tattoo practice skins

does anyone have experience with the fake practice skins ?they seem to be hard to work with color does not seem to cover well and lines seem harder to lay down.also does anyone notice that they seem to dull needles quickly.how about grapefruit is it a better surface to practice with closer to real skin . any info would be helpful . thanks

That stuff is crap.Grapefruit is really anything like skin either, and you cant really color it as far as i remember. I hate giving info to someone learning at home, but since you have the good sense to not touch a person, i will tell you that your local butcher may be able to provide some pig ears for ya, or try poultry. But to be honest i would save that money and get yourself an apprenticeship. Your mentor will show you what to use, and what to do. If your serious about tattooing, you need to take the learning part serious too.

Agreed, go and get an apprenticeship. It's worth it, especially if you get someone who knows their shit. It's better to do it the right way the first time to avoid problems in the future.

I agree with your assesment. Thought I would see how a piece turned out with the thought of framing later- was interested to see how these showed after completion. In my opinion, not well at all. Dulls needles relatively quick, and laying smooth color is all but impossible (takes way too many passes to get a solid color with normal shading strokes and techniques). In my opinion, if you learn with the stuff you are just developing techniques to turn your future clients into chopped burger. I saw on the web somewhere a group claiming that this would be the next art wave- blodless tattooing. Interestingly enough, the color pieces they display are visually characteristic of the issues I am describing- transitions (gradual fading or blending of colors) on their sample pieces were abrupt and choppy. Starngely enough, looks to me like the people who made this stuff are behind the site. I will say, however, that my experience with the stuff so far is limited to Superiors product- not sure if others are the same consistency, etc. I would hate to work anything bigger than 6 x 6 with the stuff I was testing- what a waste of time.

Hi. I beg to differ. Heres a few of mine. I agree however that it takes much more work to get it in the synthetic though. http://paleojohn.com/Tattoo.html

This site is ruined by pricks saying.......apprentice, apprentice, apprentice! I tought myself at home and now have two studios in London. I'm doing very well thankyou very much! Give these lads a chance and just answer their questions instead of slagging them down. Whats up are you frightened that your toss off job is at risk if you encourage competition?? Give them a break for gods sake. ;)

Ed, do you have a site where we can see your work? Or your shops? Just being curious. Not trying to be a "prick" but you aren't the first person to have come on here and claimed that they are self taugh and own multiple shops. And 9-times-oughta-10 they turn out to be nothing but trolls.... Hope to hear back from ya.....J

Yes Ed lets see some work...and while you are at it lets see pics of the hundreds of people you fucked up while you were teaching yourself...Probably didn't keep THOSE pics though did ya?....I'm not sayin ya can't learn on your own...there are plenty of idiots out there who will let a hack butcher them up for practise!!...No real professional would tell someone to learn on their own...thats absurd at best....there is only one way to learn on your own and that is to permanently scar up a bunch of really stupid people til ya start gettin good....afraid of losing MY job?...dream on pal...not while there are hackers like you out there "practicing" on people and they come to me to cover up the mess you made out of them while you were learning!! Keep on "learning on your own MORONS!!!...I need a new boat!...By covering up your human practise skins you have already bought me everything else!!!!! TAz

Hey, I've never done a tattoo at all, I was hunting down cheap practice skins when I came upon this site. I know I need to get an apprenticeship so don't get pissy because I am learning on my own. As of now I simply want something to get my hand used to the vibrations of the machine and all the technical stuff involved. I am learning from someone close to me who is capable, though I will admit not amazing. I intend to get an apprenticeship later if I can find one. Where I live there is one tattoo shop and from what I've heard it was three people who were high at all times, not so sure I wish to learn from that, but I will find out for myself. Don't be too hard on us learn-at-home-rs. Just because I want to use some skins to get the basics doesn't mean that I trust at all that they will teach me to do a tattoo on flesh. If I cannot find an apprenticeship, I will practice on myself if I must; I will do that long before I will other people that is. So while I am here, would any of you know of a place in the vicinity of Morehead, Ky that I COULD get a good apprenticeship?

evreyone who trys to defend a person learning at home should stop now all that does is put half assed artists out there that will inevitably fuck people up and possibly do real damage, the only way to do this is by GETTING A APPRENTICESHIP and learning the right way by an experienced artist, and yes its hard to get an apprenticeship but they are out there dont just walk into shops expecting to get one without knowing them, get to know the people you wanna work with develop a relationship with them even get tattooed by them, this is the only way to do it right unless you wanna fuck people up then all the power to you more people that will come to me looking for quality work

actually it is possible to be self taught you guess need to give them a break some people do have knowledge to know that they need to be clean not reuse needles use autoclave,open fresh needles in front of the client so they do know that they are new as well as new tubes for each person and how to use shaps .and proper handleling of needles. but some of you do not give people that are just starting a break you right away say apprentice or go to school well what good does that get honestly.you can can study more on the net as well as at the library and as you can aprentice. so for crying out loud give them a break they just want some advise not some jerk they love art also otherwise the wouldn't be trying to be getting into it.yes some of use (unknowledge do also sleep and dream of the machine and the next time we will have the machine in our hand the sweet buzz) oh wait but we are idiots if we do not apprentise right no we just want to hear what you think.remember some have it some don'tbut you don't allways need to be so quick to judge... just remember be clean guys no matter what we are not here to spread disease we are here to help show our art.

well, I am not a tat artist, but I am a ALT model who would like to get started on her ink. I am looking to get a full armpiece and a calf piece, but tats are mad expensive. I ahve 10 piercings, most of them tastefully in my face,so I am done with piercing. If any tat artists needs practicee skin, I will dedicate my skin to you. HOWEVER, YOU MUST HAVE WORK TO SHOW ME AND AT A LEAST ONE REFERENCE.

Dan Dimattia is a self taught tattoo artist and that guy is the man. i'm sure theres also plenty of other big name artists out there but what do you haters say to them? i can't think of any off the top of my head but what if guy atchison was self taught...what are you going to say to someone like him?...NOTHING BECAUSE HIS WORK IS BETTER THAN 70% OF THE ARTISTS OUT THERE! so dont be so hard on the people who have a real drive to learn. Theres more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. everyone on here seems to suck on gabes balls about his shop and all that but if anyone else wants to open a non-artist run shop all you hear is "oh no i would never work for a non-artist run studio!!...you dont deserve respect...blah blah blah". i'm not dissin' gabe here because i know he does alot of good for the tattoo community but you fuckers all shut out other people who wish to do the same without finding out what THEY have to offer the tattoo community. i have never seem more hypocrites in my life than MOST not all but MOST of the people on this forum. go fuck your self righteous selves.

Practice skins are cool and all, and they have actually been around for years ...its called a pig ear from the butcher....BUTT...How do you get an apprenticeship? you keep asking and trying untill you get one and actually sacrafice something for it ! however..if you cant fight the itch to get better ..do it on a pig ear and dont get killed for your troubles of learning at home..and as for that guy who says its cool to learn at home and he owns bla bla bla shops..well. lets just say thats whats wrong todayin tattooing. Yeah Im self taught to and own a shop..butt that didnt mean it was right. It meant I got lucky...o.k .GET AN APPRENTICESHIP!!!

For a long time I have been an avid fan of tattoos. I have a huge back piece, both my arms are sleeved up, and my chest is completely covered. Unfortunately three years ago a t.v. fell on my head and crushed three vertebrae, which ended the career path I was on at the time. I have since been on disability and unable to earn a living. I can't afford school anymore, and the nearest shop I would apprentice at is a 45 minute drive. It's not exactly possible for me to apprentice right now, so I got a machine and everything I needed to learn. Now I'm not doing people at all, other than myself. I really don't care about what is on my legs because my chosen career path before this was BMX and they are covered in scars anyway. I always pay attention when I am getting inked. I always set up the machines in front of my artist for him, as well as the area and ink. However, he moved to Oregon and I only see him once or twice a year now. I honestly feel I am not killing anyone by practicing myself at home. When I can, and before I am licensed I will apprentice so I can get the business and actual workings down, but to rag on people so bad for learning at home is retarded. Plenty of famous and hugely talented artist taught themselves. I'm not saying they should open a shop in their living room, but I have to say anyone willing to get tattooed by an unlicensed do it yourselfer deserves to be fucked up, and as long as this kid is trying that shitty fake skin, and not 14 yr. olds I really don't see what the huge fucking deal is. If he gets licensed he is good enough. If he doesn't than sucks to be him. Anyway, that fake skin sucks ass. Pig skin is what I use and it works pretty pissa. Make sure you practice enough. Draw a lot. Even if it's crap you don't want to draw. If you don't have a machine to practice with add weight to a pencil or pen to get the feel. About 7.5 ounces on the end just to get your and used to it before you even touch a needle. I actually still draw with a pencil in my machine to keep myself used to it while I am dickin around. And guys, take the sticks out of your asses, in an ideal world everyone would have an apprenticeship, but that's just not always possible, nor is it always 100% necessary. I can't get one now, but I'm still going to practice until I can get one, because this career is my family's last hope and doing whatever it takes does not involve sitting on my ass until gas prices go down.

The last post made more sense than any of the others.. Wow is all I can say.. no ego, no attitude.. just honesty.. A big chunk missing out of the industry if you ask me. If the egos deflated for a minute maybe fledgling artists like myself wouldn't make mistakes and resort to having to learn at home and practice on them selves. The question was about skins versus grapefruit.. I'll answer that.. I practiced on grapefruit.. it takes the ink better and reacts like skin in so far that it "bleeds" and breaks if the power isn't set properly so it's a better way to learn.. the practice skins are only good for throwing at people.. *THWACK* I'm moving onto pig skin when I start practicing colour.. orange isn't a good base colour to tattoo over if you get what I mean? Pigs feet seem to be the way to go.. but it's up to you what your stomach can handle.. I don't even eat meat so I've got a bit of adjusting to do! I agree that you should strengthen your hand by weighing down your pens/pencils and every chance you get balance your machine on your hand and exercise.. even when you're just watching tv. It really helped me. You'll find it's much easier to get started if your hand is used to the weight.. Your linework will be a lot neater and your hand won't get tired. Anyway.. I'm learning from home.. I post all my practice shit on a website and yesterday I got offered two apprenticeships. I can't afford to quit my job and live on my savings so while I am putting money away I will continue to practice at home thanks very much! I don't tattoo people.. I draw every day and practice when ever I get a chance. I'm excited for an apprenticeship.. one day when I can afford it. Unfortunately the reality is I've caught the tattoo bug late in life.. I don't have parents I can crash with while I learn. Everyone's circumstances are different as are their opinions.

I agree with the notion that learning at home strengthens your overall knowledge of the tattoo process. NOBODY walks into any profession without at least a rudimentary background of what they're getting into... sure, an apprenticeship is ideal, but realistically, it's also a luxury... a lot of artists in my area carry themselves as "elitists" and are very VERY apprehensive about sharing skills... the only plausible course of action would be to acquire your own machine and supplies, and at the very least, learn how the fundamentals work, from the power supply to the ink, from the needles to the way you hold the grips... I'm not a tattoo artist yet, but i've worked on my fair share of fruit on a friend's machine, and from that alone, i've learned more than i ever imagined in such a short period of time... having said that, I'm not about to venture out and "butcher" folks, because most of us know better than that... ...so, TAZ, you can take solace in the fact that your egotistical, fuck-off elitist job is safe from people like me (and the artists on this forum looking for advice), who weren't spoon-fed by the industry, and are just passionate about learning the art... ...and just to reiterate, grapefruits are great for inking! ... one of these days I'll give the pigs feet a bash, but 'til then, I'm content with making fruit "hardcore"....

I remember using practice skins during my apprenticeship, except i called them "friends."

**** NOTE TO ALL MODERATORS **** you should seriously replace the word "apprenticeship" with a picture of a clown... only you fucking clowns who are scared of some competition are saying this, and you know what... who gives a fuck if they infect there fucking best mate with a blood borne pathogen.... BECAUSE IT AINT YOU OR YOUR STUDIO, so theres no reason for you to loose out on a little business coz some dude gave his mate HIV ################################################### stop comparing dick sizes, and start to help some of these people out.... FOR FUCKS SAKE ################################################### this is a professional tattoo forum, either answer the fucking question or move on.... no wonder you fucks spend more time arguing about scrachters or whateva the word of the month is. start spedning some time talking about the next show or your actually fucking artwork....

Whoa there chief. the hostility is not necessary. my only point was that there's no substitute for a living, breathing human being.

I concur ... keep the forum informative and, to a degree, civil... there's no need to take a stab at anyone asking for advice... if they NEED advice, i would imagine this forum would be a great place to start... even if some of the members here don't agree, i would imagine CONSTRUCTIVE advice is better than "fuck off and give your buddies a scar and live with it!" kind of advice... I apologize to TAZ for taking a dig at him... only because he probably knows the industry waaaaaay. (and again, waaaaaaaay) better than i do, and i re-acted to that.... there's no place for ego's here, only honest and constructive advice.... i would be stoked if this forum kept it that way.... cheers!

first off use a spare gun or an old gun and use it strictly for practice do not use it on people after wards for fuck sakes. buy white pork at grocery store its cheap and its got pig skin on the back of it.very close to human skin and last long baged in the deep freeze. PS. yeah for fuck sakes tell people the info they need befor they fuck some one up. ebooks and videos are a rip off on the most part and not every one lives in a place with a tattoo shop(ME!!) so theres really no option except to learn and wing it. just take your work fucking work seriuosly and dont be a dirt bag that thinks he dosent need tattoo education. teach yourself to be professional and practice like a mother fucker before you touch skin.LEARN and never stop LEARNING. ALSO for cheap ,well made guns and kits !!tattoo great!! on ebay stores has some suprisingly good quality kits for a very low price i must say i spent 26$ on 2 cast iron guns for practice and they ended up being better than the superior machine i spent 200 bucks for. along with crazy fast shipping, it took 3 weeks for my superior gun to arive from arrizona u.s.a to canada and only 4 days for the 2 cast iron guns to show up from china? how the hell is that possible? i think were getting riped off.

first off use a spare gun or an old gun and use it strictly for practice do not use it on people after wards for fuck sakes. buy white pork at grocery store its cheap and its got pig skin on the back of it.very close to human skin and last long baged in the deep freeze. PS. yeah for fuck sakes tell people the info they need befor they fuck some one up. ebooks and videos are a rip off on the most part and not every one lives in a place with a tattoo shop(ME!!) so theres really no option except to learn and wing it. just take your work fucking work seriuosly and dont be a dirt bag that thinks he dosent need tattoo education. teach yourself to be professional and practice like a mother fucker before you touch skin.LEARN and never stop LEARNING. ALSO for cheap ,well made guns and kits !!tattoo great!! on ebay stores has some suprisingly good quality kits for a very low price i must say i spent 26$ on 2 cast iron guns for practice and they ended up being better than the superior machine i spent 200 bucks for. along with crazy fast shipping, it took 3 weeks for my superior gun to arive from arrizona u.s.a to canada and only 4 days for the 2 cast iron guns to show up from china? how the hell is that possible? i think were getting riped off.

Last I knew guns were used to shoot people and machines were used to tattoo them. Just sayin. Wild notion here, if you don't know what a fool you sound like calling it a "gun" you shouldn't be tattooing.

First of all i would like to state i am a self taught tattooist and like many other people out there have tried to get a apprenticeship ' yeah rite ' i contacted lots of tattooists in my area and none of them were interested in helping a fellow artist ! despite my artwork being very good and the tatoos i had done already being fairly impressive. Practice skins are SHIT !!! waste of cash. I perfected my tattooing skills by first using paper to perfect my line work and shading then watched as many tattooing HOW TO videos ! it worked for me !!! as needles and pencils work very similar if you are a good artist then your half way there to becoming a competent tattooist. So for all you home learners ! practice practice practice ( makes perfect). Professional tattooists i feel are so far up their own arses and ignorant that they dont want to help budding future artists , yet they hype on about the good of the tattoo community , so how about helping these guys out and actually teach them something. No one wants to be self taught but its a case that they have no other choice. I asked several tattooist if i could watch them from time too time to learn ( not an apprenticeship ) they still said fuck off . GOOD LUCK MY FELLOW LEARNERS AND REMEMBER !!!! PAPER PENCIL AND PLENTY OF VIDEO CLIPS AND SOME GOOD FRIENDS WILLING TO LET YOU PRACTICE !!!! GO FOR IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's up? I'm not a professional tattoo artist by any stretch of the imagination so I'll disclaimer that now and you can take that for what it is worth. My wife and I were at a professional artist's tonight though where my wife got a tattoo and we were asking about getting started and she recommended a Honeydew melon, not sure if many people know what that is but that is what she recommended and so, whether or not that is good, others can certainly offer more input and it will be much more pertinent and meaningful coming from them but that is what I was told.

Just so all you "get an appreteship" people know, its not just hard to get 1, its damn near impossible. I live in a small town which does happen to have a tattoo studio but i wouldn't dare let that lot touch me with a needle let alone train me after ive seen the hack jobs that have come outta there. Theres also a tattoo studio in the next biggest town over from me where I got 2 of my tattoos done which are both aweful and need redoing. Its hard to build a relationship with a tattooist when there arent any near you and traveling far enough to decent one is too expensive to keep doing. If i found someone to take me on I even move over there but its not that simple and for the amount of people wanting to join the industry now its even harder than ever to find help. I'd give anything for an appreteship but I just cant find one so to start with being self taught is the only other option I have because to be a tattoo artist is my dream and I'm not letting the fact that i cant find an appreteship stop me from living it.

Once upon a time a lot of people were self taught. Maybe it meant something else then, when tattooing and having work on your body was strictly taboo, but it doesn't change the fact that until relatively recently the world of tattooing was built in part on the hard work of the self-taught. Scepticism is one thing, but making the sweeping assumption that every single person who claims to be self-taught is automatically a scratcher is crap. What of the poor idiot who gets an apprenticeship with someone who does shit work? I think a lot of kids empty the trash cans in a shop for 6 months and walk away with a gold star and a 'gun' in their belt.

I just want to interject that I have been doing an apprenticeship at a VERY respected shop for a year now. I paid $3,000 for the apprenticeship and I just quit because now, shops are taking you on-taking your money-and then using you as free help. Which is complete bullshit. The artists at the studio all admitted that I was a better artist than any of them, and had EXTREMELY tight lines and shading. I also knew how to completely re-assemble a machine that was broken down, and I knew every part of each machine, power supply, autoclave, etc...in that shop. YET EVEN STILL-After a whole effing year-I still hadn't been allowed to even pick up a machine and practice on a G.D fruit even. SO-apprenticeships are fantastic if you find one that isn't just trying to take your money, and take advantage of you. I since left and started on my own and the artists at the shop said my stuff so far is better than any of their stuff was when they started. That's all I want to say.

I'm gonna add my two cents here real quick. I'm not professional artist by any means, although its my goal in life. I started tattooing at 17. I'm now 23. I tattooed on friends with home made machines and Indian ink. Stupid, I know, but at 17 what else were we going to do? A lot of the stuff I did back then I wouldn't show today if someone asked to see my worst work. But even today, I still don't think that my work is great. I'm a very big critic of my own abilities. I can draw, and I'm good in areas that I like, such as lettering, cartoons, and black and white. I used to practice on other people, and yeah I screwed some people up. Scarring and blotchy shading. It was bad. But everybody is going to scar someone at some point, and everyone is going to have inconsistency in their shading at some point. Most people get that out of the way early. Luckily we were kids and didn't care. Since then, I have started practicing on myself. I have everything that a shop has minus the autoclave, and to cope with that I use disposable barrels. Single use, throw them away when you're done. Its nice. I have had real machines for quite a while now and I know how to use them. I can set them up and work away for hours, but I'm still not as good as I want to be. I don't ever think I'll be as good as I want to be. But I'm not going to stop learning. Its hard to learn this profession and learn it well. The ego's in here are a good indication as to why. Artists say get an apprenticeship, mainly because it gets them more money. Some kid pays a couple grand to look over their shoulder, and hey they don't have to do any extra work. Every "real" artist in a shop that I have met has worked out of their house at some point, and I would dare say that most of the ones I know are better then the guys on this forum. But the fact of the matter is, I'm learning at home because I don't have the money to get an apprenticeship. It's not always the best way to go, but it works to get a start. So call me a "scratcher" or "hacker" if you want to, but at least I still have a passion for what I want to do and not just the money that comes with it. As for the practice skin question, its a waste of money. I bought those recently to practice on and they just flat out don't work. They are nothing like real skin. They don't take ink very well. The colors are dull in them. They just flat suck. I've never tried tattooing fruit or pigs, but those may work. Luckily I have enough exposed skin that I can practice on myself. I for one don't think there is anything that compares to tattooing a person other then tattooing a person.

well, i thought i should reply to this topic from a consumers point of view. I'm not a tattoo artist, just an ordinary person who likes to get good tattoos done regularly. one thing that i have noticed is the lack of talent around. Its so sad that the tattoo industry is flooded with talentless people who went into the industry because they dropped out of school and needed a good career that wouldn't frown upon their lack of hygiene, personality and that would pay enough to support their drug and alcohol habits. These artists seem to also have heavy attitude problems and are so arrogant. Im not saying that this is the case everywhere but it is more common then not. I think it is so sad that these people have such an bad attitude towards new and fresh talent, the industry would have a much better reputation if tattoo artists were actual artists to begin with. to be honest, i have seen some amazing stuff come out of people tattooing from home and these guys need to be given a chance as i would definitely go to a talented kitchen tattoo artist with a good portfolio and attitude rather then waste my time and money in a "reputable" tattoo shop run by monkeys! Just my opinion!!

Why bother putting a thread to help new artists with skins if all you do is put them down. All i see here is big egos scared of new talent taking your slice of pie. For god sake give the new people a go!. Why the hell do you think we want to practice on skins or find a good substitute for human skin. All i have seen in these comments are a bunch of pricks with no good advice but QUOTE GET AN APPRENTICESHIP. Some people out there like tattooing for the love of it not just for the dollar signs. I don't intend on tattooing anyone but myself, so don't come back with the standard butcher the skin line. I don't intend on giving myself any infectious diseases either. How about replying to the thread with good information instead of insecure garble. The internet is supposed to be full of good information but all this thread has giving me is a f$%^%ing attitude. Now more than ever i am more determined to give it a go on myself and anyone willing to be a test subject. All you negative so ans so's - go to hell

It seems that the word of the day is apprentice. That's fine if you don't live in Portland, OR. Then the word of the day is school. I know, I know, I should really just be willing to move away to hopefully find a a shop somewhere else to apprentice with - especially with this great economy and job opportunities. I'm sure I can beg for change at an on-ramp during the day and apprentice at night. I'm sure my wife can hook to put me through it too. I'm sure everyone here who has apprenticed would have been willing to do so. I'm sure, from the sounds of it, that most of the people that earned their 'stripes' ate dog shit if it was prescribed to them. Good for you. I have also been noticing that the people who have a general interest in making sure people are doing the right thing are the ones that have a good attitude about it. The guys that are coming from the patronizing gut, well you've done more harm than good. That knuckle head just might do it to "prove you wrong". Think about it: how many of you took "no" for an answer when trying to get an apprenticeship? You've told then that there is "only one way to do it. My way or the highway," which is just as good as saying, "please, please show me you can do it another way." Also, I get the strong feeling that most of you that have this sort of dated view that people should still lick floors clean and whatever-else-have-you's during that apprenticeship are still smarting from the punishment you received. "It was hard for me, so it should be just as hard or harder for you." Ok, sure. That sounds great. But, is that for the love of the art or is that some sort of odd pay back? In the mean time I'll be searching for a Portland shop that would be willing to take me on as an apprentice (which means they'll have to get a license to teach through the state) and isn't out to make the new guy suffer, but is out to make the new guy a damn fine tattoo artist. Oh, here are some links to my airbrush art, in case there is the assumption that I don't even know how to draw: www.tophatpainter.deviantart.com www.coffeemanart.deviantart.com (paintings done with instant coffee) www.myspace.com/tophatpainter

It seems that the word of the day is apprentice. That's fine if you don't live in Portland, OR. Then the word of the day is school. I know, I know, I should really just be willing to move away to hopefully find a a shop somewhere else to apprentice with - especially with this great economy and job opportunities. I'm sure I can beg for change at an on-ramp during the day and apprentice at night. I'm sure my wife can hook to put me through it too. I'm sure everyone here who has apprenticed would have been willing to do so. I'm sure, from the sounds of it, that most of the people that earned their 'stripes' ate dog shit if it was prescribed to them. Good for you. I have also been noticing that the people who have a general interest in making sure people are doing the right thing are the ones that have a good attitude about it. The guys that are coming from the patronizing gut, well you've done more harm than good. That knuckle head just might do it to "prove you wrong". Think about it: how many of you took "no" for an answer when trying to get an apprenticeship? You've told then that there is "only one way to do it. My way or the highway," which is just as good as saying, "please, please show me you can do it another way." Also, I get the strong feeling that most of you that have this sort of dated view that people should still lick floors clean and whatever-else-have-you's during that apprenticeship are still smarting from the punishment you received. "It was hard for me, so it should be just as hard or harder for you." Ok, sure. That sounds great. But, is that for the love of the art or is that some sort of odd pay back? In the mean time I'll be searching for a Portland shop that would be willing to take me on as an apprentice (which means they'll have to get a license to teach through the state) and isn't out to make the new guy suffer, but is out to make the new guy a damn fine tattoo artist. Oh, here are some links to my airbrush art, in case there is the assumption that I don't even know how to draw: www.tophatpainter.deviantart.com www.coffeemanart.deviantart.com (paintings done with instant coffee) www.myspace.com/tophatpainter

It seems that the word of the day is apprentice. That's fine if you don't live in Portland, OR. Then the word of the day is school. I know, I know, I should really just be willing to move away to hopefully find a a shop somewhere else to apprentice with - especially with this great economy and job opportunities. I'm sure I can beg for change at an on-ramp during the day and apprentice at night. I'm sure my wife can hook to put me through it too. I'm sure everyone here who has apprenticed would have been willing to do so. I'm sure, from the sounds of it, that most of the people that earned their 'stripes' ate dog shit if it was prescribed to them. Good for you. I have also been noticing that the people who have a general interest in making sure people are doing the right thing are the ones that have a good attitude about it. The guys that are coming from the patronizing gut, well you've done more harm than good. That knuckle head just might do it to "prove you wrong". Think about it: how many of you took "no" for an answer when trying to get an apprenticeship? You've told then that there is "only one way to do it. My way or the highway," which is just as good as saying, "please, please show me you can do it another way." Also, I get the strong feeling that most of you that have this sort of dated view that people should still lick floors clean and whatever-else-have-you's during that apprenticeship are still smarting from the punishment you received. "It was hard for me, so it should be just as hard or harder for you." Ok, sure. That sounds great. But, is that for the love of the art or is that some sort of odd pay back? In the mean time I'll be searching for a Portland shop that would be willing to take me on as an apprentice (which means they'll have to get a license to teach through the state) and isn't out to make the new guy suffer, but is out to make the new guy a damn fine tattoo artist. Oh, here are some links to my airbrush art, in case there is the assumption that I don't even know how to draw: www.tophatpainter.deviantart.com www.coffeemanart.deviantart.com (paintings done with instant coffee) www.myspace.com/tophatpainter

I came across this thread while googling something, and I have seen many like it. It absolutely amazes me that an industry with almost no standards or guidelines whatsoever can be so pompous. I work in a different industry, hairstyling, which may seem to be a far different type of art form from tattooing. The differences are - I am actually licensed through my state to touch people. I took a state board exam, both practical and written where I had to demonstrate my skill before I was allowed to touch anyone. I had to put in 1500 hours in a school practicing said skills before I was allowed to touch anyone. There is a board who regulates what we are allowed to do, and even officers who check shops and stylists to make sure we are being proper, sanitary and following the law. YET despite the fact that my industry requires us to prove to the government that we are competent to do our jobs, I have yet to meet a hairstylist with the same sort of pompous attitude as MANY of the tattoo artists I have encountered. I am constantly learning from everyone I meet, and am more then happy to share EVERYTHING I know with anyone in the industry or wanting to be. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume that you know everything if everything you learned was from one individual. Even a current apprentice learning from someone in a shop should be ENCOURAGED to go out and learn from others, as much as they can. I have not lost a single client by sharing my knowledge and skills with other hairstylists or wanna be stylists, if you are a good tattoo artist you won't lose any by sharing your information. You are losing clients most likely because of your attitude. Perhaps instead of preaching that everyone should get a terribly unregulated apprenticeship from god knows WHO that has no business being a teacher and most likely knows nothing about education, you should consider maybe just pointing people in the right direction. That person you are pointing in the right direction may end up being a lifetime client of yours, who will refer people to you in the future. However if you were the pompous jerk who told him to f*ck off when he was looking for help you can bet that he will let anyone know who asks him who NOT to go to for a tattoo.

Inked Gal, Hair grows out, tattoos do not. And, by the way, the "industry" itself DOES have standards for tattooing. You are confusing that with the government. The state makes you pass certain regulations to be a hair stylist. Tattooing is an industry that is self-governed because the state(s) don't know jack about tattooing and are mostly involved in the health and safety side of things which, in most states, requires a license. Also, much of the pompous attitudes you encounter are from professional tattoo artists who don't want to aide "scratchers" in hap-hazardly tattooing people and possibly spreading diseases. Unlike tattooing, hair-styling doesn't have the "underground" chomping at the bit to be a hair-stylists by learning on their own or over the internet. Also, the health risks are vastly different. And how many times have you had to fix a haircut that some do-it-your-selfer attempted on themselves, a friend or their child? And while it's their business to do that, don't you wonder why they are attempting the job of a professional? I agree that clients are not lost by sharing information. However, teaching a non professional tattooer even a "tiny" fraction of what needs to be learned is irresponsible and makes the industry look bad..an industry with a long, hard reputation and stigma that "true artists" are dying to get away from...A stigma of being dirty, crude and artistically questionable. The artists of today have moved so far beyond that socially, artistically, technically and safety-wise. Why put the industry into the hands of people whop aren't willing to put the time in to be truly dedicated? I think what you are not seeing is that if a "scratcher" asks one question, they think they have all of tattooing figured out. This is dangerous. And I agree wholeheartedly that many tattooist have NO business teaching and I think that a good portion of those that do teach do it for the money and/or free help. These individuals are unleashing hackers into the industry. In all honesty, the true artist A) wants other artists who have what it takes to truly succeed and B). also realize that for all the people wanting to be tattooed, there just isn't a need for the amount of people who want to tattoo.

TO PROFESSIONAL ARTISTS ONLY: What do you guys think about using cheap needles(box of 50 for like $5) to learn with on practice skin only. I'm not some idiot thinking about using cheap needles like that on human skin, I'm just wanting to get a cheap machine, power supply and some needles to learn with while I try to find a REAL apprenticeship. I work 40+ hours a week to pay bills right now, so I want to find a free apprenticeship that can work around my schedule. I just would like to start learning a few of the basics while I look, and then learn more from a professional. I live close to Sioux City IA. If anybody knows of any shops in the area that might be willing to work with me on this please let me know.

For gods sake why not? What harm are you doing by tattooing a piece of rubber with cheap supplies. If anything It will get your hand used to the weight of the machine. I have used them and found they take outlines well but shading is near impossible. you have to work it alot just to get a very dull shade and teaches bad habits as if you were to treat real flesh in that manner, you would cause way too much trauma to the tat. So in a way its good and in a way they are bad. Great for practicing your lines but teaches horrible habits for shading.

A friend of mine let me use his machine while trying to fill in some flames on my arm. I worked on coloring in a chevy bow-tie with some Skin Candy Red Hot. I did a "fair" job(in my own opinion-it was the first time I ever ran a machine). I didnt go deep enough, so it didn't turn out very good, but its healing good, and I didn't miss anything, and didnt go outside the lines at all. I'm not afraid to color or shade my own tattoos-as long as someone with a lot more experience is supervising. I just want to get some practice on lining. I want to make sure I can do lines perfect before I even try to do any kind of lining on myself. In a couple weeks there is a convention in Sioux city, so I'm going to talk with all the local artists to see what kind of apprenticeship(sort-of) I can get. I can draw, but I do need a lot of help with the details in my work. If anybody knows of any websites that give some good advice on details for art, please let me know. My email is - [email removed]

I just finished practicing on some cheap as practice skin and it totally blows. I'm echoing most of the people here when I say you should get pig skin or something similar. The skin I have dulls my needles, doesn't take ink, stains easily. It's a chore to just run the needle through the damn thing and I've used every setting possible. 10 and higher is the only thing I can use on this damn skin, which is pathetic, knowing that I have to adjust for later use on real people. I'm a hobbyist who wants to learn to tattoo, but military work keeps me from seeking apprenticeships. Once I get out, then yes, I'll get an apprenticeship somewhere and learn the way I feel is right. It's not for everyone. I'm fairly decent at art, know my way around a machine and its various accessories, and I have what a lot of people on here seem to lack, common sense. It's a living, a paying job, and like everything else, a passion. But you have to be willing to share that passion with those who are interested in it. You can't hoard the information like Midas and his gold.

I get sick of the 'pros' saying the only way to learn is through apprenctice. I have been trying to get one for 10 years and they always seem to go to the nephews and friends of the shops. I have a degree now in Visual Communications from the Alberta College of Art and Design, which is a $40,000 piece of paper that says I am a professional artist and I can draw and design the shit out of half the idiots in back alley shops we have around here. I have been slowly learning on my own, tattooing on big and cow hides from the local butcher. Studios always say my artist work is amazing and my lines on practice work is good, but we already have an apprentice, maybe check back next year...So rather than bitchin at us, do you have opening for apprentices?

Guys, pig and cow skin on raw meat works. You can buy a slab or side pork with the skin from most grocery stores. In Canada, superstore has it. Also try the smaller butchers and request unslices. If you pick up one or two a week they will accomodate you. Side pork is like bacon and the price is better than a big ass roast. I tries those synthetic skins years ago and it was pathetic. As a beginner you'll just end up tearing the surface up. And listen to these 'pros', unless you know someone, you will not get an apprenticship without something to show you are serious about tattooing and you have potential. Draw, draw and draw some more, then practice on the side pork and take really good pics.

that fake skin is crappy, I've also heard honeydew melons are good, they give u the effect of blood with the juice and everything.

A.T.P Statement of Goals A.P.T. does not advocate limiting access to tattoo supplies for the tattooist. We encourage suppliers to inform and educate their customers with regard to safe and responsible tattooing. YOU WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND A GOOD TATTOOIST THAT DID NOT START AT HOME.I'VE BEEN AT IT FOR YEARS AND EVERY ARTIST AT MY SHOP HAS STARTED AT HOME. I'M NOT AT ALL AFAID TO GIVE SOME KID A CHANCE OR A LITTLE HELP. I'M SURE ENOUGH OF MYSELF, AND DON'T WORRIE ABOUT THEM TAKEN MY WORK. PRACTIC SKIN IS A GOOD WAY TO GET THE FEEL FOR THE SETUP OF YOUR MACHINE, YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD FEEL FOR YOUR MACHINE BEFORE YOU WORRIE ABOUT HOW REAL THE SKIN FEELS. I GUESS SOME PEOPLE ARE BORN WITH A GIFT OTHERS HAVE TO WORK HARD AND START WHERE EVER THEY CAN. MOMMY AND DADDY DON'T SET US ALL UP

Hahahahahahaha I could spend hours reading this shit. I am not going to waste my time asking any questions, but I will say that there are decent enough tat artists out there who will sit down and show you how its done....for free. There are more than enough raw hides to go around...not to mention that most people who get a tattoo end up getting more than one. As an art form, you should not have to be a shop bitch and run yourself into a financial stupor. If you got the time and money then go for it. I don't have the money, but I worship the tattoo gods...I think that's enough. I study, practice, ask the nice people my questions, and do what I can on my own to be self taught to a degree. Maybe some people should remember that tattoo art is an indiginous talant...I doubt the tribal people were chopping eachothers headsoff because little johnny wanted big johnny to show him how to do a tat. Its a gift to tattoo someone, not a way to make money. If you make money doing it, don't forget its roots. I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it because it is a passion. Let's all turn to the person next to us and give em a hug and a lesson on tattooing for a change eh? Peace, love, and ink folks.

Hahahahahahaha I could spend hours reading this shit. I am not going to waste my time asking any questions, but I will say that there are decent enough tat artists out there who will sit down and show you how its done....for free. There are more than enough raw hides to go around...not to mention that most people who get a tattoo end up getting more than one. As an art form, you should not have to be a shop bitch and run yourself into a financial stupor. If you got the time and money then go for it. I don't have the money, but I worship the tattoo gods...I think that's enough. I study, practice, ask the nice people my questions, and do what I can on my own to be self taught to a degree. Maybe some people should remember that tattoo art is an indiginous talant...I doubt the tribal people were chopping eachothers headsoff because little johnny wanted big johnny to show him how to do a tat. Its a gift to tattoo someone, not a way to make money. If you make money doing it, don't forget its roots. I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it because it is a passion. Let's all turn to the person next to us and give em a hug and a lesson on tattooing for a change eh? Peace, love, and ink folks.

in all aspects getting an apprenticeship is the best way to go. its probably the best way and quickest way to learn techniques without picking up bad habits. some "self-taught" artists are pretty good but they have also told me that it took them many years to get there and that they regret the first few of practicing on the poor souls when they got started. there are many veiws on the subject, but i stand behind the apprenticeship path. any yahoo can pick up a machine and go ape-shit. its just gonna take a seasoned artist to fix up your fuck up. and here in the states the tattoo laws are getting more strict every year and any professional artist would tell you it is because of the wanna be self taught hacks turning unsuspecting clients into hamburger meat. and most of the time it is true. there is much more too learn than the sterilization procedures and how to fix your machine. working on skin opens a huge can of worms that "yes" you can learn on your own , it will bring regret later down the road, or you can apprentice under a reputable mentor , someone who can tell you its better this way or dont do that thats the wrong way. it will save you time and save clients skin.

in all aspects getting an apprenticeship is the best way to go. its probably the best way and quickest way to learn techniques without picking up bad habits. some "self-taught" artists are pretty good but they have also told me that it took them many years to get there and that they regret the first few of practicing on the poor souls when they got started. there are many veiws on the subject, but i stand behind the apprenticeship path. any yahoo can pick up a machine and go ape-shit. its just gonna take a seasoned artist to fix up your fuck up. and here in the states the tattoo laws are getting more strict every year and any professional artist would tell you it is because of the wanna be self taught hacks turning unsuspecting clients into hamburger meat. and most of the time it is true. there is much more too learn than the sterilization procedures and how to fix your machine. working on skin opens a huge can of worms that "yes" you can learn on your own , it will bring regret later down the road, or you can apprentice under a reputable mentor , someone who can tell you its better this way or dont do that thats the wrong way. it will save you time and save clients skin.

If you do find an apprentaship make sure the guy can TEACH! theres to many assholes that will just take your money and make you clean for two years. Thats what happened to me. I didnt learn shit. Now im 2k in the hole for the apprentaship and another 2k in tools and such. Every tattoo artist that ive have worked with is either a drunk or a bipolar scumbag. in most cases both. However there are things you wont be able to learn while teaching yourself. Like cleaning PROPERLY. Disposing of your needles,cleaning your tubes. Being in a shop will teach you how to deal with customers in a professinal way........But thats just me Im sure you will find some ahole that will disagree.

A MESSAGE FOR EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T BELEIVE SELF TAUGHT IS POSSIBLE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! some people are just not happy that there are other people out there whom are more than capable of doin any such hobby and having some enjoyment about it. ok since its bacame a big craze it seems every tom dik and harry has a cheap chinese kit and are making a mess. but since this iv seen alot of good cover ups and skill taken to do such cover ups. and of which iv seen, every one of them has been transformed by someone who is self taught. and me personally, i hold my hands up to us all because we prove u wrong. it can be done with alot of practice and persiveerance. are you all really trying to be the last generation of tattoo artist. everyone starts off somewere and without people to stand along side to give a bit of guidance where necesary, then u are taking it upon yourselves to allow sed people to desease there mates and others. i say step aside and let us show you whos capable. people only want information maybe even a mentor im only 18 and im self taught theres no tattoo parlors were i stay ur only gonna put people off the idea and what u love ur meant to pass on priorities all wrong MCELMET

Ok. ive seen that many off these 'artists' seem to be very, how do i say, scared. i will lend you a helping hand. go to your local craft store and find some foam sheets. before you buy any old foam sheets make sure that they are thick double sided sheets(not sticky on one side), as they will offer you more practicing space. feel them before you buy them. they should feel somewhat rubbery and kind of like moist skin in a sense. get the skin tone if you can otherwise white will work. these foam sheets are strictly for practicing your line work, as they do not allow for even gradation of tones when using your magnums to do shading. another thing. when doing shading always use a magnum. a flat shader has no place in tattooing and manufacturers should really stop making them available. the flat shader acts as a razorblade if the machine is turned too far sideways, and can cause some really bad scars. as far as shadework and color goes, the only real good way to do it is to by pig hides from a butcher or processing plant. the city i live in has four meat processing plants which makes it extremely easy to get ahold of them. you may not be soo lucky. the practice skins are like trying to tattoo rubber and i wouldnt recommend them for anything other than coasters or maybe for opening really tough jar lids. now, i will go into the tubes, needles and machines side of things. for one, always always always use a fresh needle. it does not matter if it is just practice or not. USE FRESH NEEDLES AND TUBES EVERY TIME! your practice is your time of applying what youve learned from videos and books and you must treat your practice canvas just like it is a client that has come to you for some ink. use machine covers, clip cord covers, nitrile gloves, germicidal squeeze bottles and good lint free paper towel such as bounty shop towel (blue stuff). get a sharps container and use it EVERY TIME. dont use cheap chinese equipment. if you want to learn then you need to learn using the equipment that you will use when you become the artist that you are looking to be. spend some money on equipment that will last. i personally found a site that is EXTREMELY inexpensive and has very very good equipment. it is www.monstersteel.com. try them out. you wont be disappointed. for any 'professional' here that thinks their apprenticeship is the best thing since sliced bread, email me pics of your work and we can compare. i tattoo at home, yet all of the 12 shops in my city know me by name and offer me work, which i repectfully decline because i would rather take their money and give the customers that i take from them better quality work at a better price. i am self taught. yes i regret not knowing WHAT to practice on at first but i have found things that work well and i am not going to let people that want to learn and have questions go about picking up bad habits. for any newbs that read this, if you have questions you can email me at any time with questions and i will try to get back to you as soon as possible. [email removed] hope to hear from you all soon

Ok. ive seen that many off these 'artists' seem to be very, how do i say, scared. i will lend you a helping hand. go to your local craft store and find some foam sheets. before you buy any old foam sheets make sure that they are thick double sided sheets(not sticky on one side), as they will offer you more practicing space. feel them before you buy them. they should feel somewhat rubbery and kind of like moist skin in a sense. get the skin tone if you can otherwise white will work. these foam sheets are strictly for practicing your line work, as they do not allow for even gradation of tones when using your magnums to do shading. another thing. when doing shading always use a magnum. a flat shader has no place in tattooing and manufacturers should really stop making them available. the flat shader acts as a razorblade if the machine is turned too far sideways, and can cause some really bad scars. as far as shadework and color goes, the only real good way to do it is to by pig hides from a butcher or processing plant. the city i live in has four meat processing plants which makes it extremely easy to get ahold of them. you may not be soo lucky. the practice skins are like trying to tattoo rubber and i wouldnt recommend them for anything other than coasters or maybe for opening really tough jar lids. now, i will go into the tubes, needles and machines side of things. for one, always always always use a fresh needle. it does not matter if it is just practice or not. USE FRESH NEEDLES AND TUBES EVERY TIME! your practice is your time of applying what youve learned from videos and books and you must treat your practice canvas just like it is a client that has come to you for some ink. use machine covers, clip cord covers, nitrile gloves, germicidal squeeze bottles and good lint free paper towel such as bounty shop towel (blue stuff). get a sharps container and use it EVERY TIME. dont use cheap chinese equipment. if you want to learn then you need to learn using the equipment that you will use when you become the artist that you are looking to be. spend some money on equipment that will last. i personally found a site that is EXTREMELY inexpensive and has very very good equipment. it is www.monstersteel.com. try them out. you wont be disappointed. for any 'professional' here that thinks their apprenticeship is the best thing since sliced bread, email me pics of your work and we can compare. i tattoo at home, yet all of the 12 shops in my city know me by name and offer me work, which i repectfully decline because i would rather take their money and give the customers that i take from them better quality work at a better price. i am self taught. yes i regret not knowing WHAT to practice on at first but i have found things that work well and i am not going to let people that want to learn and have questions go about picking up bad habits. for any newbs that read this, if you have questions you can email me at any time with questions and i will try to get back to you as soon as possible. [email removed] hope to hear from you all soon

hey all i have been intrested in tattoo from a young age i loved them and could not help but stare in amazement at other people tattoos. I loved looking at them and was fasinated at how they was done but never realy wanted to do it a job. well i have wached a hell of a lot of tattoos being done from about the age of 14, knew that on my 18th i would get a tattoo and knew what i wanted. i started to talk to the local tattooist and waching evrey thing he did and made a some what frendship. at 18 i went and got inked im now 19 nearly 20 and have 13 tattoos. e.g. full chest peace, the frount of my neck, coller bone and other places to. I decided when i had not long since turnd 19 that i would like to have a try at tattooing. im not saying im good becoz im not totaly amazing but im not half bad now. i have never gone in to deep and im very clean. i wash my hands evrey time i take my gloves off. change the needil, tip, grip, back stem and machine when i leave the needil standing for more than 10mins with me there with it if i leave the room i change it all and set a new cap of ink. im still learning from home. i admit half of my work is not passabul but i have got a hell of a lot better since i started and i have never had a complant or my work coverd over. i have asked countless tattoo studios for an aprentiship even traveld up to 15miles around my ariea for one but still nothing, dont get me wroung i still follow up and check any who just thort id say not all people who teach them self are bad but we home schooled guys may never be quite shop qulity till we get are foot in the door.

hey all i have been intrested in tattoo from a young age i loved them and could not help but stare in amazement at other people tattoos. I loved looking at them and was fasinated at how they was done but never realy wanted to do it a job. well i have wached a hell of a lot of tattoos being done from about the age of 14, knew that on my 18th i would get a tattoo and knew what i wanted. i started to talk to the local tattooist and waching evrey thing he did and made a some what frendship. at 18 i went and got inked im now 19 nearly 20 and have 13 tattoos. e.g. full chest peace, the frount of my neck, coller bone and other places to. I decided when i had not long since turnd 19 that i would like to have a try at tattooing. im not saying im good becoz im not totaly amazing but im not half bad now. i have never gone in to deep and im very clean. i wash my hands evrey time i take my gloves off. change the needil, tip, grip, back stem and machine when i leave the needil standing for more than 10mins with me there with it if i leave the room i change it all and set a new cap of ink. im still learning from home. i admit half of my work is not passabul but i have got a hell of a lot better since i started and i have never had a complant or my work coverd over. i have asked countless tattoo studios for an aprentiship even traveld up to 15miles around my ariea for one but still nothing, dont get me wroung i still follow up and check any who just thort id say not all people who teach them self are bad but we home schooled guys may never be quite shop qulity till we get are foot in the door.

I am a graduated apprentice and almost tattoo artist. This site is not helpful for shit. It seems to be a bunch of egotistical artists without any helpful information. Thanks for nothing dicks. All I want to know if real skin is going to be better than this fake skin. I start next week. I do not expect a helpful reply but here goes. Someone prove me wrong. Even as an apprentice most artists are to stuck up to help.

I am a graduated apprentice and almost tattoo artist. This site is not helpful for shit. It seems to be a bunch of egotistical artists without any helpful information. Thanks for nothing dicks. All I want to know if real skin is going to be better than this fake skin. I start next week. I do not expect a helpful reply but here goes. Someone prove me wrong. Even as an apprentice most artists are to stuck up to help.

Can anyone tell me how much practice skin is actually like real skin? I do product development for a company that will be make dermal abrasion pads and need a skin stand in to test on. Is this stuff like skin or is it just meant to accept ink

Can anyone tell me how much practice skin is actually like real skin? I do product development for a company that will be make dermal abrasion pads and need a skin stand in to test on. Is this stuff like skin or is it just meant to accept ink