Modern Tattoo?????

Just took a roadtrip to KC and my buddy had gotten some tattoo magazine or another I think Savage , but i'm not positive. Bout half way through it , there was what i believed to be ONE artist interviewed and plenty of pictures of this person's tattoos. The tattoos were well the lines looked fucked up on purpose, and I should have read the article thoroughly sure but I didn't. Maybe i'm just too closed minded about this. But these looks like 5th grade line drawings you'd send in a folded up paper football across the class to that one girl that had nipples before all the rest. The art was just so damn idk childish looking, amateurish in a sense. His lines( when meant to be) were definately clean and straight lines, which is a great quality in a tattooist. But the images were just so damn hideous to me. And I know that all artistic judgement is subject to opinion, Just wondering what some other ones might be if anyone else happened to see these works.

maybe it's the artist who did this: (www.yourmeatismine.com) Il s'appelle Yann.

I acutally like the stuff. I mean, I wouldn't wear it, but I like it. I think tattoo culture is becoming way to elite, and this guy kind of goes against that whole trend. at least that's how I interpret it.

yes thank you that's the artist I believe. I think the tattoos are done well. But I can't say I enjoy looking at it. About the elite thing I think maybe it's kinda like getting what you asked for. Alot of people have worked lifetimes to bring the industry up to the socially acceptable standards it is now , and I think now there may be some regret for that. Like now we got what we want and we want the old way back. But then you have the art side of it and it is an art, only one that is seen daily by many. Like Dali walking around with his portfolio tied to his back. Not everyone's going to enjoy seeing that art work, especially if it's something as dark and debauchery as Giger. They're great artists in their own rights sure but not everyone come to grips with the images. I used to think the elite thing was the other way around though, like you were in the club when you werent' afraid to wear your ideas and beliefs and your art right out there on your arms and hands and neck and legs where people can see it and see you. And now that it's not so taboo, it kinda takes away some of that I guess. Used to be you were saying something with tattoos and everyone knew it. Granted you can still capture an idea or expression in inked skin ,no doubt there, but the bar's been raised substantially.

I think i see what you're saying... I don't t think that having tattoos make you part of an elite in general society, but the "tattooed community" is getting pretty snobbish. It's like "oh, you got a heart and your name tattooed on you, well I paid 50 million dollars and waited 8 years and got a giant fucking boat tattooed on my ribcage by (xxx big name artist) so therefore I am better than you" I swear I saw a post just like that on this forum before.

There are a couple of French guys (in Paris, I think) doing this sort of Naive stuff. It's interesting, not the sort of stuff I'd go for, but I prefer it to a lot of stuff that is currently popular.

I came across this guys art at some point when I was roaming around the internet and it's definitely interesting. The thing I think about when I see it is that people are getting it because it's different...becuase everyone who sees their tattoo will know it's from this particular artist because his style is so unique. It's interesting, not something I would want, but everyone likes different styles. I was kind of impressed with the tattoos, especially the first one that was posted, because it actually looks like he drew on them with pencil! I'm not a tattoo artist, but I would think it would be difficult to get a tattoo machine to make those kind of marks. Besides, you know that was the effect he was going for, so in that respect it's definitely well done in my book. Dana

Personally I think its quite exciting watching how tattooing is evolving. While I love history, I am definitely more excited by whats to come and have no desire to bring the old days back (Im not too old, but I did get my first few tattoos at old school street shops). There are large parts of modern *culture* in general that I despise and fight against everyday. While hearts and names certainly have their place, as artists push tattooing forward and are capable of so much more, the simple commonplace designs are destined to become "second class tattoos". Just nature. The person wearing the full rib cage piece is not any better of a person (necessarily) but the art they wear on their body probably is(though I've seen hearts and names that are better than rib pieces of course). But it is fair to say that a good quality large custom tattoo is better art than hearts and names. As tattooing approaches fine art more and more you will of course hear "why would any true artist tattoo a heart and name again, its been done ten thousand times before". Obviously the public deserves to get the tattoo they want, not at the whims of an art snob. So as nature works the hearts and names should be done by kick ass artists who are starting out and learning the tools. They get comfortable while knocking out an exceptional heart and name, and as the tattoo artist gets good at tattooing and builds their large custom clientele, the new artists get to practice on the street shop type of tattoos. To me, ultimate success for modern tattooing is that every member of the public who wants is very educated about art and can express themselves visually through large custom tattoos that have true meaning and beauty without a social stigmata. I was never about being part of any cool club, I dont care if the entire world is tattooed or not. I am completely about everyone being the best of who they can be to the max.

amen to all that Gabe

I think it's very interesting to watch this industry transform as well Gabe. And I do agree this type of work in question here is well executed. Just not something I"d add to my collection. I really wanted to see other opinions on this, I also agree that a large custom piece is given more artistic enthusiasm from the artist as well. After 500 hundred or so "In loving memory of ___________" tattoos I would think even the most passionate of artist would lose some interest to some degree. But kind of along the same lines as your post , even the best of painters were working for someone long long before they were given the reputation and means to create their own art. I think alot has to go out to the collectors and clients willing to let the new artist expand their portfolios, from everyday flowers and hearts too new exciting , even innovative desgins. There's alot of trust and communication I think that should go on between an artist and the client to achieve a beautiful piece of art. And that's what I think this style is here a direct reflection of an artist's and client's relationship. And I love it for that fact alone.

keep the responses coming!! I enjoy learning what you all think...

Hmmmm...it all gets a bit tricky when one tries to pin down the whole "Art" thing, 'cos it's a slippery little bugger. "Technical proficiency need not be a barrier to artistic communication."...I read that somewhere in relation to the Velvet Underground and, while it may be true, artistic communication is a hell of a lot easier if the artist knows which end of the brush is the painting end! Still, Vinnie van Gogh wasn't much chop at painting stuff, but was a champion when it came to colouring it in & Georgia O'Keefe's draughtpersonship (note PC) was barely adequate but didn't seem to be a major drawback. That's probably enough for one post, but I've got heaps of (possibly contradictory) things to say about this. And some of it may actually mention tattoos! Does anybody else?

I love the stuff. Some if it is tattoo Dadaism. Anti-art. Meaningless imagery used to mock the pretense that every tattoo should be , "you know, like totally deep and meaningful man!" The sparse imagery is refreshing in a world of way-too-busy tattoos (and maybe an reaction to it).

Exactly. The whole "Is it Art?" question tends to buttress the "Art as a Bourgeois Construct" position. i.e. Going out and spending the equivalent of 3rd World yearly wage on a piece by (Insert Name of Popular Artist Here) can, for some people, say "I am richer than you, I am more knowledgeable about Art than you and, by extension, I am better than you." You've gotta laugh at those types when the dictates of Fashion change and they're left with a house/arm full of dated kitsch.

Although this tattoo art is very simple, unique, and I'm sure many people really love his style..... I think the element of elitism could still be a part of this style of tattoo art. It is very possible that some people may get this style of tattoo to be different and to be able to say I got my tattoo from Il s'appelle Yann. It may just be another way for people to name drop and in essence say "I am better than you because I didn't get *insert tattoo style here* or "I'm in it for the art not the meaning".....which would be the opposite of the "pretense" that all tattoos should have a meaning, but not really any different in quality. I prefer to think that people get his tattoos because they love the style and aren't so concerned with how others will view it, but I think I'd be wrong some of the time. Anyway, just a couple thoughts. Dana

>>Meaningless imagery used to mock the pretense that every tattoo should be , "you know, like totally deep and meaningful man!" LOL yeah dude. to me, it not only mocks that pretense, but just how popular tattoos are in general these days. Imagine a guy walks up to his friends and he's like "dude i just got a giant fucking tattoo on my elbow" and his friends are all "dude that's awesome! hell yeah! sweet! lemme see!" and then he shows them this:

hey dana...pardon my french, but "il s'appelle" means "he calls himself" or "his name is". so the artist's name is Yann. now consider yourself one step closer to being a francophone! <> hey, the main reason people get visable tattoos is to draw some kind of attention to themselves. so there will always be an ego-centric character to the tattoo community. no way to avoid it, really.

my last comment was a response to this quote from dana: >>It may just be another way for people to name drop and in essence say "I am better than you because I didn't get *insert tattoo style here* or "I'm in it for the art not the meaning".....which would be the opposite of the "pretense" that all tattoos should have a meaning, but not really any different in quality. but the brackets made the text dissappear. magic!!!

Sure Reverse Elitism = Elitism (I remember the 70s Grammar School Punks...they were the only ones who could afford to waste money on ripped clothing) and so it goes. I'm sure that there are/will be people who get this style of tattoo for all the wrong reasons.

I don't speak french, I thought that was his name....thanks for correcting me. I don't think you can say that the main reason people get tattoos is to draw attention to themselves, because the reasons behind getting tattoos are as varied as the people getting them. I'm not saying it isn't a reason a lot of people have, I just don't know if I would say it's the MAIN reason. Of course I'm not a tattoo artist, so I don't see people's reasons on a day to day basis. Dana

I believe that most people get tattoos because heaps of other people get tattoos and that they want to be as individual as them (sarcasm). There's the spiritual vacuum that some think they can fill by having totems affixed to themselves. "My cat died => I need a tattoo in rememberance" seems to be (sometimes) the rationalisation of the desire to get some another decoration...and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that sometimes a tattoo can just be a tattoo. N'est-ce pas?

i was getting tattooed yesterday and during a break, another client asked me *whats the symbolism?* i said....uhhhhhh...nothing, i just like the pretty picture?? and art is purely subjective anyway...what appeals to one may not appeal to everyone...i gotta think the first reaction to some of Picasso's art was *what the f@#k????* i can appreciate it and see the attraction but that doesnt mean i want to permanently wear it...

For sure. "Les Demoiselles d'Avignon" is now revered as a cornerstone of modern art, but at the time was so radical that even Picasso, as egotistical a prick as even picked up a paintbrush, wouldn't exhibit it...preferring to have his crew, the avante-garde of Europe, come 'round his place and go, "Pablo! WTF are you thinking!"

thats like these tattoos.. theres a few more here ... http://modblog.bmezine.com/2006/09/30/eddie-pour-la-vie/

ha, I almost find it elitist to second guess other peoples motives for getting tattooed... I think the "merchandization" of tattoos is horrible (people who want a tattoo but dont really know why or care, they just want it and/or people who want the best just because they want to brag). Tattooing should be about expressing your self visually and/or capturing a moment in time. I dont think that tattoos need to have deep meaning to be effective, but I do believe that the visual arts are one of the most effective communication languages and to some degree your tattoos do project meaning into the world whether you like it or not... Even if its just "I like pretty pictures".

I agree Gabe...well said.

i'm with ya 100% gabe..i wasnt demeaning anyones tattoo or reason for getting them...mine just dont happen to symbolize anything precisely...i've gotten just flash junk in the past, of course each one has its own story and history but ....when i found tattoonow it hit me *CUSTOM ART*!!! i am such a dumbass... i'm working on my first custom piece thats ever-growing i love the whole process of collaborating with an artist, his interpretation of my thoughts, researching ideas, and seeing the progression of ink develop over time...The whole process kicks ass! i like seeing my skin become art, creating my own skin history maybe...and making the commitment to lifelong wear...at this point i see no end except in lack of skin space...even if its still a pretty picture..is that visual expression? i meant no offense to the tattoo community, i just cant say...this symbolizes *fill in the blank* this is why i rarely post... i suck at giving good text ...lol

to xDarkest Hourx or whatever, hey you just taught me something. This style appears to be pretty popular, particularly in france. I did some clicking around from that link you posted. Tanks! to, umm, gabe and melissa and everybody else i guess... hey, i never said I wasn't elitist ;) I love tattoos, all kinds, and the people that get them, just as much as I make fun of the whole thing. That's just my nature. I think that human beings are interesting, funny creatures. Don't take me too seriously, I'm just an internet geek. Of course, I hope I didn't offend anybody. Would any of you wear this style of art? the more I look at it, the more it grows on me.

hey wo...jeez, i'm the last one to be offended...i find most things just too funny...like the girl asking me my symbolism...it crossed my mind to make something up for her but i couldnt have done it with a straight face anyway...its growing on you??? like its growing on that forearm? or more like a fungus..i'm joking!!! to each his own but me? i wouldnt wear it...too limiting...but again, i can appreciate someone elses expression

wo...Totally not offended...I just think it's an interesting conversation! Interesting topics always have different opinions! No, I don't think I'd wear that...I like color too much. Definitely different though. I just think it would suck if you ever got tired of black...then what would you do...can't cover over it! Melissa, I agree...custom work rocks! I love seeing it develop! My only problems right now are lack of money and impatience on getting more work done on my tattoo! Dana

hey dana i SO love it...it grew into my whole freakin back and its not even the *original* idea....what a surprise for my hub when he comes home from germany next week, huh? no kidding, i'm loving it and wishing i had a decent pic..a mirror just doesnt capture the whole image, its mostly outline and background anyway...but its awesome and perfect for me

This is the type of discussion I like to see on this forum. When wo responded to the initial post and put up the photos the topic took off! Everyone had good stuff to share. I once read that a tattoo should symbolize something. None of the tattoos I have symbolize anything. I just like the way they look.

yeah, it has been a good discussion! Personally, I need the art on my body to mean something. I use the work on my body as a way to learn more about myself and in a sense get closer to some form of enlightenment. However, I'm totally cool with other people just enjoying art on their body that might not have a particular meaning....especially cause there are some kick ass tattoos out there that are just beautiful and the person didn't go in with a meaning to portray! On the other hand, I do think that on some level all body art means something, even if the person didn't have a meaning in mind. Your tattoos say something about you, so at least in that basic way, they mean something. Dana

great discussion everyone. we need to have more like these. awesome.

At the very least that stupid tattoo you got of a skull when you were 18 , will always hold some meaning as far as the memory of getting it is concerned. I have some pretty stupid tattoos , worst one being a stick figure princess , that says princess even. But it reminds me of my old roommates 4 year old daughter who gave me the nickname. Or the little bio mech pieces people get , depending of course on alot, I don't think there's much meaning behind those works. But there's always going to be a lot of memories you can pull up just by looking at the image. And I think it's a bold statement by someone getting a tattoo just cause they like the art. There was an interview with the lead from Social D I read awhile back about how he got shitty tattoos before it was cool to be tattooed and have them. And yeah tattoos have made kind of a trendy shift in alot of ways. But it's the modern tattoo artist and the collector who are willing to push for difference. And the custom artists who seperate the trend followers from the trend setters.

ohgod...now y'all make me dig deep.. while what i have has no deep symbol for me...they still mark a time/place/history/story/memory for me, ok .. i'm sure my going ink-big at this time in my life has something to do with my self-confidence, self-esteem, self-worth, self-image...something along those lines. i hope its not just a mid-life crisis.. my *slight* OCD always involves collections...hmmmmm how much do you charge for cyber-therapy?????

not too much for the therapy would you like a quote? psycho broads rock lol , sorry

Yeah, I got a coupla pretty shitty tattoos back when I was young too... Getting them all lasered now...

who you calling psycho?!?!?? princess .....oops, hang on a sec...... sshhh, not right now.... no, no, NO! i will NOT get a battleship on my chest! now get the hell outta my head!! i'm not listening! btw, how'd you stop yourself from typing *bitch* instead of *broad* lol ahhhhh, you must have a little voice too

i got some pretty bad tattoos too. nothing big or bad enough that they cant be coverd though, just some stars on the back of my arms. we call them shooting stars cause they are barly there. my friend did them after ordering a kit off the internet years ago. not alot of my tattoos have meaning. although i dont exactly have alot yet. but the only ones that do have meanings behind them and a story are about 5 out of my 20ish tattoos. befoire i would just get whatever. i woke up and went to a tattoo studio before with an idea. i dont regret it though. just kinda wish i woulda got them somewhere else. but the tattoos on the post. i think are pretty cool. people are into a lot of differant kinds of art.

I started to reply to this a couple times, but words failed me. Maybe they still do. I think the "naif" suff works when there's some crafstmanship shown: if the lines are ragged, they should be purposefully ragged, the lines and composition should follow the usual rules. To wit: i think the elbow piece is a huge waste of money/skin/ink. And of somebody's talent. Of course, if the person wearing it likes it, i have no argument. It's just that i'm sure i've seen similar scars on some of my biking friends! Interesting discussion.

thanks ras, I was waiting to hear from you!

Hey wo, i'm always around somewhere! Been popping in, etc.

personally i am in love with Yann's work. it seems that tattoo artists and the people who have recieved the more 'traditional' tattoos have an obsession with perfection. they try to be so perfect that the work inevitably comes out flawed in one way or another. the only possible way to avoid this is to create a piece that imitates life through imperfection. his work is inspirational and even though it challenges traditional tattooing, what it creates is something worth the risk of being different. you can see more of his work at www.yourmeatismine.com -- even though the website is in french, the tattoos speak for themselves