SHOULD WE SNITCH?

Okay...I already told you guys ...here in my town there are a bunch of tattoo studios....in Missouri law dictates that any shop doing tattooing /piercing/ branding MUST be inspected and licensed by the state of Missouri...at this time only my studio and one other are licensed....this is a dilemna for me.Give me your thoughts.... I was taught to never, ever under ANY circumstances to "snitch" on ANYONE even my worst enemy....should I turn these assholes in or just shine them on...leave em alone?...What do you think?...These people KNOW what they are doing isn't right but dammit it just goes against the grain to be a Tattletale Gimme some advice people!....TAz

TAz, I honestly believe it's just bad karma if it isn't affecting you directly. If people (here, here) are too lazy or ignorant to do a little research and checking around, then they deserve what they get, whether it be just a fucked up tattoo, or hepatitus........ You've seen it time and again on this very forum, you can talk until you're blue in the face, and fuckers are gonna do whatever they want anyway. You're intentions are pure, but I'm just concerned about the rain of shit you may bring down on your establishment in the form of infantile retribution. It's not worth it, and stupidity SHOULD be painful!! TCE

*hepatitis*..............Doh!!!!

I assure you that we don't concern ourselves with anykind of retribution from any of these people Tim! We are well affiliated and I will leave that right there!...Its only the moral aspects that bother me...I think the karma thing is what will keep me from being a snitch though...Just can't force myself to do it! Hell 10 years ago they would have been firebombed but those days are gone...kinda miss em though!! Thanks pal!

There wouldn't be anything wrong with a cover up customer complaining to the right people now, would there?

Well now THATS a refreshing idea!

You just need to find a disgruntled guinea pig!!!!!!!!

Oh we have a LOT of those!...Damn near every day!!

Since you where instrumental in helping to set guide lines in your state for licencing I think you should,after all bad art is one thing.Public saftey is another.That's my 2 cents

Yeah, the disgruntled customer route crossed my mind right away, they have a direct link to the issue and have a direct complaint. Now... it's finding one who'll step up...

hey Taz, the bottom line here is that these guys are hurting your business, being that your state has rigid standards that you must adhere to, why should some scratcher fuck be immune to the laws that bind you?? SHUT THEM SCRATCHERS DOWN heres my 2 cents..... you got what 3 big clubs, maybe 4 in your area? send a few big scarry mothers out to find these bitches. they wont be hard to find, they are most likely trying to attract drunk customers down at the local 'wannabe' tavern. hey it might cost you a couple of bucks, but you know the job will get done, and you wont have 'snitching' on your conscience, only satisfaction bro.

Taz, I think I'd go as Mortis suggested, it would undoubtedly be quicker than waiting for the system to take care of it and/or waiting to find one of their victims to actually step up. We both know they will complain about the crap work they got but trying to find one with the balls to complain to the right people is a totally different thing. Come on, Piasan, surely you must have heard the saying 'make 'em an offer they can't refuse'...Doc

Yeah, now scarey motherfuckers I'm down with................................send 'em in there on the premise of getting a tattoo, and then have 'em look around, and ask where the license is...................................and then have 'em give those dweedlefucks a really scarey awakening!!!! Like, so that they pack up and leave town NOW!!!!!!! Good one Mortis! TCE

TAZ, I dont see anything wrong with "snitching" in a case like this because you ARE a community leader, in a case like this you know the right from wrong and you know the effect that shops like that can have on peoples health, so if you think about it this situation DOES directly affect you because now you have potential clients coming from those shops for cover ups who may very well have been infected with something that you are not going to want to deal with (regardless if they know it or not) and wouldnt you rather know! My advice is to snitch, BUT if you have any sort of responsible health department in your area I would do this: Go down there and grab a stack of their cards and have them on hand, when talk to these people......and im sure that most of them will show concern, give them a card, Explain the potential gravity of their decision to get work at one of these shops... tell them to get tested and tell them its ok to call the board of health to express their concern about their experience at one or all of these HACK SHOPS.......one person snitching may not stop these people BUT educate a community about the dangers and you can accomplish so much more. This is a technique I used for awhile wich led to 2 shops closing and another straightening out their act.........I hope this works for you , mike

Well whattya know just this morning the state people were here looking for shops that weren't licensed!!...Have so far shut down 2! The problem is apparently taking care of itself!! And I don't have to get my hands dirty OR become a snitch!! YAY!!!

Great news, Taz, hopefully they will check ALL the unlicensed shops and close ALL of 'em down. Ain't it grand when the system actually does what it's supposed to do?... And thanks for the emailed tips, much appreciated...Doc

Yer welcome Doc anytime!!!

Hey Taz, I'm feelin' you my problem is there's a shop in my area that is well, known for tattooing, and piercing minners. A couple months ago I had a girl come in w/ a very infected tattoo on her leg, she told me where she got it and I told her she needed to go back to where she got it so they could inform the tattooist that did it and health department. (In this state, dont know about yalls, we're requierd to report infections to the Health Department) Well anyway I told her she also needed to go tho the doctor. This is when she told me she couldn't because she didn't want to get in trouble, cause shes 17, and asked me if I take a look at it. I felt bad but Im not gettin' in the middle of it, I told her that and sent her on her way. The next day I get a call from the shop the tattoo was done at, (now I'm not here to pass judgement but if you have to make money tattooing minors, then theres probably a reason, and you should look for another job) So the guy starts yelling at me that he didn't know she was 17, (Like I'm who he needs to explain this to , not my problem) I told him what I told her, and added that if one of my client got an infection I would be happy he sent them to me so I could fix the problem, even though 99% of the time if done properly in a sterile enviroment if they get an infection it's thier fault, hell the girl could have been shaving over it for all I know. But again not my place to find out it's his 17yr old client, but ever since all they've done is run my name through the mud because they got busted for like the 10th time. But hell what do you do. Once a week someone tells me they said this or that and I just shke my head, my work speeks for it self, thats all I need.

Ditto Skittelz!

Sending other folks in to do your dirty work sounds pretty... well... weak. I mean that from both the "send in the boys" angle and maybe a little from the "send in the health guy" angle(though not really). We all know by now its FAR more beneficial to both the business and the public to focus every and all efforts on positive change for the better and leaving all the chaff behind. Of course everyone knows that by cultivating positive change your network becomes that much stronger... by taking the high road you always end up stronger with more friends... Getting into scraps isnt really a good long run strategy... I guess sending in the health guy to clean up a dangerous mess is a positive thing to do, and if its a matter of telling someone to do their job and keep the public safe, I cant fault that. I wouldnt do it for business reasons (Id work hard to make a better business), I might consider doing it for public safety reasons. I would take(er, do take) a two pronged strategy... Produce spectacular work and educate the public. And get a little better at both every day. Lastly, my target market has never been uneducated kids who dont understand quality. It is educated custom tattoo collectors (even first timers can be educated tattoo collectors). Hence, we focus our efforts on educating the community and word spreads fast about quality work. It might take a few years, but it happens every time. The scratchers around here may cut into a little of our business, but for the most part we dont really want to tattoo the people who dont know any better (but you betcha we try to educate everyone so they DO know better).

Damn right!

Which was my question exactly....and your answer was perfect. And no I have NEVER sent anyone to do my "dirty work"I prefer of course to avoid dirty work as it were when possible but I am quite capable of doing what must be done and take care of my own business. Taking the high road is exactly what I have been doing and why I asked the question I did. Educating the public has been my goal for MANY years ...its not such a novel idea...My studio has stood on its own for a long time now and maybe I led you all to believe that these "shops" were hurting my business...no, they are not! I still feel an obligation to try to protect even the clients that we may not necessarily WANT to work with or who probably could not afford us. THATS what my question was about...these assholes aren't hurting my business one bit but still in all they are damaging "OUR" business as a whole. Anyway the problem has apparently taken care of itself ...it seems the state and local people have decided to actually do their jobs and are agressively pursuing unlicensed studios so this has now ventured into the realm of "moot points" Thank you all for your ideas, they were appreciated!...TAz

taz ,give me the #'s and the info and i will dime them in for you ......

I appreciate that Karma but as I said I prefer to do my own"dirty work" as it were....and the problem,small enough but annoying, seems to have been resolved or at least is in the process of being resolved...T

You know Taz, the shitty thing is about the town we live in that even though the shops might be shut down until they get their heads out of their ass is this....There are still going to be the little punk following that clings onto these places that will say, "Yeah, fuck the man! I'm still going there!"....know what I'm getting at? Fuckers ain't never going to know the difference and that plain sucks....J

.....To bad there isn't a way to get their ugly mugs on the news..... Because you know word isn't going to get out otherwise..... I hate this fucking town.....

Unfortunately it ain't just your town J and I also agree, if it weren't for the idiots that go to these places, they WOULDN'T be causing the crap they do and most of US wouldn't be dealing with the flax it causes. I think I've heard it all by now, "yeah, I know it's crap, but I couldn't afford what you guys charge" (as he's trying to figure out how he's gonna come up with considerably MORE money to get it repaired-IF it can be) "they did it cheap because they are just starting" and it LOOKS like it! I've told people for YEARS, even if it's Free it might not be worth it- and what kind of price tag do YOU put on embarrassment. Plus, I tell 'em, 'if ya think Good Tattoos are expensive, check out the price of Laser Removal-and how much THAT hurts' I reckon 'bout all we can do is do our best to do good/safe tatoos, try to educate the general public and try to accept the sad fact that some people are simply STUCK ON STUPID and there ain't much we can do about it-ya can't just shoot 'em, they have all these stupid laws. Bear with it ,son, it's part of the life...Doc

Taz How about contacting the local newspaper and have them run a series on tattoo's and good health practices in the tattoo shops? I mean have them give out postive advice for the readers to know what to look for in a good clean shop. Katwoman

Laws to protect public safety are there for a reason. If they are breaking them, I wouldn't snitch at first, but that said I would talk to them tell the they need to clean up their act or be reported. It's their duty to check ID. They don't have it they don't get the tat. You look under 30, I'd be asking for ID... Sterile enviroment... if someone brings you work by another shop that's infected... tell them take it back to the artist... I they balk tell them it's your duty to report it if they don't take the proper course of action, both the customer or shop. It's nice when the system works... If someone reports an unlicensed shop, it's the shop's fault(if they were doing it right they wouldn't have got reported)... Working from home is one thing... at a shop the average, I think just turned 18 customer and want a tat, doesn't know any better... they expect and wrongly assume that since the license is required, they have it. Is it the customer's fualt if they don't know better? Stupidity should be painful, but should naivety?

Unfortunately the mentality of this particular town doesn't allow enough room for common sense or giving a good God damn.... and that is about as simple as I can put it without writing a small novel on the socialogical idealism as pertaining to the public of St. Joseph.

I have a similar type of problem in my area. Over the past few years a shop that I wont name for posterity sake has been advertising that they are the only licensed shop in the area, which they are not. There are two other licensed shops, one is the shop that I have been apprenticing under and the other is a quality family shop that's been there longer than both us and the guys who claim to be the only licensed shop are known for infections and, shotty work, and a few minors getting worked on. Talkin a lil shit/spreading rumors is annoying yes, but these guys have taken the general cut throat approach too far. They have set up adds on radio stations 2 hours away in oklahoma city trying to get business before the ban lifts in oklahoma in november. I have no problem with trying to get business in and whatnot but isn't defaming other shops a shitty way of getting that business. We don't feel too much bite from these advertisements. These guys don't have a many repeat customers and have a very bad rep, but still. What would you guys do?

Crackbaby...unless and until they specifically name YOU or YOUR shop they are unfortunately free to say what they want where they want.....Sucks !

Crackbaby, isn't there a way for you to somehow talk to the people responsible for the "advertising".. as in.. "y'know, I saw yer add, and umm... it's completely false..." so on and so forth. In my experience, typically, people who make shit up are the first to start cowtowing. Meaning, as soon as you confront them that you know about their dirtywork, it tends to solve the problem temporarily. In any case, we have quite a few shops up here that tatt underage (I mean, like, 14... ). Horrible work, infections, bleeding colors, etc. Problem is, health department is so busy with the restaurants and rental properties they have no time to check out the shops. Either way, whenver I refer someone, I refer em to the one place I know who's clean, experienced (20+ years) and licensed. Something else: positive advice goes ten times farther than negative. I'm sure quite a few of the artists here can attest to that.

That's basically the way we're tacking it T. Our shop as well as the other in town had made it a point to the jackasses but they just dropped it from local stations. Kinda pussy ass if you ass me. but whatever. OUr shop got offed by a tornado/winds a few months ago so we are moving a little furhter north anyway.

IN NEW YORK WE HAVE A POLICY "SNITCHES GET STICHES" dont think that you are exclusive from anyone, the reason they do that is probably is to make sure you RED NECKS dont operate METH LABS yeehaw

Yeah well we rednecks also have a motto..."punks GET punked" so go fuck yourself...punk!

you must be talkin to yourself, u crackhead..instead of worrying about someone else, concentrate on your ARTWORK instead of ACTING LIKE A GAY CHEERLEADER about Snitchin on other Business legitimate or not....now who sounds like the PUNK.....Apologize to me you FOOL!!!!

you must be talkin to yourself, u crackhead..instead of worrying about someone else, concentrate on your ARTWORK instead of ACTING LIKE A GAY CHEERLEADER about Snitchin on other Business legitimate or not....now who sounds like the PUNK.....Apologize to me you FOOL!!!!

New York WHERE? Cuz, seriously, aside from NYC, this state has some of the shittiest work come out of it, with a TON of scratchers. BTW, proud-ass redneck here, you best watch throwin that term around like it's deragatory, cityboy.

TAz, Red, this is just another self important little prick whose teeth wouldn't be worth pissing on if his gums were on fire. I'll wager you guys anything you'd like that there's nothing he can do if doesn't get the apology he thinks he's due? TCE

I couldn't care less if he COULD (TRY) to do something...hes just another forum troll! Apologize?...Ok...I'm sorry I didn't kiss your mom goodnight last night...and just to set the record straight dumbass ( which I wouldn't have to do if you were intelligent enough to read the post) I haven't snitched on ANYBODY....although the common concesus was that I SHOULD...Thats just not me....and if you had read further down you'd see that the problem took care of itself...I just wanted opinions from the intelligent people on here..(guess that diqualifies you then doesn't it?)....so before you start accusing anyone of anything get your facts straight moron

Ya know what amazes me is just how brave and badass these trolls can be...callin names and such juvenile crap on a public forum when they know they are anonymous...And ya KNOW that they wouldn't say a fucking word if you were standing in front of them...Keyboard cowards...they can be as tough as they wanna be on the internet!!...Its pitiful.

Well, you know that they WOULD say something if they weren't so busy cleaning the crap out of their pants!!! Ever notice how they cry like little girls when the fists start flying, and then all of the sudden it's YOU picking on a KID? Time and again................... TCE

If the "KID" has the balls to step up, it's only decent to put him down. He won't learn any other way.

TCE, RED, TAZ again its not about work, scratchers or kissin my Mom (who has past away thank you) its about being a YELLOW BELLIED SNITCHER " Death before Dishonor" instead of apologizing you 3 form a TRAIN and FUCK YOURSELFS

We'll do just that Rob, but you still ain't ever gonna get that apology!!! You go fuck your mothers corpse, okay!?! In the meantime, TAz, Red, line 'em up boys! TCE

Keaz, I'm proud of you son.......................now you're learning!! I'm surprised they didn't beat that ethic into you in the Marine Corps. TCE

Um, no. In this field, death can COME from dishonor (i.e. diseases from unlicensed, unethical slobs and scratchers who do shoddy, unsanitary work). No body snitched, if you read the flippin post, you'd have seen that. When you learn to read, feel welcome to come back and discuss like an adult. But, when you throw a hissy fit like my toddler does, you lose credibility, not to mention respect. Congratulations on making yourself look like a complete ass.

We had a similar problem when I worked at a local shop here. We had a few scratchers running shops in the area and the health department would never do anything about it.. finally we had a lawyer put together complaint forms for any customers coming in for cover-ups and fixes on the tatts they got from these idiots. They had to fill out the forms and we would take photos before we would fix the work. After we turned in over 100 complaint forms the health department finally stepped up and done there jobs.

And before anybody calls me a snitch, We would have never started anything against these ppl if we wouldnt have seen so many horrible tatts coming from there shops. Hell we were actually on good terms with a lot of scratchers in the area. We would offer our shop and clean equipment to a few of these guys that did great work, so that they were atleast doing safe work and didnt run the risk of getting in trouble.

On the subject of snitching, i'm with y'all (except Rob: i suggest a tongue brand). On a slightly broader subject: in any of your states/towns is there any public education on this? Maybe your state legistatures would even put a couple bucks in it if it's a big problem. Looks to me like this is the long-term approach to scratching out scratchers: erode their client base. Maybe if more folk knew what can happen to them, they might (just maybe) think twice.

NO rRas...it just doesn't work that way ....as long as there are scratchers there are people who will risk their lives to go to them...we have been fighting them for years man and it has no end...all we can do is try to educate those we can.

*Sigh*... i know. The lure of the cheap can be irresistible. But i'm sure some kind of public ed would help. If it could make one kid think twice...

Which is a good reason a lot of us are on here Ras....If we can keep one person from getting a bad tattoo or worse a fatal disease then the hours we devote to this site was worth it!