No minors? Kids in shops?

Maybe tattoo by laws vary state to state, but are children allowed to come into a tattoo shop with a parent? NOTE, I say not to get work or wait for parent to get work, but I had a sleeping toddler in my kid backpack and wanted to take a look at an artist's book, but hesitated walking into shop? In fact, I didn't, but was curious had I if I would have been lame in doing so.

Let's say YOU are in the chair, getting work done. Now, do you want the artist distracted by someone's screaming retard, throwing a temper tantrum, ricocheting off the walls and busting shit up, while the oblivious parents look around at the walls? No? Good! Nor does anyone else. And while YOUR little darlin's might be the most well behaved kids in the world...a shining example to us all...MOST PEOPLE'S KIDS ARE ASSHOLES. So, if we allow one person to bring their brat, we have to allow EVERYONE to bring their brat. Then we become a fucking babysitting service, instead of a tattoo studio...and I am not interested in that. Get a babysitter, and come in. This is no place for kids to play. There are too many things to get into. We do not cater to anyone under 16 (and then they have to have a parent's concent, and the parent must be present) so i cannot think of any reason to have anyone under 16 in the studio at all.

i work about 60 hours a week in a shop, and if my girlfriend didn't bring my 4yr old in to see me i'd never see her. so yes you can bring your kid into a shop, but you have to have someone there to watch the kid wile you get work done. we even buy those temp. tattoos for the kids. i'll have kids get in the chair and i put those things on them. but not all shops allow kids. and you do have to have someone with you to watch them. i have bitch slapped a guy i was tattooing over his son, i was tattooing him and his son about 7 was sitting in the corner of my station being good, and just said daddy, so this asshole kicked his son in the head. i put my machine down and bitch slapped the f@ck out of this dude. only problem i've ever had with kids in the shop, besides the normal heatens

Uh...gee thanks for the feedback. Not quite as harsh as I expected, but your point is clear. (note I said my "darling" was sleeping on my back and I wanted to look at an artists book, not get a tat or let her "run" wild in a shop).

The problem is, the average idiot will see your sleeping baby and feel that is an invitation for him to bring his 3 screaming monsters to go on a destruction binge. If I allow you to have kids, I have to allow everyone. And since I KNOW that isn't gonna work, i can't allow yours.

I get it Keepingitreel. That's why i asked here. Like the woman who changed her kids diaper ON the table at a very busy resturant I was in. Some people have to sense. INK! What a horrible story. Kicked his kid in the head? Sweet Jesus. there isn't a hole deep enough to me for people who hurt kids. Argggg

That's different from my experience with it, InkJunkie...Until I made a rule agaist it, I actually WANTED the parents to kick the little bastards in the head. In fact, I was gonna start doing it for them. Then a couple of scruffs brought their two delinquents in and they flipped over a table, drop kicked a wall and put a hole in it....and the parents PRETENDED THEY DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE, and just kept looking around. I got my gloves off and made it across the studio in record time, grabbed mom and dad by the arms and tossed them out...then looked at the kids and pointed at the door. They were horrified and ran out. The crowd in the waiting room gave me a VERY hearty round of applause. The next day we had signs outside the door. Never again!

At my shop we have a room set up for kids to play in ....a "safe room" with toys and coloring books and such ....kids are not allowed in the private tattoo rooms. They are welcome in the shop, as long as the spouse or aunty or whatever is there to watch them while the mom/dad is getting work done.

KEEPIN i see your point fully. we do get some down right terrible kids in the shop. if thier parents don't do anything with them we ask them to leave. but all 3 of us at the shop have kids and our kids visit us at the shop. so we can't just make the rule no kids. the dude i had to bitch slap his kid was very well behaved, he was just trying to get dads attention. i can see both point of views fully.

Wow! Like McDonal's Playland....but in a tattoo studio! Maybe a ferris wheel and a few people dressed up as cartoon characters will attract a bigger crowd. I'm mostly being tongue in cheek, here...but I like a tattoo studio to be just that...a tattoo studio. There are plenty of playgrounds in the area for auntie or the spouse to take them to. But to each their own torment.

keepinitreel, Le it be known that you don't like kids!! Dude, I can see your point about kids in the studio, but remember most clients do have children and IF they are allowed in an artists studio then there should be rules of behavior posted for both the parents and children. I don't think refering to rugrats as "retards" or any other derogatory comment is really called for. I know you are voicing your concerns for your own studio and have had bad experiences but I would like to think that if that was your attitude and it was known to the community you are in that you will probably lose a few potential clients. If you make plenty of money and don't need them, fine but I for one would like a studio where I could go see the artist and his/her work so I feel confident on dropping a few thousand for major work. If the only time I could go is with my daughter (2 years old and VERY well behaved! as I would be holding her the whole time I was there.) I would like to think I would be welcome in their studio, unless of course there was a sign telling me otherwise AT THE DOOR! Rules are rules and EVER studio should have them and enforce them regardless. And concerning the guy kickin his kid in the head...well I wouldn't have just bitch slapped him, I would have knocked his fuckin teeth down his throat and then stomped on HIS fuckin head!! Later, M

I imagine I might lose a couple people because I will not allow kids in....but I probably get thousands of others because I do not allow kids in. Anyone serious about getting tattoos knows the artist doesn't need that distraction. It's pretty logical, really. I have kids, too. 4 of them. They know this isn't a playground or a hangout, so they have no interest in being here at this point...and neither do most kids...hence the reason they act the way they do.

Keepin it reel....The reason I like to see your posts on here is that You tell is like it is (wrong or not!LOL!) and fuck em if they don't like it! In this world of homogenized and socially correct "artistes" Its refreshing to hear from someone who displays TRUE old school attitudes. I ain't tryin to kiss yer ass dude but I do give ya props for"keepin it reel!!" THANKS!!..TAz

Kids who behave are welcome in our studio. Hell, we pick em up and tell them if they behave they can ask the tattoo artist if they mind being watched (the artists here dont mind). Kids love tattoos and watching real artists do the real thing is an amazing experience for them. I dont deny well behaved kids an experience as rewarding as watching real tattoos cause the bad parents cant control their kids. Bad parents with misbehaving kids are not allowed of course, so Im sure our official policy is no kids. I dont see this as being politically correct or sanitized. I dont believe you have to treat everyone equally, I believe you need to treat everyone the way they deserve. Some asshole comes in with kids that dont listen, fuck em, theres the door. To me its more "politically correct" to have to treat everyone equally without regard to the situation. To parents, be careful what studio you bring your kids too. Do your homework, find good artists, then email and talk to them to see what their thoughts are. Your not likely to be welcome in many shops, and as you have found out, you will be very unwelcome in many. Its never a good idea to stop at any random tattoo studio anyways really...

Hey Gabe ..I totally agree with you on this one..my 4 kids grew up in tattoo studios and knew how to comport themselves at a very early age...We welcome customers with children..IF THEY ARE WELL MANNERED AND THE PARENT IS RESPOSIBLE...of course kids are kids and I don't expect perfection which is why we keep lots of interesting toys books,,crayons,snacks and temp tattoos to keep em occupied...kids are our most valuable resource and we at Painted Angel treat em as such!!!!!!...............TAz

Gabe, that makes it sound as though I am not interested in doing business with ANYONE WHO IS A PARENT, which is not the case. There are places where kids should be, and places they shouldn't. Just as with half the population being morons, half are also bad at keeping their kids in line. THAT IS A FACT. There are dangerous things for a kid running wild to get into in a studio. I am not interested, nor do i have the time to distinguish who is a good or bad parent, seeing how the only way to find out is to have a bad situation, then have to have the drama of asking them to leave. The more logical step is to just avoid it altogether. There is absolutely no reason why someone has to bring a kid to the studio, so it isn't as though I am denying anyone anything. They can take them to a babysitter...or the park down the street. Then I don't have to find out that the parents are morons by having a kid end up in my bio room with his lollipop. I am here to tattoo...not watch to see how well you take care of your spawn, and intervien when you prove yourself unfit.

Im not trying to make you out like anything! Of course you run things your way, and it makes perfect sense in the context of your business. Im just saying its not out of politically correctness that we let kids in our studio, quite the opposite. And no artist will complain (for more than a minute) about unruly kids. We would never allow a child to be in the studio unsupervised. Ill say it again, for me watching the fascination of well behaved kids watching the tattooing process is an amazing experience. Im sure some of our parent friends will regret their young ones experiences here in the future as it seems the impression these kids are leaving with runs deep. If nothing else they wont think tattooed people are as odd. There's also no question that tattooing is NOT kid safe, and the rules need to be followed strictly. There are indeed lots of kids that can behave and follow the rules. We're lucky that we live in an area thats pretty progressive and the kids havn't been a problem yet. We certainly dont encourage kids in our studio... You dont see the value in it and dont want the hassle of bumping out asshole parents so you make a no kids rule thats great, no skin off my back! Theres absolutely nothing wrong with you doing your thing and us doing ours.

Now THATS a good answer!

It's all been pretty much said better by Taz & gabe, but here's two more cents: Not all kids run wild, Justifying a ban by saying how dangerous and distracting a wildchild is is just a weak argument. You don't have to treat everyone the same. Justifying a ban by saying if you do it for one you must do it for all is also an extremely weak argument. That being said, you have a perfect right to have whatever kid policy you like in your work /place of business. Just know that it is based more on your personality/beliefs and not on common sense. I echo Taz' statement I like your take it or leave it attitude too.

Gotta go with both sides on this one. If you're an artist who has children and your kids are in the shop then it would be a contradiction to not allow anyone else to bring their kids in the shop. But keep has a very valid point you let one kid in you gotta let em all in. And most shops are busy and th eartist doesnt have time to determine who's a good kid and who's a bad kid. I just think it's better safe than sorry.

NO!!...You CAN pick n choose who is allowed in yer shop!...THe only absolute is that there are no absolutes!!!...Personally our rules ( and prices ) are subject to the attitude and actions of each and every customer ...and even the people who are with them. For example a couple bring their 3 well behaved kids in with them...he wants a small tattoo she wants a navel piercing...All goes well they trade off watchin the kids...well ..I help with em too cause I love the little shits!...Another couple comes in with 1 screamin fucking brat from hell...THe first thing I do if I am not busy is to make friends with that brat and try to get em interested in drawing or watching kiddie movies hell I may take em next door for an ice cream IF I HAVE THE TIME...and this usually works...however if it does not work and the kid is a demon or if I do not have time...I ask the parent(s) to please get the fuck out and come back sans brat.....Pretty simple...yeah sometimes it involves me or one of my people putting in a little more effort but in the end I think its worth it!...TAz

Oh Taz, I wish I felt tattoo shops were cool like that out here, but i have no idea? It would make it so easy when I want to check out an artist's book or have a brief moment of thier time. My little kid is usually in a backpack on my back (she's 2) as we cruise around the city. Sure a babysitter is a must for me when getting work, but just to be able to walk into the shop and not feel like I crossed some sacred taboo would be nice when looking for a tattoo artist. It's just hard to know?

Got a sign in the window"KIDS ARE WELCOME>>WE COOK EM FOR FREE!!!" Just kiddin dangerkitten...OOOPS!...thats the other place!! Look do not expect every shop to be that way But we always will be kid friendly Brat killers!!! LOL!

As of a few weeks ago our shop stopped allowing kids inside. As was mentioned many of them were whiny noisy brats who had to touch everything and felt that they could waltz around the shop at leisure. But they're kids, thats what they do, we've all been there unless you were hatched a teenager... There were however a few that would come in and watch their parents being tattooed and were totally enthralled by the whole experience. They were quiet and polite and were just deep in taking it all in. We dont mind them at all, and like to talk to 'em and joke around. Point is, the majority of these little monsters have ruined it for the few that came and were on their best behavior. Thus leading us to post a sign that states "No children under 14, No exceptions" As was stated before, it only takes that one person with a quiet kid to invite some jerk and his 4 screaming hellions who only want to wreak havoc on our last nerves...

Grrrrrr . . . would ya please stop blaming the children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if kids come in screaming or act like brats thats NOT their fault ---> take a long look at the parent and lay the blame where it belongs! WHY do those kids think they can/should walk around and touch anything??? WHO lets them do that??? if you dont want kids at your shop fine i have no problem with shops making that choice . . . BUT . . . children if spoken to with respect and clear instruction will have no problem quickly understanding appropiate behavior and quickly catch on to the beauty and magic of the art form. I have been working with very young children (0-6) for the last 16 years and I have never met one yet who hasnt been captivated and transformed by the chance to learn and experience the languages of artistic expression (paint, clay, wire, etc) Why do we think its ok to talk shit about children who can't defend themselves as opposed to saying NO SHITY PARENTS ALLOWED!

Does it matter who's fault it is?? The result is the same, regardless...I have unhappy customers because I have a damn playground instead of a studio....what's the difference if it's the kid's fault or the parent's? It's irrelivant.

I don't really care how shitty of a parent you are. I am here to do tattoos...your parenting skills should never become part of that equasion....you give me money, I give you tattoos...and that's the proposition! Simple. You can be the worst parent in the universe, and if you don't bring your kid, it makes no difference in our transaction.

Your actions may be the same, but you are blaming the wrong people for the problems. Kids are parents responsibility so the blame for unruly kids lies squarely on the parents shoulders. Calling a kid a retard cause they have bad parents is a bit outta line... You should be calling the parents retards... I hope you could imagine how people who spend every day dealing with kids and parents would find you insulting the wrong party out of line...

As an advocate and educator of young children it is relevant IMO I'd bet that a good number of those customers y'all don't like are the same parents that i don't ;-) But more importantly you don't need to have "damn playground" instead of a studio if the child knows what a studio is and how to act in one! I dont believe that there are places that children should be relegated to instead they should be taught that climbing is for trees and jungle parks (as my daughter calls them)NOT furniture or that singing loudly should happen at rock shows, school, walking down the street but NOT a museum, grocery store, or restaurant. Your feelings are clear enough and cool man do your work make some cash go home and relax no problem. BUT my commitment to educating the public about the intelligence and abilities of our youngest citizens doesn't just apply to my work in the classroom. Just as the artists who post thoughtful and fiery about their love of tattooing and defense of it as their lifeblood I can't keep quiet as children get insulted repeatedly for something that is not their fault.

I agree, in theory...but I am not here to save the goddamn world from itself...I am just here to do tattoos. If I wanted to open a parenting clinic, I would'nt have wasted my life learning to tattoo. MY JOB IS QUITE SIMPLY TO DO TATTOOS. I am not a psychic, or a babysitter, or a rehab. I do not have enough hours in the day to worry about how you trained your kids....I have people waiting for TATTOOS. I don't have time to differentiate between good and bad parents. Nor do I want the liability when little suzie grabs a bottle of Madacide and takes a swig because mom and pop are busy looking at matching Nascar tattoos. Why is that difficult to understand? Is my job as a tattooist somehow now related to determining the quality of parenting of my customers and interviening and educating those who do not fit the status quo? Cuz if it is, that's too much work, what with all the slinging ink, cleaning, mixing ink, building machines, making needles, and paying bills....IN FACT, I would be willing to bet that if I had to take on all THAT responsibility on TOP OF what I already do, my own kids might accuse me of being a bad parent....cuz I'd be working 24/7 trying to raise everyone elses kids!

I agree, in theory...but I am not here to save the goddamn world from itself...I am just here to do tattoos. ***Yup I got that again thats totally ok with me BUT I am here to advocate and educate for children . . . . If I wanted to open a parenting clinic, I would'nt have wasted my life learning to tattoo. MY JOB IS QUITE SIMPLY TO DO TATTOOS. I am not a psychic, or a babysitter, or a rehab. I do not have enough hours in the day to worry about how you trained your kids....I have people waiting for TATTOOS. I don't have time to differentiate between good and bad parents. Nor do I want the liability when little suzie grabs a bottle of Madacide and takes a swig because mom and pop are busy looking at matching Nascar tattoos. Why is that difficult to understand? ***NOT difficult to understand at all but thats not MY job and when I read brat, hellions, whiners, spawn, retards, delinquents etc etc (and i'm home sick from school) then I will take the time to post about re-framing our societal views of children because I want something better (not pointing a finger at you its much bigger then that) for my child and the 500 or so that I have had the honor of spending my days with through these years. Is my job as a tattooist somehow now related to determining the quality of parenting of my customers and interviening and educating those who do not fit the status quo? ***Nope but I am an educator and i am not sure what you would call the status quo but if its the same thing that I would call the status quo that sure as hell isn't what i am working towards. Cuz if it is, that's too much work, what with all the slinging ink, cleaning, mixing ink, building machines, making needles, and paying bills....IN FACT, I would be willing to bet that if I had to take on all THAT responsibility on TOP OF what I already do, my own kids might accuse me of being a bad parent....cuz I'd be working 24/7 trying to raise everyone elses kids! ***please do your job and raise your children be a great parent all I'm doing is my job speaking up for those whose voices are not heard and saying kids don't like or need to be called derogatory names

In Keeps defense (not that a man of his stature needs little ol me defending him) I don't think he was calling all kids retards, bastards, etc. Just the little brats. Are we forgetting they kicked a dam hole in his wall? Ok fine it's not nice to talk like that about children but damn, there comes a point where enough is enough. when things get damaged you must come up with a solution that will allow you to still operate a good business and thats exactly what he did. There is nothing wrong with you doing things your way and him doing things his way. I really don't think a man of his intelligence would really dropkick a kid in the head he was just implying that that is how angry he became with kids terrorizing his shop. I am a parent and take absolutely no offense to him feeling the way he does cause as we all know some kids are just uncontrolable no matter how good of a parent you think you are. RULES are RULES.

Thank you...on many levels.

I myself have been working in a daycare for the past 2 years and am working towards teaching...and this whole thing is really pissing me off. You guys are making complete fools of yourselves. I find it absolutely disgusting that when i replied to the post about the guy getting head while getting a tattoo and called the girl a ho everyone was gettin their balls in a bunch defending her, yet those same people are calling children, who have no means of defending themselves and have simply been taught wrong, things like retard, demon, etc. So, the girl who was protrayed as someone willing to give head in a tattoo shop is protected, but not kids who just weren't taught right. Furthermore, it has EVERYTHING to do with the parent. We have kids in the daycare that don't listen simply because there are no conciquences. I have had a child come up to me and tell me their parents would sue me because i wouldn't let them climb a tree! that's the kid's fault? No, that's the parents' fault for teaching their kid that they can do anything they want. So, if you don't want kids in your shop, fine, but don't start attacking them just because they have been shown no conciquences for their actions. Any kid will sit quietly, IF you show them that you are not a bossy adult, but someone who wants to help them learn new and interesting things.

I myself have been working in a daycare for the past 2 years and am working towards teaching...and this whole thing is really pissing me off. You guys are making complete fools of yourselves. I find it absolutely disgusting that when i replied to the post about the guy getting head while getting a tattoo and called the girl a ho everyone was gettin their balls in a bunch defending her, yet those same people are calling children, who have no means of defending themselves and have simply been taught wrong, things like retard, demon, etc. So, the girl who was protrayed as someone willing to give head in a tattoo shop is protected, but not kids who just weren't taught right. Furthermore, it has EVERYTHING to do with the parent. We have kids in the daycare that don't listen simply because there are no conciquences. I have had a child come up to me and tell me their parents would sue me because i wouldn't let them climb a tree! that's the kid's fault? No, that's the parents' fault for teaching their kid that they can do anything they want. So, if you don't want kids in your shop, fine, but don't start attacking them just because they have been shown no conciquences for their actions. Any kid will sit quietly, IF you show them that you are not a bossy adult, but someone who wants to help them learn new and interesting things.

Again we are not calling ALL kids retards just the retarted ones. No in all seriousness you have a point but like you said you work at a day care not a tattoo shop two completely different places. All the man meant was that he has NO time being busy with all the responsibilities he has to weed out the bad parents from the good parents. And i disagree with the last thing you said regarding bossy adults. children listen a lot more to a strict firm parent as opposed to one that acts like their buddy all the dam time. As much as I agree with the fact that children will behave if you show them something they are interested in not every tattoo shop has the time tofigure out which ones are those types of children . you know with all the tattoo related stuff going on..................But bottom line it wont hurt the business either way but if things like this bother the artist then health wise its not good for the artist it will only stress him/her out in a time when they need to give their all to a client....

I wasn't involved in that other discussion. Any girl who likes to suck cock is alright in my book. Maybe not while I am tattooing, but I have no personal issues with her, I assure you. In fact, the more she likes it, the more I'd probably like her. On the other hand, when a kid kicks a hole in my wall or flips over my table, it gives me the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to address them with whatever slur I find appealing at the time. THAT IS A CONSEQUENCE. (that you spoke of) If you behave in a certain manner, THE CONSEQUENCE IS: people will think lowly of you and say nasty things about you, regardless of what excuses you have. It is personal responsibility, and I suppose I have taken the time to teach it to a few kids in my day. I should recieve some liberal award for excellence in teaching, I guess.

but they are kids! they don't understand that! yes, yelling at them makes them do something, but not because you asked, but because they are afraid! and it does NOT give you the right to call them a "retard", as it has nothign to do with retardation. People think children are something you own, and they aren't. You have to make sure they stay safe and teach them what's right. By flipping out when they upset you, all you teach them is that, if something upsets them, then THEY should flip out...creating the problem all over again! Kids pay attention to EVERYTHING, and i mean EVERYTHING...so like i said, if you don't want them there i don't care, it's a personal choice, just don't disrespect them if you want them to respect you.

Keeps...didn't you know?...maybe ya didn't get the memo...ya just can't call anybody ANYTHING...there are too many SENSITIVE PEOPLE HERE!!! You will hurt their feelings!!!! Now ya know I am just speaking tongue in cheek here so don't get all pissy everybody including you Dan...uh I mean Keeps!!! Just SMILE DAMMITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAz

Taz, it's not that there are sensative people...it's ignorance. Honestly, i wouldn't go to someone who acts foolish like that for anything...if they are gonna act that way about kids, how will they react to anything else?

So what are these "consequences" you speak of?? You say they should be aware of them, and have them...but now you think they shouldn't? This is confusing.

their consequence should not be "YOU FUCKIN RETARD WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DO THAT! I CAN"T BELIEVE YOU WOULD DO THAT!" You gotta talk to them, treat them like a person, treat them like you want to be treated cuz what they learn as a child is how you act later on in life. If a kid throws a lego at my head, i don't freak out on them. I grit my teath, have them sit down, ask them why they did it, do they know it's wrong, have THEM come to the conclution that what THEY CHOSE to do what wrong, and then they have a consequence...5 minutes in time out, no treat at the end of the day, no outside time, something on THEIR level that will make them understand that if they do it again, they will have a negative consequence.

You said: "We have kids in the daycare that don't listen simply because there are no conciquences. I have had a child come up to me and tell me their parents would sue me because i wouldn't let them climb a tree! that's the kid's fault? No, that's the parents' fault for teaching their kid that they can do anything they want. So, if you don't want kids in your shop, fine, but don't start attacking them just because they have been shown no conciquences for their actions." So, when I teach them that the consequences of acting like a retard is BEING TREATED LIKE ONE, and being addressed as one, why am i a bad person? Isn't that mild compared to the broken jaws and black eyes they'll get later in life from people who aren't as kind as yours truly?

OK...so the consequence is, being talked to? Hmmmm. I think you have "consequence" confused with "attention". But that's just my take on the matter.

Retarded people are treated very gently because they don't understand...not yelled at

Maybe you need to use your eyes and READ the part about 5 minutes in a time -out, not going outside, losing a special treat, etc

I'll give you THAT one...but demons, derilicts, delinquents, and cretans are not.

And those are spiritual beings that do much more than any child could.

I have to say, Kmama and ducky...lot's of love for your commitment working with children. I agree with all your views on [arenting. Reading all the replys makes me think of something that happened here at my house last summer. Our neighbor's young son (age 11?) kept riding his dirtbike through our backyard. my man told him to knock it off becuase we got a two year old and a blind little schnauzer dog. Well, the kid kept doing it. Finally, dh grabbed him and the bike and said, "If you come blasting through here again, don;t worry, I'm not going to kick your ass, I'm going to kick your dad's ass.." Needless to say he stopped. I could not agree more that in most cases of unruly kids the parents are the prime culprits. However, I guess in many cases you can't expect a two year old to behave really well for too long either. Like people who insist on taking thier tiny kids to expensive resturants. I say get a babysitter. I'm sure I could walk in any shop with a napping toddler or a quiet well behaved child and it would be ok to browse the portfolio's, but all it takes is one clueless parent to wreck it for all! maybe a sign that say's... ONLY well behaved kids may enter? I guess there is no easy answer? Everyone has a valid point.

doesn't anyone realize that the only thing that makes a child listen IS FEAR. The minute a child sees that he/she could do whatever the hell they want and the only consequence is"time out"they see that as an opportunity to do whatever the hell else they want. the only thing that makes us respect authority is the fact that we fear the consequences. Sorry but that sitting your child down and speaking in a calm voice is what has children all over the world running all over their parents. I wish when I was 6 and i did something bad that i just got put in a corner for 5-10-20 minutes. They are children they can entertain themselves in a corner for 3 hours if you put them there for that long. Now dont get me wrong I am not advocating violence towards children but that buddy buddy crap dont fly with me. But this is entirely off topic. The fact remains that you need to be over 18 to get tattooed legally so essentially there is no reason for a child to be in a tattoo shop in the first place. Don't give me that excuse Oh well what if I want to look around...Bullshit....find a sitter or come back when your babies daddy has the cub for the weekend. And retard, demon, and all those names where used metaphorically not literally. I dont thing that Keep actually called these kids that to their face. Think about if you just commited a crime and a police officer came up to you and said okay sit down lets have a little chat, what you just did was wrong and i want you to sit here in this corner and think about what you did and i'll be back in 5 minutes to hear your answer. Are you serious... now ya might be thinkin well they do that and its called jail..NO 5 minutes in a corner in a childs eyes is not equivalent to a weekend in the slammer...Oh did i mention THEY KICKED A HOLE IN HIS WALL FOR CHRIST SAKES!!!!!!!!

the only thing I will disagree with here is the line "doesn't anyone realize that the only thing that makes a child listen IS FEAR." We already went over that every studio has every right to run the studio the way they wish, and the responsibility for kids bad behavior rests squarely with the parents. Kids will live life the way they learn it. I dont want my kids living in fear, I wont teach em with it. I want em to live responsibly, and will teach em responsibility.

it's BS that kids only listen with fear. It's all how you teach them...if you teach them that they decide what they do, and if they do something that they shouldn't there is something bad that happens because of it, fear has nothing to do with it. We don't use the whole LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I"M BOSS approach at the daycare and it seems to be workin better than the other daycares i've worked at...ya know, the ones where you yell and the kids don't listen...

Ok I am gonna have my say then you are all gonna shut up and end this post! YEAH RIGHT and the Moon is made. of green cheee! LOL!! I have 4 kids...they are grown now but I think I was a good father while they were growin up...We were constantly being praised for the well mannered kids we had...I never and I mean NEVER laid a hand on them....I grew up in a loving wonderful home and my mom whacked the CRAP out of me... I was one of those "DEMONS" being referred to in this thread..Being hit taught me only one thing...To get real good at avoiding apprehension!! Well that and runnin REAL fuggin fast!! While I do not subscribe to the point of view that children need to be struck to discipline them, I think that sometimes a little more than a "time out" is called for.Each kid is different...now my pride and joy..Virgil my 2 year old grandson is a brat and is nearly ready to be promoted to Demon status....don't mean that I love him any less or that I am gonna pound his chubby little butt...it just means that when we go out in public I am responsible for his actions therefore we don't take him places where he would obviously be either a nuisance or where he could, simply because he is a 2 year old ,cause a dangerous problem. WE have a major problem in this world today...a problem reflected in the actions of young adults especially in this country...there is little if any DISCIPLINE....I see so many kids who have never been made accountable for their actions that it truly concerns me..By discipline I DO NOT mean HITTING your child....There are other ways..I think spending as much time as possible with them and SETTING AN EXAMPLE reigns supreme in seeing our kids grow into responsible adults.Too little discipline is dangerous Love your kids, try to set a good example and smooch the little shits a LOT!!!!... DAMMITTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....TAz

Cool. I retract my previous statement, the dopey parents have made it hard for the good ones to bring their kids into the shop. Some parents with babies too. Unfortunately the shrill scream of a baby upset can really mess with your concentration...

Taz, the more you post the more I'm looking forward to that TAZ Possee T-shirt!

When a baby cries, it because the parents are bad and haven't taught the baby about the consequences yet.

Ditto what Taz said! My mom would swat us until we got to fast for her to catch us. Never made a difference . We were still little pain in the as delinquents well into our twenties! I'm a kindler, gentler, Ommmmmmm..yoga mama now. No hitting/yelling, but I do think Taz hits on a very important point. Don't take very small children in places if you know they are a time bomb ready to go off. If they can hang, cool, but as there parent know the difference and be ready to pack it up. Not fair to torture innocent bystanders and not fair to tirture a small child to sit still for hours either. Hell, that ain't no fun. I started this thread with the basic question, "Can I bring my lil Cat into tattoo shops to look at an artist's portfolio/work and what I've come away with is....maybe, but don't let her run wild or be a pain in the ass.

Thanks Caribou...I just try to use common sense...well that and the rule my beloved grandfather preached and lived by.... "Be nice to everybody ......until its time to NOT be nice" Worked for him pretty well and so far works for me!!! See ya on my space!!..TAz

I'm the only one in my shop with kids-they come and visit when I have time during the day.Its my show-I'm the boss-But for people bringing kids while they get tattooed is not allowd.If they bring their kids in just to talk to one of us in our WAITING AREA about a design,picture-tat they want and arrange a day to do this with no children.Thats no problem-Talk to them like their human-then everybody is happy.

I dont understand WHY any parent would want to take their kid into a tattoo shop!!! Its a place of buisness and its all about respect!!! I wouldnt have my kid run around an office or a operating theartre!!! Its a lot easier to pik out a design you are happy with when u havent got ur kid distracting u anyway! MAMA should get a babysitter and spend all day fannying about the shops and studios, bet u could do with the break anyway!!! But at the same point i dont appreciate people putting my little angel(?), okay individual(!) in the same category as sum little thugs, kids like that shouldnt even be let into mcdonalds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TaZette num 5 xxxxxxx

I dunno, I kinda like teaching kids about how to behave in a place of business and respect. We also dont have kids running around, and while they require attention arent really distractions. There are plenty of reasons not to bring your kids, but again, well behaved kids have very positive impressions of tattoos if you let em (and get tattooed at a family friendly studio....).

Well behaved kids aren't distractions at all, it's the not so well behaved kids, and as far as picking a design out without your kid distracting you, thats bad judgement on a tattoo all together, you really should have an idea on what you want before walking into a tattoo studio. Impulse shopping may be ok at the mall, but tattoos require more thought and research, which can be done when your kids are in bed or school. When kids watch me tattoo, for all I know, this could be the next amazing tattoo artist like a future Guy Aitchinson or Joe Capobianco that would have otherwise never known they had an interest in it if it wasnt' for the experience of watching their dad get his when they were alot younger. I would feel eccstatic if 25 years from now a very talented person in the upper eschelon (sp?) of tattoo artists recalled watching me tattoo their dad and that's what kicked it off for them. Kids are very impressionable and you'd be suprised how good they behave when they see something that they like for the first time.

and too keepingitreal these little "thug like" creatures mite grow up 2 be ur customers one day!!!

I was doing a portrait today as a 4 year old girl basically stood there and screamed comments at me and the father.The man did nothing but sit there.So i can see some of what you guys are saying.I have had peoples kids kick my computer tower in and distroy my cd burner.But sometimes you get some kids that just sit there and are great.The problem is it is hard to throw someone out when there is another child in the shop.In theiry is sounds good but when it happens sometimes it is hard.People get really upset about this kind off thing.There is no easy answer i try to treat every person with respect and hope they have common sense.They dont usually but is guess thats life.(TRY TELLING TYRON HIS DAUGHTER IS NOT WELCOME WHEN THERE IS A LITTLE WHITE GIRL SITTING IN THE SHOP AND YOU WILL HAVE A MAJOR LEAGUE PROBLEM).

**TRY TELLING TYRON HIS DAUGHTER IS NOT WELCOME WHEN THERE IS A LITTLE WHITE GIRL SITTING IN THE SHOP AND YOU WILL HAVE A MAJOR LEAGUE PROBLEM). ** BINGO!

That's just weak. Again, a shop owner can have any rules he/she likes in their own shop and they don't have to justify a total ban of kids with a logical reason. Just like one doesn't need a logical reason for allowing a certain adult or kid or pet in a shop and not allowing another. It's their shop, their rules. One would be better off just saying "no kids" and leaving it at that. When one starts trying to justify it with "reasons" one just end up sounding like a fool....There is no reason for a blanket ban except the laziness of not wanting to have to decide on a case by case basis.

About the "tyrone "thing...I for one refuse to be intimidated by someone just because their skin is a different color and that is what I believe you were trying to say in a discrete way ...if I am wrong please correct me ( or whack me with a clipchord...your choice) I know what you mean some people DO try to play the fake race card.."oh you just don't want me here cause I'm _______________ (black,chinese, polish or related to Krystof!)"....well that crap just does not fly with me...its"no I don't want you here because you are an asshole and you are allowing your little darling to direspect my studio"....HOWEVER it is quite rare that I find a child so problematic that I can't get them so interested in my world that they calm down. I WILL take a few minutes out of a very busy day and invest it in a child. Kids are about the only true resource we have left on this planet....They are worth a few minutes of our time.

To the people who seem to have a problem with treating children like children instead of little adults. Why is it that in the last couple of decades we decided that whooping a little rump is bad parenting. Why do people think a kid with no manners is going to listen when you have that nice sit down conversation with them. The fact is that every child is different. Some kids need a good "clip cord lesson" on occasion, some need a simple low angry voice, others need the time out solution. There is a time and a place for everything, kids, tattoos, blo jobs, ect... A couple I knew was staying with me for about 6 months. The mother was one of those sit em down and give em time out parents and both of her hell spawn needed a good asp whooping, but never got one until her boyfriend (my original roomate) gave em thier first one. With this situation it didn't work and niether did the calm sitdown this is what you did wrong shit. So one day I came home to find my lil dogs ribs broke, spagetti in my VCR, and holes in fresh drywall I had just put up. I proceeded not to hit the little sh@t. Rather I grabbedc him by the shoulders and gave him the asp chewing he had coming. I don't remember what exactly I said but it was along the lines of if he thought the spanking he got earlier that week was bad he should just wait for the horrible things I had in store for him. Later that night I kicked the parents out for not being able to control him. 2 Years later that same little angel walked through my door sat down very quietly and entertained himself for 3-4 hours without having a word said to him simply because I had left such an impression on him. I have another friend whos little sh@t doesn't listen to eylling calm disipline or anything to that sort. His mother and grandmother refused to spank him for about his first 3 years and she would cry to my wife that he was simply uncontrolable and she didn't know what to do. After about 6 months of convincing she let me try to discipline him the ole fashioned way. So while I was waiting in a hotel room for my 3 month premie to get out of the hospital he was up visiting and started getting into the little tissue despenser after he was told no many times by the mother I decided it was time to intervien. He would reach, I would slap. HE would reach, I would slap. After doing this for about 10 mintues his little had was red as fire and he got the point his liitle fingers slowly went for the tissues and fearing the lap he pulled his hand back. Now everytime he starts to do something after being told no he looks up, ptus his hands in from of him and calmly occupies himself otherwise. Maybe not all kids need rudementary education but in my experience a traditional look at parenting works best. But what do I know?

Well put Taz! most kids are facinated with tattoo artists, maybe its all the pretty colors and pictures in the shop, maybe its our shining personalities, one thing for certain though, most people are breeders, and alot have kids, in my opinion, it would be harsh judgement to ban someone from the shop because they have a kid with them. it would do most of us alot of good to spend a couple of minutes with a kid before starting work on thier parent. who knows, you might learn something. who ever said they had a play room set up for customers with kids is a fucking genius, untill now I havent thought of that. and maybe I will install a play room soon. I have allowed children to watch thier parent get tattooed (through glass, never in the work area) and while there have been a couple of brats, most of them were good kids, it also helps that I have kids that are willing to take the other kids out to play if they become too problematic. my 11 year old daughter is my apprentice, she handles alot for me through-out the summer months, one of her "jobs" is to help out with the kids that wont sit still. this is her big year, this year I will be working with her on creating flash(shes a good artist for her age), and needle making, I am hoping that she will be the "next big thing in tattooing" she can already name all the parts of a machine, and she is a real asset to have. she started helping last year, when she learned how to greet potential customers, after doing this for a year I believe she could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in a white dress. I know that my kid apprenticing doesnt apply to most of this topic, but I wanted to throw a little credit her way, as she has been a blessing for business

TAz, you are the most diplomatic person I think I've ever run across. You should have been president since 2001, you obviously have a sense of the word 'Diplomacy'. I don't, however, and this kid thing extends into many other arenas, whether it be in restaurants, the fucking DMV, or a long airflight. While well behaved children are fine in small doses, I have chosen to never have kids, yet every day I run across someone who thinks their choice (and it most certainly was a choice) and responsibility of being parent should be shared with everyone. Not all shops are set up like a doctors office, with a private room for each client. And when the waiting area is two feet from the first station, the last thing I as a client would like for someones bored child to start looking for new and unusual ways to entertain themselves while I'm paying someone to permanently mark my body. Where does liability fall when mistakes are made in such an instance? Respectfully TCE

I'm a parent of a couple of little 6 year old girls. They are great kids, and I love them more than my own life. And frankly, they are really well behaved. I'm just lucky I guess. In fact, I don't think they've ever caused anyone a lick of trouble as near as I can tell. However, I've spent over 7 hours in the chair so far and got about 3 more to go in one of the most open minded shops I can think of, and I still can't think of any reason why I would want my kids in there. It's hard enough for the artists to concentrate... I mean, if you fuck up, there's no eraser. So why would a person do anything that would make their job more difficult for them? I'd say, if you are gonna be in the chair, chances are you made an appointment in advance. There's no reason out of common courtesy why you can't get a sitter or whatever as well. That way your artist can just concentrate on you. Even if your kids are the best in the world (Like mine, He He.. Wanna see a picture?)

Fuck! I think I just agreed with Keepinitreel! Quick, What do I do now?

Ruh Roh Shaggy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ruh Roh Shaggy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Parenting by dispensing 'fear' may get results, but no thank you.

Just to clarify from my original post, I WAS ONLY bringing my duaghter (SLEEPING) in a backpack in to SCHEDULE an apointment. Not get work or let her run around. Geez...

And how is my little darlin neice miacatt anyway?Uncle TAz

Awwwww......she is awesome! Did you see my tatto'd bag on MYSpace?

Yes I did and it is way cool...ya need to get mia catt one...she would look sooo cute!!..T

In retrospect, I probably over-reacted in my original post. Truth be told, there were two well behaved adorable little darlings watching in amazement during some outlining I had done about a month ago. They belonged to another client who was getting a touch up, but they were busy watching the application of the stencil to my foot and ankle, and as the work began. They were probably 3 or 4, both with cute little pink stick on tattoos. It is true that ideally each situation should be handled on a case by case basis. For shop owners, I don't know how feasible this is when things may appear calm at first, only to start getting out of hand a little while later. Then the discrimination problems arise as was mentioned. There are certainly things other than unruly children that can cause distractions, like blaring cellphone ringtones, or the dove that flew into the parlor during my most recent session. Several waving brooms couldn't convince her to go back out the way she came in, and I was sure she was going to get minced in the ceiling fan rapidly spinning directly above my raw legs. Fortunately, she finally found her way back outside, only to sit under the overhang just on the other side of the front window and glare at us. Personally, living in the S.F. Bay Area, I'm still waiting for the big one to hit while I just happen to be in the chair. I'm sure bringing a child in during scheduling probably never causes a problem, and I was reacting to the question in general out of my own frustration over incidents from the past. Not all parents are oblivious to what their kids are doing. Of course, then this raises a whole new issue.................Does exposing a child to the tattooing process pre-dispose them to wanting tattoos as well? Does it educate them to go through the proper channels; qualified, licensed artists working in a professional, sanitary enviroment? Or does it fuel their resolve to obtain the work by any means and at any risk when they are not of legal age? I only ask because I've noticed a ton of discussion on this topic, by folks who are for the most part in support of the artform. I can't imagine a 14 year being envious of some piece of shit tattoo one of their home boys got from some scratcher after they see what can be done professionally. How could they possibly think that the shit is cool? Best Regards TCE

"""""""Personally, living in the S.F. Bay Area, I'm still waiting for the big one to hit while I just happen to be in the chair."""""""" yeah, I'm a California girl and WHY IS IT everytime I get in an elevator or underround parking lot I'm SUPER concious of "The big one" hitting? Too many earthquake movies I suppose!

Yeah, and while everyone living in Tornado Alley says "But you get them earthquakes"....................What's it been, like 17 years?

Ok about my kids the "TAzlings"... My kids grew up in tattoo shops and tattoo conventions...My oldest daughter Natassja was selling tattoos at 12!..At first people were hesitant to talk to a "kid" about their tattoos but with her obvious knowledge of tattoos and her way of making people feel at home she brought then around in short order...My youngest son Tristan was the youngest person in missouri to ever be licensed as a tattoo artist...he was 16!...That was before mo passed the state laws...this kid basically apprenticed since he was born!...My oldest Nathan had never shown any interest in tattooing, oh he'd do his chores around the shop but just was not into the art itself ,that is until he reached the age of 19 and then he came to me with a stack of artwork that blew me away and said" ok Dad heres the deal...I am gonna be a tattoo artist and you are gonna hire me" And I did ...the rest is history...Nathan is now my first line artist at Painted Angel and is crankin out some pretty decent stuff...My youngest daughter Annalise was piercing at the shop and selling tattoos at a very early age...she has since moved on to other interests ( having my 2nd grandchild in september!)but when she worked at the shop she did a wonderful job! Ok I'll quit braggin now...of course all my kids were angels and never screwed up ( YEAH RIGHT!!! they were demons!) I just wanted you all to know how proud I am of all my brats and that my grandson and best friend Virgil is also growin up in the shop and he draws flash every day...at 2 years old!...Had a guy in the other day who wanted an eagle of some sort...well Virgil made him sit down with him at the art table while he drew him what he thought he should get...it was kind of a biomechanical eagle vampire werewolf...the guy got a big kick out of it and Virgil earned his first commission...a bottle of bug juice and a candy bar...the guy didn't go for his design but he took the drawing and said he'd put it on his fridge!... Ok OK I know I can't help it!...I'll quit now!...TAz

TAz, Great insight! I apologize for getting off the original topic here. I only raised the question of parental influence because of the discussion I've seen going on about 14 year olds getting tattooed, and kids periodically do learn by example. There has to be consistency in parenting if a child is going to respect the guidance of their elders. You obviously know a few things.............LOL! In all honesty, the older I get, the more I realize I really don't know shit about anything. I got my first tattoos at 22; three of them in the course of a month. Then it dawned on me that if I didn't get things under control, I would be covered with insignificant shit in no time. Fortunately, even at that age 20 years ago, I was drawn to the Japanese style dragons, which is a design I still love (which you can tell from the pics I sent) and has never gone out of style. I'm grateful that I've never marked myself with something I'd want covered or removed, and that I still have some fresh skin to work with. These old guys are about to get their first re-work in early June. Whereas with my first tattoos I simply selected the best of a very limited number of shops at that time and had the artist slightly modify some of the flash from the wall, my current work has been a lot more fun and exciting. Collaborating on a custom design with an artist for many months has allowed for changes and improvements to be made BEFORE actual work began. I suppose one could wait forever and eventually come up with a perfect design, but there is a time frame where you begin to see new ideas and improvements beginning to level off. Blah, blah, blah................. I wish you weren't 3000 miles to the right. I'd love to have you ink something on me, although with my current project I don't have time to think about what it would be. What's your specialty? Lastly, the work I sent the pics of actually does have strong significance and represents some very specific things. I was interested what your take on it would be given the exorbitant number of years you've been tattooing. Based on the the clients you've seen over the years who have revealed what their tattoos represent, I'm curious what you've found similar works to signify in your experience. Maybe we can get you your own reality show, "The Psychic TAz Network"! Yeah Buddy! Take care man TCE

Mamacat, Remember that Cypress stucture in Oakland that came down in the 1989 Loma Prieta quake, smashing the cars on the lower deck and their occupants down to about 6"? I swear to God I used to drive under that solid slab of concrete before that day and wonder WTF would happen if there was ever a big quake. It was plain creepy driving on that thing. TCE

Oh yeah THAT was freaky. Watching the news as cars were smashed flat like pancakes with people in them. Do you remeber for the LONGEST time after that now one (at a red light) would pull under the overpass? the Northridge Quake was 1994. I remeber jumping out of bed (ummmm nekid) and grabbing the closet thing, a red velvet formal bridesmaid dress (dh was just in Ugg boots and bath towel!). Taught us to sleep in PAJAMAS!

Taz......... you're such a good poppa! So Virgil getting a baby sibleing soon? So cool. I would love to have more myself. They are so cool (well, lol...most of the time) AND then they become teens who want SHITTY tats! Hopefully, with the awareness of theior mamas and pappas with tats they'll be particular! xo meow!

Yep...Annalise my youngest is due in september and is having us a a baby girl!! Gonna spoil the crap outta this one too! And virgil is sooo excited...he talks about it every day...he calls her "the nugget!" an apt and fitting title. Annie has been a puker on this one....she'll be sittin there havin a conversation and will reach for the trash can, puke and then carry on as if nothin happened! Poor kid...and her significant other Jerome ( a GREAT kid! by the way) has sympathy morning sickness and , just like I did with ALL mine,barfs every mornin like clockwork!!!...Gawd! Hows my mia catt?...You tell her ol uncle TAz says hello and smooch her for me and Virg....oh yeah when I show him mia catts pic he says thats his girlfriendcatt!!!...See YA!!!!...T

I think some are missing Keep's point... He's just trying to say its not his job to choose the appropriate punishment for misbehaving kids in the shop. His reaction is not the point. It is not his job to educate another's kid on how to behave in a store. The parents indeed should be the ones accountable. Who are we to judge Keep's reaction? We weren't there. He said clearly that he doesn't have time for "a time out" or "lengthy explanation" about behavior in the studio. Its hard enough doing that with some adults (including employees) that come in, much less the kids. The kids disrepected a stranger's space. Now they PERHAPS learned that someone could react harshly to such action, and to be cautious. Maybe they won't learn it until they're older and come home with a black eye? Kudos to those that were saying, (essentially) to let the punishment fit the 'crime'. Seriously, is it really preparing kids for life, in denying that it can be a (sometimes) violent, harsh world out there? I don't mean they should be taught to live in fear, but certainly prudent caution. Krystof... I too think its cool when kids watch in fascination. That is until they get bored the fourth hour or so. -Kandyman Joe www.pureimaginationtattoos.com www.kandymanjoe.com