reasonable apprenticeship cost??

what would be a reasonable price to pay for an apprenticeship at a reputable shop? and, would it be a good idea to get a signature on something to make sure you don't get ripped off... or would that be kind of an insult to the artist?

Just my opinion but I don't feel that a "reputable" shop would charge anything for an apprenticeship. Ideally, anyway. A mentor should be sharing his knowledge with someone he thinks has real potential, not someone who can help pay his bills. I feel it should be in exchange for routine shop practices because while it helps the shop, it also gives you experience that you need. I would also question the quality of a paid apprenticeship. Ok, you give the dude his money. Once you line his pockets, there's no incentive to take his time with you. He got what he wanted and now he'll want to get you the hell out of there so he can charge another dude to help keep his shop in order. Anyway, it is common practice a mentor to charge you, as well as make you sign a contract. My advice: You'd be foolish not to have a lawyer look at the contract and make sure that it also benefits YOU. No disrespect intended but you are working for the shop AND paying them. Yes, it's in exchange for valuable information but a mentor should have limited control over you. He teaches you and you work your ass off for it and that's that. And, personally, I wouldn't pay all of the money up front. You need to keep a dangling carrot over the dude or, like I said above, there's no incentive.

your soul your desires your life.your in it or your not. eat sleep and shit tattoo 3 to 5 year term in a very good shop i know.others 3 grand 3 weeks and your offical title is fucking scratcher and you are hated by most!!if you have kids look in there eyes and ask yourself can i commit to this.can i afford to give my life to get where i need to be.

you may be able to "learn" the "basics"- but you can't buy a rep- or experience Im not sure you can really "buy" anything worth having. Don't pay- even as an apprentice YOU should be of some value.

I know of reputable shops that will train you if you pay. Paying sometimes is a way to show your commitment and seriousness of your deal. The most important thing to get hired is to show your art and not money. If you art is great and your mentor feels that his time to train you has a price then it will be up to you. I am not trying to say that free apprenticeships aren't good. We have an apprentice at the shop, he didn't pay a dime and he is really reliable and easy to train. After a month of his apprenticeship he was able to do a tattoo by himself without fuckups.

dont pay? thats a pretty strong statment. since Ive been to just about every shop that I feel is worth walking into localy (except Dr. John's havent made it there yet).. and a bunch that arnt worth a shit.. and every shop has offered to apprentice me but they ALL want $ I've heard anywhere from 2K - 5K hell one place was charging 200 per week HAHAHA per week? wtf is that? and if it was a year (charging per week makes me think they want you in and out to make more money off the next dude) that would come out to like 10k for a 1 year apprenticeship.. YTKES I also hate when you walk into a shop and they say they'd apprentice you.. BUT it will cost X ammout of money for a 1 year apprenticeship? what the hell happend to the apprenticeship ending when the mentor feels the apprentice has learned the skills? can you really put a time period on that.. I understand that alot of others have fucked this up for others.. people going in asking for an apprenticeship.. taking up the mentors time and then bailing 1/2 through the process and leaving the mentor high a dry with nothing.. and hell some even bailing on the mentor half way through and opening their own shops THINKING they know it all. it just kills me cause there are people out there that want this BAD and are willing to put in the time and all the effort and it sometimes seems impossible to find that place that is willing to offer the guidance in return.. but I will continue to try and one day WILL succeed!

i had 2 apprenticeships, 1 i didn't have to pay for. i was only there for a few months. and ended up having to quit. which i wish i never did. and another one i paid 5000 for. in my opinion it was a waste of 5000. i didnt get taught a hole lot. they never have really apprenticed to many people. id say maybe 1 other then me in 8 years. and the other one was a piercer that worked there. but i know a shop by us was pumpin out apprentices, 6000, and they would sit with them for a bit show them stuff and there apprenticeship was done, no job guarented. quick 6000$. id say go for one that you dont have to pay for. unless its going to benefit you. with my experiance, i learnt more with the first one. and think its the better way.

insearch, personally, I think your post brings up some very valid points and shows part of why it's becoming more difficult to find a good apprenticeship (and not just locally, although I do know more about the local situation) I've had my own studio in the area for over 26 years, longer I believe than anyone else in the area so I know what you said is true. There are 'tattooers' who really don't know what their doing in the first place trying to train people and obviously are more concerned with taking peoples money and taking advantage of the fact that there are people who want to get into the profession than they are with bringing another talented/skilled Tattoo Artist into the profession. Then, as you pointed out, there are those who are not willing to put in the time/dedication that's required to really know how to do it properly, basically just want to learn enough to go to work on people and make money and be another pain in the ass to the profession as well as their mentor, which, in turn, makes at least some of us even more reluctant to give someone else a chance. BTW, I am not presently taking on any apprentice, I simply don't have the time and I'm not sure I have the patience anymore, sorry. I would like to mention that many of the people who call/come in asking about apprenticing are not even artist in the first place, few have portfolios and most that do are rather pathetic. How anyone could possibly think they could ever become a good Tattoo Artist if they aren't an artist first never ceases to amaze me. On the other hand, I do realize there are people out there that DO want to 'learn it right', ARE artist and would put the time/effort into it that it deserves and I think I can understand how frustrating it must be for them. I honestly don't know the 'answer' but I do agree with the concept that those who truly want/deserve it WILL get the opportunity. As to the paying-not paying, I'm inclined to agree with what FK said, it shows some committment and seriousness aside from the fact that there are few professions that it doesn't cost you to learn and even fewer that 'return' your investment so quickly once you do learn the right way, which is not going to happen with any two week course.

I know one artist that tried to train someone he opened a shop and wanted someone to train him. the artist thought he must have some artistic ability or he would not what to open a shop. Well come to find out the guy new nothing at all could not draw at all. so the artist that was apprenticing him got him some machine and tried to teach him. then a month later the owner starts tattooing his family a scratching them all up the artist said you have to learn how to draw before you can tattoo. so the the owner fires the artist and starts tattooing out of his shop lying to people saying he has been tattooing for years. and hes is still hacking and lying now. so i agree to charge people now. people do not care about what they are doing to others skin. And more and more there out to just make money and do not care about quality. If they really want to learn I think they should pay something. Times have change and we have to change with it if we don't there will be tons of scratches out there that think its OK to do this. I think they should have to have 2 three years apprenticeship before the can get a license to tattoo. the artist they apprentice under should have to vouch for them. you should see some of these new artist its sad.

I've tried it both ways... The ones who "get it free" tend to take it for granted and fizzle out. The ones who pay part then flake out, cry about how they were taken advantage of. The ones who stick it out learn that I try to be fair (by giving bonus money off the fees). Especially when I see motivation and talent beyond just coming to work and doing bare minimum of what's expected. Also, by letting them work off the fees. In exchange, I warranty any work the apprentice does that needs to be touched up or repaired later on. I've also learned that written apprenticeship contracts are essential, so both parties are on the same page.

you pissy little kids need to shut the hell up and give respect.. dont listen to any of them, grow up and have standards pay 5k for 3 years and compare what your learnin to others. find out whos who and why and where we came from .get a contract because an apprentice can get screwed just like an artist can by his ex apprentice that way every body is safe ..find out who zeke owen is and ask him if its an insult and as for the rest of you idioths grow up and get real or die because if I get my hands on any of you ...il remove your flesh from you ..you dont deserve it!!!I hope that helps?

I agree you need a contract these days. its not like before were your word meant something. they just had a special on TV on how lying/thieving/cheating/ladder-climbing is OK to get ahead. it was a poll they did on teens. I wish i remembered the hole story but they said more and more are thinking this way. everything is done bye contracts now so its nothing new these day no one should be offended like they said it protect you all. Like i have said before they should have to apprentice under you for at least 2 years or more depending on the person then have to get a diploma/ or some kind of document stating they have complied with all health and artistic, etc. and then and only then can they be licensed by there state. because now you do not have to know how to tattoo just as long as you do not break the sterile barrier they will give anyone a license. and most people that want a tattoo do not know that, which they should not have to, but its up to use to change it. I know allot of people that think this is the way to go but everyone has to do it. there allot of thing we need to chance and get up to date with there are alliance groups to join. which I think is great then all the professionals can work together.

Hey, "doesitmatter", you hostile little fuck. People have the right to share their opinion without some asshole with sand in his vagina making threats of physical violence. And don't ever use the word "respect" again. Like many people in this industry, you obviously have no clue what the word means but throw it around because you're a pathetic little parrot. I want to thank the rest of you. Now I understand that a paid apprenticeship might make the apprentice take it more seriously.

Two words for mister inksane klown p.ssy ...trade scerets..some of these guys are right ..yeah ..Im just tired of little girls like you walking in with mommy and da das credit card and buying a shop calling yourself pros ....stretched ears and heavily colored skin dosent make an artist ..butt lets not upset jesus here..I bet he types a million words a minute and he might get a sprain ripping me a new one oooh ..lets all be impressed!!!!

You're making quite a few assumptions there, pal. You know nothing about me and what you've assumed is very far from the truth - another word that seems to be lost on you.

i paid 1,000 for my apprenticeship. i'm currently 6 months in and couldn't be happier. i'd been tattooed there numerous times and the owner had seen my artwork in and out of there to be tattooed on others. one day, he called and offered me the spot. i'm coming along fairly quickly and that's because my mentor has many years in the field and lots of advice to provide. he pushes me hard to do my best and shows nothing but confindence. i don't regret paying. in reality it's a small price to pay for the knowledge and opportunities i've been given. i'm live in a smaller (but growing town) that is near DC, i would imagine that if i lived in a larger place, i'd be required to (and willing) to pay more. tattooing in my passion and what i want to do for as long as humanly possible.

doesitmater you are a complete fkin retard and a loser. get help.

In my opinion, a shop looking for an apprentice for the right reasons won't charge. An apprenticeship is a HUGE life commitment. In my opinion it's a bit crazy to have someone at your shop, more or less working a full time job AND expect them to pay you. Either you need to have some insanely rich parents, or work out your ass for that to work. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule. But I'd say places who charge an apprentice usually push them in and out the door just so they can "mentor" and charge someone else. I don't think paying for an apprenticeship by any means shows more dedication. Our apprentice hung around and bugged us, and bugged us.He took on 3 short shifts a week unpaid, just to prove he was serious, and wanted to be here... and did this for months, despite the fact he had another full time job, paints EVERY day, AND has a wife and two children. But it paid off because now he's our apprentice. That proves to be way more dedication to me then him just coming in with a check for us.

why shouldnt somebody pay to do an apprenticeship? College/uni etc is paid for - why the difference if they so choose?

Richard, You make a good point. But my counter-point would be that a college student doesn't, in addition to getting educated, perform janitorial or other services that benefit the school he is paying. If you pay for an apprenticeship, you should be learning at the shop, nothing more (yes, that includes routine cleaning, etc..). If you don't pay, then I'd say it's fair to do *some* unrelated labor.

yes I see what you mean. Inksane you always talk sense and have good points.

When we are looking for an apprentice we absolutely tell people theres a $5,000 fee and then another 5k a year in sweat equity. Khalil was not scared of that fee at all, and indeed is working his tuition of. In short, if an artist cant make 5 grand from their art, they either have problems (that we can help fix) or arent good enough. After all, if your art is good enough to put on someones skin for money, it better be good enough to sell on something else for money! So in short, I dont find any moral problems with charging someone to teach them. there is a value that goes back and forth and it can happen in a few difference ways. Also, Khalil was working unpaid, but was absolutely receiving credit for all his work. We dont expect something for nothing, and what we would pay him for his work goes into his tuition.

Thanks Richard. :) Gabe, as usual, you have a way of making me understand your point of view. By the way, I was checking out Khalil's (sp?) MySpace. You're lucky to have him and vice-versa.

i want to be a tattoo piercing artist and from what you say its a bitch to even be an apprentice. so i'm gunna end up getting fucked unless i find someone who gives a fuck. but a lot of what you guys are saying really helps me out thanks!

It's interesting to read in here that people do not think it's reasonable to pay money and work in a shop full time to learn the art of tattooing. Hell, in college, some people pay $40,000 for 16 weeks, and work their ass off in homework and have to work part time jobs. An apprenticeship is basically a form of secondary education, and a mentor deserves to be paid for their time and knowledge. Throughout my apprenticeship, I have worked another job on top of that just to make money so I can stay around. It's not uncommon for me to work anywhere from 9-16 hours a day, everyday. I've worked my ass off for this, but I know in the end, it's worth it. ($2500 + being at the shop every available minute I have). As far as contracts go, I think they're important, not just for the shop owner, but for the apprentice. You don't want to be screwed over in the end. Really, I think a better rule of thumb to a money scam is, if a shop says that you're not getting a job there at the end of your apprenticeship, then they're probably just trying to take your money and your free labor. Be smart about paying in installments too. They give you some knowledge, you fork over some cash... And it's not all on them to make you learn, there are plenty of resources out there, if you have to spend time outside of the shop reading books, or watching lectures, or whatever, it just makes you better in the end. This kind of education has a lot to do with what you put into it.

Great last post. And Gina, none of our apprentices have made the transition to tattooer, they had it too easy here.

Of course you would pay for an apprenticeship. It is just like any other school situation...you can't go to college for free!!!! This is a career that you will dedicate your life to and support yourself and your family with.

Just thought I should point something out. Just like getting a tattoo normally, you don't pay for ink, needles or any other supplies as they are all very inexpensive. You are paying for the artist's time and his artwork. The same goes for an apprenticeship. He will have to take a lot of time out to teach you things, when he could be tattoing someone making a living. They charge because that's what it would cost for those lost clients. I'm sure none of you will even read this, or even take light what I have said, but it's the truth. I'm willing to pay 2-5k$ if it's with some of the best guys out there, because I know if I were to get a year worth of tattoos from them, it would be way more. Here's an idea, stop bitching about how much an apprenticeship costs, and just do it or don't do it. Becoming a tattoo artists takes time and money. Me for example am taking classes in my university for drawing and painting, while I'm apprenticing with some of the best guys I know. I've grown to become friends with them all, and I've learned so much from my time. I would not take it back, and I would do it all over in a heartbeat, because I'm that dedicated, and motivated. Your lack of dedication just symbolizes that you're not really ready to become what it takes to be a REAL professional tattoo artist, and for that, I feel sorry for you.

I am not in the position to offer an apprenticeship now, but am open to the idea in the future. I also don't believe in the paid apprenticeship. I feel any money to be made should be working for the shop, doing good tattoos. Therefore it's imperative that the first person I take on(I have helped many but never really had an "apprentice") be a skilled artist in another medium. If the person is good, I will make my money. I made a tentative offer to a friend, when my business gets off the ground more. All I was asking? Just bring in 10 sheets of good, original flash and maybe an agreement to work for like a year or two. Thought that that was the best deal in the world, but apparently he did not think so. To him its a better deal to pay 5 grand and just learn to tattoo. "I am not that good an artist" he says. Well why the fuck do you want to get into tattooing? Any tattooist that would even talk about teaching someone without even looking at their art is a scammer as far as I am concerned. Needless to say, I won't make that offer again. I see a lot of this, apprenticeships reserved for buddies that are not good artists while skilled artists are turned away. Its true that just because you are skilled in one medium doesn't neccesarilly mean you will be a good tattooist. But no good tattooist is not skilled in at least on other medium like drawing or painting.

I like this inksane guy...we should be friends hahaha very well spoken on all of your points and i have to say that agree with them all. I personally got burned on a 1000 dollar app. fee from FOCUSED TATTOO...stay away people.Do your research..and GET IT ON PAPER if you do have to pay any dollar amount..Thats where i went wrong.Started off as "Oh you got 6 months to pay this off"..then literally 2 weeks later.."ayy man i'm gonna need half the fee by 2marrow" WHAT!!! oh ok lemme go get it...i didnt and dont have it like that..but i did anyways and i truelly..honestly..didnt learn a thing that i didnt already know or picked up a few bad habbits.If your around people that ONLY want to charge you..i'd reccomand just going to some great tattoo artist and pay them to TATTOO you! hey 5000 dollars can get you alot of amazing coverage! And best of all......Your allowed to watch and ask questions! So do so.If your like me...you'lll learn more just watching..and watch there every move..not just the tattoo being put on your skin!

people want to tax and den ask why people are scratching out da house. its called $urvival people!!!!! some people in this world...in america as well, dont have money for there next meal yet alone some overpriced education. som peeple will shoot som1 in there fuc*ing head for $20bucks! alot of people were born with a silver spoon up there ass and dont look at it from this perspective. there are reasons why scratchers exist. and what this topic is about, is one of those reasons.

Very interesting comments. I'm considering taking on an apprentice in my stained glass studio and your "pros and cons" have been helpful. Thank you. http://www.trickettglass.ca

ayayah, your argument reminds me of this song... Well you can't take the effect And make it the cause I didn't rob a bank because you made up the law Blame me for robbing peter Don't you blame Paul Can't take the effect And make it the cause

my thoughts on this subject are this, I have been tattooing for almost 2o years now, and I was self taught, I fucked up a few tats while learning my craft and have become a respected Artist. I feel that we should have the right to charge others to be taught what we have learned.Afetr all you pay to go to college, you pay to be taught to drive,hell you pay to be taught just about everything,...why not something that is going to be FOREVER?

my thoughts on this subject are this, I have been tattooing for almost 2o years now, and I was self taught, I fucked up a few tats while learning my craft and have become a respected Artist. I feel that we should have the right to charge others to be taught what we have learned.Afetr all you pay to go to college, you pay to be taught to drive,hell you pay to be taught just about everything,...why not something that is going to be FOREVER?

ac-dc who made you.... im proud to be a scratcher

pay up sucka

I paid 2600 in 2001. My apprenticeship was supposed to cost 3500, but after making regular payments and progressing forward in my artwork, I was awarded my certificate after 14 months (part time)... i was allowed to keep tips- but earned 0. I learned a lot and would highly recommend research- if an artist is worth talking about, he is worth the money- Would you trust a Dr. to operate on you that learned at home or wasn't willing to pay for a degree? hell no! being an artist first is a must, But remember that tattooing is essentially an operation...