SOLDIERS

Just a breif background. I am in the Canadian Forces (ARMY). I was 4 years in the Infantry (knee injury) so i have spent the last 7 years in Electronic Warfare. A recent survey in Canada has shown that the majority of Canadians (those involved with the polls I suppose) are against our troops being in Afghanistan. The reason I bring this up, is I belive that there are alot of Americans that are against your soldiers being in Iraq. (same story, different place) All I ask is this... If you are against it.. That is fine with me! Be against the war, it dosent bother me (everyone is entitled to their own opinion) , but just remember this... It is not my choice (or any other soldiers) to go to war. We do what we are told to do and go where we are told to go! So if you support the war or not.. you better support the soldiers that are fighting in it! I have on many occasions stopped at the grocery store for something on my way home from work (still in uniform) and had people thank me for what I do. THAT IS A GREAT FEELING!!! When I was in the Persian Gulf, just after 9/11 we got letters mailed to us from a grade 2 class back here in Canada. Although they had no idea who we were, it felt really good to read these letters. I myself mailed a bunch of post cards back to these kids (with pictures of camels etc..) so bottem line... What ever your political beliefs are... SUPPORT YOUR TROOPS!! oh... and just to make this post relivant for being on a tattoo forum, being a soldier is one of the few careers that having tatt's is totally exceptable! (as long as they arent racisit etc...) Well now I had my chance to rant.... Thanks for listening! Baker sendz.............

Does Canada have an all volunteer military as does the U.S.? How is it that you mandate, or say, "You better support the troops".? First of all, this is a free society. People have the freedom of expression, and belief, and the right to support whatever they damn well feel like! Now, I know everyone is going to fire back with "You have those freedoms because soldiers fight to protect them". Historically, in most cases I would agree with that notion. Certain skirmishes we as a nation have chosen to get ourselves into have had nothing to do with MY personal freedoms, this current bullshit being one of them. This is about anything EXCEPT that! 99% of Nazi Germany was just doing what they were told too, because of brainwashing propaganda that was inflicted upon them. Not every one of those assholes was a General. They bought into the whole program, hook, line, and sinker, and few of them stopped to analyze what the fuck they were really doing. But they really BELIEVED in the cause. This is the fucking problem, no one wants to bother to think for themselves anymore. In that way, they can't be held accountable for actions taken. Now, I do support the troops, but again because I think that they for the most part believe a lot of the same shit that's being spoon fed to them. Some have signed up and shipped out long after the gravity of the situation came to light. I support an individuals right to respond to his call to duty if he or she feels so inclined, but I have the FREEDOM to not support them if I so choose. Personally, supporting the cause would help make it easier. Whatever the case, soldiers are doing a job they willingly signed a contract to do. It isn't like they signed up for a desk job, and then one day they woke up and were like "You want me to do what!?!". I'm sure their primary objective was made clear on their first day of boot camp, if not before then. Unfortunately, the cost of raising these individuals was incurred mostly by hard working poor to middle class familys, and it's an insult for the government to callously ship them off as if they were expendable. At the very least, they should be provided with the absolute best equipment and supplies necessary to do effectively do that job. If a helicoptor can't fly in the desert, or defend itself against a primitive shoulder mounted rocket, then the government should be spending money developing ones that can so that these guys aren't sitting ducks. Contracts for producing body armour shouldn't go to the lowest bidder. Humvees shouldn't be built like a Suburban. I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I just want people to think and analyze things rationally so that maybe after we've squandered all of our resources, we won't be so quick to act in haste the next time.I know that's a lot to expect. Oh wait a minute,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, we've just acquired a whole bunch of new resources. You and I are buying it at $3.50 a gallon! Or is that litres? Peace to you TCE

TCE, Yes, Canada has a voluntary military. I understand your point of view, I may not agree with you, but hey like I said before, everyone is entittled to their own opinion! Baker sendz...............

Oh, and I forgot to ask a question.. If your home was invaded by whomever, I am sure you would expect Your military to come and help wouldnt you? I am sure that everyone in your country that the military has ever helped directly, (ie. war, disaster, etc..) all support their troops! Wouldnt you think? Baker sendz......................

Like I said, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just trying to be introspective, and to analyze the details of a situation before just jumping on the bandwagon. I do support the troops, but I do believe that this effort is a futile attempt to accomplish who knows what at any cost. If you look at my other posts, you would know that I am not a passivist, and I'm all for kicking the shit out of anyone who attacks us on our soil. But only once we've established beyond any reasonable doubt who was responsible. I'm not for taking action against another nation simply because they MAY pose a threat. That is tyranny!!!!!!!!!!!! I responded because you have a point of view that doesn't necessarily reflect my own. It doesn't make a lot of sense to for all of us to just post things if we are already in total agreeance with each other on a particular topic. You are serving your country to defend our right to debate, which is a freedom that needs to be preserved. For that, I support you whole heartedly, because once we start attacking each other verbally, what follows next? What tats do you have? Thankyou for you insight TCE

This subject has absolutely nothing to do with tattooing however I feel compelled to out in my two cents worth... Baker you already know via our private e-mail how I feel about this subject.. I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS...PERIOD... And Tim..while I don't subscribe to your point of view I will defend to the death your right to have it and shout it from the mountaintops...I don't think we should be losing our men in Iraq...I hate what I'm seeing...another Vietnam essentially...I regret every single American life lost in that godforsaken country...it SUCKS... Now...what to do about it?... VOTE!!!...Become active in politics!...Spread your beliefs...I think this country is at the point that they just may listen...I think we are all tired of seeing our people die and our money wasted...write your senators and congressmen and the president ...not just once...KEEP WRITING THEM ...keep telling them that you want it to stop...if enough people make their views known it will make a difference... Until then I support our troops!...TAz

By the way ...TCE and Baker...I want to thank you for being our new "regulars" on tattooNOW....we appreciate your posts...its always nice to look forward to intelligent posts as opposed to the many umm well..."unintelligent" posts we get so many of. Thanks again and keep posting!!!...Peace...Taz, Painted Angel

Taz, Glad to be welcome here! I luv this place! Baker sendz................

Although TAz did make a point that the thread really has nothing to do with tattooing it does show that we do have some intelligence, common sense, and the ability to use that mooshy thing between our ears to voice our opinions in an educated manner. That kind of thing completely mind-fucks the stereotypists of the world. But hell, why give ourselves away so easily?....Anyone have a Harley shit and chaps I can borrow?

Hahaha....can you spell s.h.i.r.t!? Furnt!

TCE I am always up for that! I agree with you, if we all had the same opinion what fun would that be!! I love to debate with people, as long as it doesnt come to name calling etc... No hard feelings! Its all good! My wife wants to make a page with pictures of all my tatt's, when she does (if she ever gets around to it) i will post it for ya! Have A Good One! Baker sendz...........

Baker, Absolutely no hard feelings. It's because of guys like you that we have an all volunteer military, and if nothing else, EVERYONE should support you guys for that. Some shit happened in a restaurant yesterday over my tattoos, and it sort of pissed me off. I posted a question about something that really probably had nothing to do with the incident, and this sort of ties in with the whole theme of the discussion that began as a result. I was by no means attacking your point of view, just raising what I felt to be valid points. I hate politics, and there was a time when I never watched the news, and I was a much happier person. Ignorance really is bliss. Let us know when you get your site up. Best Regards TCE

See?... Now THIS is what its all about! THIS is how its supposed to be... We can argue debate and go at each other but we can be civilized!...Its GREAT! I LOVE IT... I'll argue with you two guys any ol time!!!...TAz

TAz, I meant to reply to you earlier, but had to take care of some business. Thanks for your input on this and the "Other" topic. I don't expect that you or any normal person would share my views, I have a tendency to look through the eyeglass in reverse, and that's why I've stated several times that as I get I older I realize that I probably don't know shit about anything. My views on some things have done a complete 180 from 20 years ago, and I have to accept that they may change again. But I appreciate that you at least take the time to look at what's really being said before making a pre-emptive strike simply because you feel your principles may be under fire. No two people will ever agree all of the time, so the best I could hope for is that we will agree most of the time. I read your ideas on how I should have handled yesterdays incident, and I will keep them on tap should I ever run into a similar situation. Your point that one thing had nothing to do with the other was right on the mark, and I guess what upset me more than anything was that the one thing I used to fire back at this person wasn't appropriate. The proper response should have been "Because the law allows me to.", not twisted the other way around. Anyway, I'm done being political. Being a newcomer to this site, I didn't intend to jump in neck deep within the first few days,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,And now I just want to talk about tattoos, cars, music, whatever. Take care man TCE

hey i'm a soldier in the Army.. let me just say one thing... i thought this was spose to be a board that talked about tattoos....?? what's all this other political bullshit?? (with respect to the mods here, i ain't trying to be a boss here, so no offense)... hey man, ya know there are boards out there that you can discuss this shit at... this happens to be a tattoo board.. take the hint... ain't saying not to talk up here... but if you are, at least stay in the theme and respect the ppl that run this board and keep the channel on tattoos... if you don't like it, change the channel.... hey you might like military.com i talk there sometimes... they've got a shitload of forums there.... check it out... but like i said before.... whats the deal? Where the tat talk in this thread? oh yeh, i remember... there ain't none..

Hey TCE...This is a tattoo oriented site and that was a tattoo oriented post so its cool man!...And even so we are human and sometimes need to vent...we are kind of a family here and hell you can talk about anything...even our fearless leader Gabe spouts off now and again about non tattoo topics (and we let him cause its his site!l..LOL!!!) Seriously though most of us who post on here are friends even if it is only on the computer screen...and a damn fine buncha people they are too...so anytime ya need to vent just bring it on...thats what makes life worth livin dude!! So when is yer next tattoo session?...TAz

A lot about tattooing is about opening your mind. I dont mind if people talk off topic about politics or other off topic posts at all.

cant we all just get along? just kidding im not gonna put in any political stuff but enjoyed reading both sides. like taz said its cool to see you guys posting tce and baker. im a big hockey fan and im sorry to see ottawa lose baker and im still rooting for the sharks tce. not that anyone cares. oh and id also like to welcome the new artist formely known as taz. hes become our new welcome commitee. you know im just breaking em off on ya taz its that end of the week thing again...lol

Cut him some slack ya'll! If it wasn't for these new guys, you'd have to put up with me all the time and you'd be reading posts about tazblasters and belly dancers and stuff like that!!! (l0l)

And thats what makes this such a great forum...see folks I told ya! Hey Gabe hows Hell City?

Okay, let's talk about tattoos. TAz, my next session is on the 22nd. I've been spacing them about 2 weeks apart after the basic outlines were done. This way, it's like getting another foot tattoo every time I go in. There's nothing like the sensation of a needle ripping through your foot, and I want to savor this pain for as long as I can! No, really, I had originally scheduled next Monday, but something came up, and it's probably better anyway. I think every two weeks allows the work to heal up a little more, and then I can better assess what to focus on in subsequent sessions. There is one flame tip located on my shin, and two on my calf that I had my artist sort of extend upward a little bit last Monday, only two weeks after the initial outline was done. I think I fucked up. The new tips on my calf look great, but the one on my shin is surrounded by an angry looking shade of pinkish red about an inch in diameter. Theres no liquid oozing out of it, but it is sort of sore and lumpy. To open up the area where the original tip ended, he colored it in with the magenta that we are using for the inner border What worries me is that too much ink may have been forced into the area, or the skin in that spot was overworked, or reworked too soon, and that the magenta may have bled into the surrounding tissue, accounting for the pink tinge that's hanging on tenaciously. The new outline doesn't look very well defined, and right now the whole thing looks like shit. This wasn't the artists fault. He was simply doing what I asked, and the touch up on the back worked out fine. In fact, if you look at the pic I sent, it's the blue flame at the top dead center of my left calf. Maybe I'll send you a pic of this other one and see what you think. I probably need to just let it dry heal for a few days and stay away from the moisturizers in that spot. Thanks again for your encouragement TCE

Oh, and Crockett, yes...............GO SHARKS!

Crockett, Thanks for the sympathy of the Sens.. but don't worry about it! I was born and raised in TORONTO! (yeah we know how the leafs story goes this year!) I lived in Ottawa for 4 years, and was one of the few leaf fans there! I am not a fan of the Sen's at all! But thanks anyways! Toronto Maple Leaf's 2006-2007 Stanely Cup Champs! (he a guy can dream can't he!?) Baker Sendz................

Everyone seems to get all pissed when a subject other than tattoos. Well, to hell with that! This site is more for the tattoo community and as such should represent a wholistic view of both tattooers and tattooees(not sure if that's a word). Maybe I'm outa line but, the ideas and opinions of tattoo artists should be open for discussion here. If people think a tattoo artist or collector is only that then the tattooes that are out there are just that nothing but tattooes and my tattooes all have something to do with me and my opinions and experiences. Or maybe as usual I'm just full a shit!

Ill try to be quick. Ha! These are difficult issues that involve the very lives of our friends and family, and the friends and families all around the world. I'll try to tread lightly while expressing my views. It is generally accepted that the moral repercussions of the militaries actions do not lie on the shoulders of the soldiers, but on the public. After all, the military does what the public requests, and has to unconditionally to work. For better or worse, life isnt fair and reality isnt perfect. We know for certain that soldiers indeed share the moral responsibility of their actions with the public but are not immune. War crime trials remind us of this every few decades. This is exceptionally difficult and sensitive, especially for the soldiers we have put in harms way. Without being there, I truely believe war is hell and horrible things happen, and I an very concerned feel for the mental well-being of our soldiers, as well as their safety of course. The trust that soldiers place in the publics hands is the most sacred ever. The young men and women of our military are risking their very lives at our request. It is of the utmost importantce that the public makes 100% certian its soldiers are properly trained, equipped, healthy, and that their lives are only placed in danger when every single diplomatic alternative has been completely exhausted. I am not a constitutional lawyer but I do believe that going to war without having Congress and the Senete declare it is illegal, and most certainly not the intent of our forefathers who fought against this type of power. The public is responsible for the moral actions of our military, the public needs to decide to send the military in harms way. Human life is the most important gift have received and we owe it to the people who trust us with their lives to never risk that gift un-necessarily. I believe that the public is ultimately responsible for keeping this moral bond complete, and Im afraid this administration has betrayed both the soldiers it has sent into harms way without regard to diplomatic solutions and the public that was docile enough to let this happen. I wont shift blame to anyone, I could have worked harder to stop this. I can only imagine life in a war zone, but I try to every day because I feel morally responsible for sending our troops there. I am not a child and dont need the same protection, I want to see images strait from the war so I can more completely realize the results of my actions (and inactions). If I take the responsibility off the soldiers shoulders for their actions over there(and I would like to) then it lies squarely on mine. What I dont like is an administration that shifts the moral weight to my shoulders yet at the same time hides the very results of those actions from me. Live feeds from war zones. Photos of coffins. It is the ultimate disrespect to the dead to hide them from us. The dead and wounded are the results of our actions and if we can make the decesions to go to war, we owe it to the dead to honor them publicly and not to hide them from view. I dont want to see it, but I am responsible for it happening. No matter how I try to excuse myself that this administration doesn't speak for me, I am an American and they do the publics bidding. I am part of the public, I feel responsible for what it happening. All Americans should. Its difficult feeling the weight but not knowing whats really happening over there. I could get into war profiteering and all that, but Im trying to be short and non-political or specific. I absolutely support funding for training, equipment, health, and benefits for the men and women who trust us with their lives. A government that doesnt pull out all stops to fund the troops (not the military industrial complex, but the troops... I make sure not to confuse the two) is un-patriotic by its very nature. PS Hell city was an amazing time! So many great artists, Joe Capos' book release (AMAZING book!!!!), tattoos, sites, memberships, fun!