops fighting in iraq? these countries border iraq -- if we truly anger them in our support of israel, and our lack of support for lebanon -- can we really expect them not to retaliate against the troops currently overseas? if this thread is still running in a few days i'll add more than just 1 cent, i'll make it a full 2 cents.

Gotta think about this and do some research before I offer any opinion

Honestly, the Lebanon/Israel conflict is nothing new. It's been going on for centuries, not necessarily under the same name. There's been fighting in the middle east for as long as people have inhabited it. Especially where the Jews are concerned. I'll stand by my, if there's peace in the middle east, the world will end, view. However, I think we, as in the US, need to stop getting involved.. it's just going to cause more feelings like the ones that caused 9/11. It will eventually fizzle out, if we stay out of it, they're perfectly capable of dealing with this themselves.

Al- very well written. thanks, k

ok a few more points: yes this is a centuries old conflict . . . so the Allied support post WWll is simply the tip of an iceberg far larger than the one that sank the Titanic and for clarifaction: not all Jews support(ed) the Zoinist movement (the group that demanded a homeland in Palestine after the war) and not all Palestinians are Muslims they are also Christians

I am not very up to date on this subject other than the history behind Isreal's occupation, but I do know that it is sad that more men have died for religous beliefs than for any other conflict. Blacktri

I don't kmow how many of you bothered to watch the vid Gabe put up but I'd suggest you do, then perhaps you'll have a much more informed grasp on the situation. It should also make you alot more aware of just how the 'news media' in this country can and does effect how we perceve things and THAT too is something we all need to be aware of as it influences our view of a situation based on what were told, not neccessarily the truth, and NOT just with this situation but on virtually any subject. As to any who may be thinking this isn't our problem, I'd like to point out that it most assuritively IS, in that we, the US, is backing Israel who, in turn is the 'mortal enemy' of most of the 'middle east', thereby dragging us, the USA into their hatred and conflict and it is escalating, not getting better. Watch the vid, do some thinking about that, our 'wars' on Iraq and Afganistan and I'd think you should be better able to understand why so many people are hating the US and why we need to get more involved with what our government is doing before we dragged into a war like none we've ever seen before. And before you critisize me as an alarmist or 'paranoid', open your eyes and minds, we have enemies developing nuclear bombs and an 'enemy' who's not afraid of committing suicide to kill the enemy, as well as a 'news media' that only tells us what the powers that be WANT us to know and how THEY want us to think, based on what 'they' tell us. THINK about it, I know it sucks but sometimes ya just gotta deal with reality and I do think that time is NOW...Doc

I'm curious as to how many of you guys feel that we as a nation should discontinue our age old policy of changing the world and making it safe for democracy as it were?...Doesn't seem to be working real well now does it?...I mean think about it ...we are probably the most hated and despised nation in existence ...well that is unless they want us to feed them or give em weapons or bail out their economies... What do YOU think??...CAN we "mind our own business/" SHOULD we mind our own business?...

I honestly think we SHOULD mind our own business, but I'm not sure if we can actually do it. Of course, isolationism isn't the best policy.. but I'm not sure if democracy can even work in some countries.. especially countries where monarchies have been the norm for thousands of years..

Taz, I personally think we should we, the American government as it were, should definitely stop trying to change the world but I don't foresee that happening when I think the real, underlying issue is not so much 'world peace' as it is greed and the desire to dominate, plus the FACT that while we (again, the government actually) profess to want peace, the sad fact is some people make huge profits when we are at war, there are BILLIONS of dollars involved. I too think that may well be why this country IS so hated by other countries as THEIR leaders make very sure their people know the truth, while ours tries to brainwash us into believing their agendas, which, as I stated previously, our news media plays right into. And the fact, mentioned previously, that they know and are counting on the fact that most Americans don't CARE what's going on in the rest of the world, we're too self absorbed to do that and they KNOW that. Personally, I've long felt the money being spent for all these other agendas could have been spent here in the USA but I guess there isn't as much profit in doing that...Doc by the way, if you haven't watched that vid, I think ya should, it's about 1:19 but it is 'enlightening', check it out.

Taz this is a very interesting question, and I have mixed feelings towards this, in one aspect I would love for us to quit giving aid and support to other countries many that will not cover our backs when needed, but we still need partners in this new world, and if we isolate ourselves we are the proverbial sitting duck with us then needing a strong country to help, we would be at someone elses mercy, Not Good. Blacktri

Doc...I'm sorry which video?...there are a bunch floatin around and I can't keep track!

Taz, the one at the top of this post, put up by Gabe, just click on the pointer on the bottom left corner...Doc

A child goes to school and is picked on. Not only is that child picked on his/her bullies do horrible things to them. This kid grows more and more resentfull as the years go on. One day this kids going through move. when he/she gets settled into thier new place they realize thier ability to fight back and stops the bully. Feeling vendicated by this new found power the former child becomes the bully because it feels safer to them. The kid forgets the torment he/she felt all those years ago. This is not a pertect view of the situation but a pretty close one. Arab states terrorized the Isreali state in hopes to expell them from the small area given to them. For a short time isreal was the lil kid being picked on. As they grew into thier situation the Isrealies found ways to deal with thier threats and became victorious. Now that they have had the upper hand for 20 or so years they have turned the tables. they now terrorise the the ones who used to terrorise them. There are many angles to this conflict and there will probably never be a true end to things just luls and peaks. But hey we gotta have something to whatch on CNN.

If everyone would just stay the fuck out of it and let them kill each other, the fighting would be over a lot sooner. Yes, Israel has defied the U.N., but so has the U.S., and we're in no position to intervene in the situation until we intervene in our own. We're basically both outlaw states, acting on the premise of self defense, and rooting out terrorists....................... TCE

I believe this is a situation that we should stay out of. If we go in, and pick a side, we are going to see more hatred towards this country than we already do. A lot of countries view us as bullies, hate our ideals, and think that we are horrible law breakers. It's only going to get worse the more we attempt to 'help'. We also have no business helping. That feud has been going on longer than most of us have been alive, and it's not our place to go in and play 'happy peacemaker'. This is how they've chosen to deal with it, and as sad as it is, they need to finish it. That conflict is never going to get resolved, and tons more people are going to die over it. I hate that it's come down to what it is. I really do wish that something could be done, but in reality, it can't.

Again, folks, I really believe you should watch the vid posted above, even if you aren't particularily interested in the particular subject, the vid gives you an excellent example on just how the news media can/does influence how most people perseve things, THAT alone makes the vid worth watching, I'd really suggest watching it. Gabe, I hope you di/did watch it, as I'm certain YOU will understand what I'm talking about, as well as how it influences peoples thinking on a given topic in the news...Doc

Doc John, It's just like Wild Kingdom.....................and Jerry Seinfeld said this..................if the program is about lions and their survival, and the lion is shown chasing a gazelle, the viewer roots for the lion. If the program is about the poor plight of the persecuted gazelles, and the gazelle is shown being chased by a lion, then the viewer roots for the gazelle............ If the program is about the incensed Israelies, or is about the persecuted Palestinians......................... It's all in how the scene is presented, and our own affairs reflect no differently depending on where in the world you get your news. So, yes, I absolutely agree with you. TCE

TCE, glad to see someone grasp my point but, then again, I think you're a bit more informed and capable of thinking on your own than some (most?) which is why I'm hoping more folks will view that vid as, again, I think it's an excellent example on how public opinion can be influenced by the news media, which, obviously is where most folks get their information...Doc

OK. Here we go, I am sure that my political incorrectness will shine through here, and most likely piss someone off, but.......... Heres the way I see it. There have been wars there since the beginning of time, and no resolve has ever been found for any government or political party. With this in mind, I believe the US should step in. Just not as we have in the past.... we need to quit pussy-footing around, and quit playing games with these fucks, forget about deploying troops, forget about negotiations. we need to just bomb the hell out of all of them, leave nothing alive. then doze over everything, put up some pre-fabbed homes, a McDonalds and a Checkers on every other corner and call that bitch our 51st state you cant kill an infection, untill you remove the source. and you cant have peace untill complete global conquest has happened. Mortis

Mortis, Is that to say that in order to kill the mosquitos, you have to clean out the swamp...........................................hmmmmmmmm? Finally, the voice of reason!!!!!!!! Good to hear from you!! Doc John, I don't feel that I'm well informed at all, I'm a high school drop out with no GED, not a scholar who majored in social or political science...........................a lot of this is simple logic. TCE

Gabe...thanks for bringin this vid to our attention....It is a shining example of media bias and "spin doctors"...sadly most people who read that term will think,"hey I saw that show on the tee vee!" Good thought provoking video though...THANKS!!

TCE, well, you say you're not that well informed but I still think your insight and comments show you do have a better than average view of things but I do agree than much of this IS simple logic. As to the part that you don't have any fancy scholastic education, some of the dumbest people I've encountered are those educated assholes who have never had an original idea in their lives, they let others tell 'em what to think and how to think. Mortis, with all the 'diplomacy' and political bullshit there's no way your plan would work. Pussyfooting and game playing is what the world has become and is perhaps at least part of why the world IS like it is. Ya got a bunch of pussy m.f.'s that haven't the balls to do things the right way, prefer all this 'politically correct' b.s. that has gotten us to this point. Personally I agree with ya, if they fuck with us, level the bastards, they and their kind won't be back to cause future troubles. But, on the other hand, we should also be a bit more careful the shit we start, support and/or fund that's creating the backlash. Taz, I'm glad to see you apparently did watch that vid and understand what I was refering to about the media, knew ya would once ya watched it, thought provoking indeed...Doc

Doc John, TAz, Gabe, Because of the slanted view the media provides, short of being there and seeing every instance of conflict first hand, it's impossible for any of us to clearly understand what's really going on in any of these regions. For us to get upset and to begin choosing sides in affairs that need not concern us is ridiculous, because as we've seen, once enough evidence to the contrary of what we once believed to be infallable information comes to light, our views can sometimes change. TCE

Choosing sides in things that don't concern us?....TIM!!!! BAD TIM !!...BAD!!!!! Of course it concerns us...this atrocious crap concerns every human on earth since I think the situation in the Middle East could possibly nay PROBABLY lead us directly or indirectly into world war III!!!!!.....We just need to know that there are avenues of information other than the biased media that we can pursue. For instance...I am not willing to say that I believe everything in the video above...so I made it a point in the past few days to talk to people who are much closer to the situation...one was a jewish man and wife recommended by a rabbi whose yard I mowed as a child...they have many relatives in Israel and many in active military service there...secondly in the past few months I have become friends with a Lebanese family who own a small gas station/convenience store near my home....I am still processing the info I gleaned from these people... I am just saying that somethings gotta change man...I see it coming..The world as we know it is gonna go through some major storms in the next few years....I want my kids and grandkids and friends and family to be able to say," He tried to make a difference!" But I ain't mad at ya Tim!! Fucksicle!!!

listen, fuck jews and fuck isreal i hope that peice of shit country gets blown of the fuckin map oh yea and fuck the jews!!

OrgName: BellSouth.net Inc. OrgID: BELL Address: 575 Morosgo Drive City: Atlanta StateProv: GA PostalCode: 30324 Country: US Hey dilldoe sniffer! I want to party with you

Hey Rob..is that ol Bobs info there?...I know some people that are pretty close if thats him!!

Triangulate him, and take him to the Pilate!!! TCE

TAz, You already make a difference every day in the arenas of life in which you have infinite wisdom...........................but talking with family members on one side of the fence or the other is still going to provide you with a biased opinion of the situation. I suppose our belief systems are a little different when it comes to this stuff, especially WW III. I happen to really believe what the Bible says about Armageddon, and that it will come in Gods time, but probably through mans devices.............................and also that the purpose of it is not annihalation of the human race, but rather the cleansing of wickedness from the earth. If that turns out to be true, I don't want to be found holding any instrument of destruction, whether it be for survival or self defense. The best I could hope to do is to prolong this temporary life, but at the cost of possible eternal life later on....................nothing in the here and now is worth that to me. But those are my own beliefs, and everyone believes differently. To be honest with you, I will never truly support a war effort unless it is absolutely, without a doubt, in self defense of our own soil...................................which of course opens a whole new can of worms to debate. TCE

I don't know where I really stand on this one,I'm not sure if I fully understand. It does however raise questions in my mind about things that could be going on here at home that just get swept under the rug.This video and the 9/11 cover up have got my head swimmin'

Doesn't Ami James say repeatedly on Miami Ink that he served in the Isreali(sp)army?.............Any feelings on that?

No, just a question.......................why isn't he over there backing the cause?

No, just a question.......................why isn't he over there backing the cause?

Doh, DAMMIT!!!

May I? Thank you. Part of Israel's problem in the middle east is that most people perceive it as the 51st state. Sure, people in the region resent Israel for making its own space among them, but the resent the USA worse for just being the USA. Does Israel have a right to protect its people against its enemies? Of course. But somebody on this post mentioned Adolf Hitler... as i recall, he walked into Czechoslovakia and Austria - just walked in and took over - on the pretext of "protecting" German folks living there from "persecution". And look where that got us. It's a sticky wicket to say what a country's "rights" are; what the ass is a country anyway? What i hate is that innocent people's lives are being disrupted or snuffed out. For this, Hezbollah sucks, and so does the Israeli government. And this fighting affects all of us, whether it degenerates into WWIII or not; and, unfortunately for you in the US, you are already involved. You have been involved in the welfare of the Israeli state since 1948 Where will it end? More to the point, where did it start? Last month? Or when Abraham slept with his wife's handmaiden?

Tim I agree that talking to families directly involved will give me biased opinions but by talking to as many people as possible I think I am doing the closest thing I can do to actually going over there (Lebanon) and seeing for my self...which is obviously not a possiblity....I sure as hell can't trust what the medis here in the states tells us!...I don't know....its fucked up no matter what point of view you have...

TAz, it is a fucked up situation for the people who just want to live and let live.............................kind of like most Iraqi's before the U.S. came blowing through there. Again, we can't tell another nation what to do if we can't tell our own. TCE

You got that right man...I dunno ...I am all for helping out my neighbor...but only if my neighbor WANTS help....its like this...An old lady in my moms neighborhood...her house had seen better days neede paint badly ...well while she was visiting relatives a guy down the street...you know the type will bust his ass for anyone..doesn't know a stranger...well he painted her house a nice robins egg blue...took up a collection for the supplies and the whole neighborhood chipped in and worked on it...when the old lady got home she just cried and cried...we all thought they were tears of joy but when my mom went to visit the next morning she cinfided that ahe absolutely HATED blue !!....Should have asked first I guess!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! OMG Dude, that's the best!!!!! 'We wanted Saddam gone................................but not like this!!".