tattooing at walmart. wtf?

ok ok, i just found out that OMI JAMES, Chris Nuniez FROM MIAMI INK SOLD 4,000,000,000 tshirts to walmart. every shirt says "tattooing worldwide since 1992" imagine how main stream tattooing is going to become in the next few years. omi and chris are making millions of these tshirts alone.. shirts.. ---> http://myspace-422.vo.llnwd.net/00721/22/47/721017422_l.jpg www.devilleusa.com

clothing featuring tattoos or tattoo styles has been becoming very big in the last year or two. many designers are making jeans and stuff with "tattoo" designs on them, like those odd pants and jackets with patches of label brands or sports teams, but tattoo designs instead. i still think it's a far way till they are widely out there and on everything.

The only problem I have with this is that Walmart is involved...I'm sure the Miami Ink guys have nothing to do with the marketing but I may be wrong ....I have an intense dislike for Walmart and they way they do business and, as such, would never purchase any product from them...that company has some very shady business practices....TAz

Gossip, just wondering what the problem is? Is it that you don't agree with Wal Mart as a company or is it that Wal Mart isn't hip enough to sell something your into? Seems a little shallow if it's the latter.

Shallow? Don't trhink so ...Just won't deal with a firm known for buying products manufactured in third world countries by workers earning starvation wages then selling said products so cheap and at such volumes that ethical businesses are hard put to stay in business....also Walmart is famous for treating their employees shabbily...this is not a geo political forum on unethical economic practices however if you would like to educate yourself you can do so by researching Walmart and its business pracitces here on the internet...if YOU don't know whats going on I certainly am not going to educate you...TAz

sounds like one hell of a come up ...............good for him ...........hes from isreal you know........eh?

Whos going to be buying these shirts?____ I remember reading something a while back about walmart not selling a cd because the title was called American Idoit.A cd by the group Green Day.Walmart does offers alot of $5.00/hr. jobs but I think its bad for this country??.Wal-mart has messed up the economy pretty bad.----Boycott,I have for the last 2 yrs.-----My bad,back to tatttoos.

Taz, sorry to burst your bubble, but almost everything in the U.S. is made in another country being made by kids who work for pennies an hour. Anything that says "Made in China" or anywhere overseas, you can almost always bet that the people making it aren't making shit money wise

But the small businesses can't compete.

But the small businesses can't compete.

TAz, Okay..................Ahem...................Deep Breath.....................Now,,,,,,,,,I'm only even going to dare go here because you told bakersendz and myself that you would "debate with us any ol' time". God forgive me for even suggesting this, and as always, it's just an observation, because I want to see all sides. What we in our "Save the world" belief system perceive to be forced child labor may translate into "opportunity" on another shore. What really are the alternatives for these kids? Prostitution, or............prostitution, or.............? Still for pennies on the dollar, but probably without much hope of a future, because they'll be dead from any possible number of things. Now, I am not trying to defend our American work ethic of always trying to save a buck, and I'm certainly not defending Walmart. But people in this country have the choice to either take the job, or to not take the job. And when there is nowhere else to work, then what do you do? When I was a truck driver, I didn't really get paid nearly enough to justify all the risk involved with doing the job. I did that shit for 17 years, and not because I loved it, and not because it was really that lucrative a career. I did it because I needed a job, and that was as much my choice as anyone who works at Walmart. Any trucker that tells you he makes $80,000 a year is a little disoriented. It's more like they made $40,000 twice, because they put in at least 80 hours a week. Depending on where you live, that might not seem so bad. All I'm saying here is that you may be singling out Walmart without doing background checks on the work ethics of any of the other business's you regularily frequent. You might be shocked at what you would find. Please don't beat my ass too badly on this one. TCE

Ducky ...what could possibly make you think that YOU could bust MY bubble.?...are you in someway implying that I am not aware of the situation? Allow me to burst YOUR bubble....I am fully aware of the sad fact that many products are manufactured in third world countries under near slave labor conditions....when I purchase ANYTHING i do put forth an effort to ascertain not only where it was made but also under what conditions and I try to research the companies that make the product and distribute the product. Of course I realize that a person can only take this so far,but I do put forth the effort and try very hard to abstain from buying products from companies who exploit the poor ( especially kids).and/or exploit their employees...I am not a fanatic but I DO read those"made in China" stickers and put the item right back on the shelf. I am a tattoo artist Ducky however I am not an uneducated Tattoo artist I am fully cognizant that our nation has an abundance of stores that fill their shelves with imported products...but none of us are forced to buy those products. So, Ducky ...thanks for trying to "enlighten" me but my bubble was burst before you were even born!!...TAz

AND TIM>>>NOW FOR TIM..... You have some valid points and since you aren't trying to " burst my bubble" as someone said... I will not justify slave labor for any reason...won't do it...yeah those kids may die if they didn't make those pennies but what is to stop companies like Walmart from doing he right thing and paying them a few more cents, or dollars?...Do you have any idea how much Walmart profits in just one single minute?....Pure profit in every 60 seconds of every minute of every hour of every day??It is ASTRONOMICAL!!!This company could multiply what those poor people are paid by ten and it would not even put a dent in their profit margins...And I am not singling out Wally world ...there are THOUSANDS of companies that do it...Walmart was simply an example... No people are not FORCED to work at companies like Walmart ...that does not justify their underhanded way of treating their employees...we are not FORCED to shop there...and I have not spent a cent in Walmart in over 3 years...I don't just talk the talk...I walk the walk pal!! OK I'm done have a nice day!...T

One more thing that pisses me off about walmart and I'll shut up...and this is no big moral issue.. A while back I was given the gift of an "Uncle Cracker" cd purchased at walmart...due to walmarts holier than thou censorship even such innocent words as "beer" and "wine" were bleeped out...At the same time I recieved a dvd movie also from wallyworld....don't remember what it was but, no matter...it contained some of the worst language and explicit sex scenes I had ever seen in an "R" rated movie..not to mention extremely graphic violence....now will someone explain the difference between the two?....Makes absolutely NO sense then and even less now...TAZ

What Duck ol girl?...come on I wanna argue!!

Taz, good to see you are feeling "peckish" tonight. Hope that means your energy level is up!

There is no justification for the immoral tactics used by corporate America. But, and there is no really PC way to say this, a good percentage of the people who shop at Walmart are somewhat underprivileged themselves, and most of them don't want to have to spend one cent more for an item than they absolutely have to. And an identical item sold at Walmart or Target is still made in the same place. Hell, American cars aren't even made in America! Personally, the hassle of even going into the store isn't worth the money saved. TAz, you've lived in California, and no doubt you've seen the people working in the fields picking the very produce that ends up in most grocery stores. They're not making shit either, but apparently it's more than they can scrape together down south, and so they risk life and limb to get here and acquire those positions. Until there are some repercussions for the employers who are caught hiring illegals, or those who exploit the work force, nothing will change. We cannot realistically begin to address the problems abroad until we solve the problems in our own country. TCE

lol, i hadn't read it yet :P I'll argue if you insist...but i don't know what to argue about. I was simply using the "burst your bubble" as an expression to say, most things here are from elsewhere, and most things elsewhere are made by kids. I hate that, but i can't controle the way those people live their lives, and i don't have the money to buy them what they need. I'm not justifying or agreeing with kids working in slave labor conditions or anything like that, it makes me upset that it happens. When i was little i found out that most barbie doll clothes (the really pretty dresses) are hand made by kids in china or somethin like that, and they get paid shit for it. Even as a kid it made me want to stop getting the barie dolls in the pretty dresses, so i wouldn't ask for them anymore. I personally shop at Target, don't know if that's any better. I don't put something down because it's made out of the country, or i'd be living in a box somewhere for lack of the patience to find things that aren't "slave labor" items, and i commend you for being able to do so. -Ducky (Man, i seem to be sayin all the wrong things lately, don't i x.X)

Also, just another note...you may want to look into how the payment process goes. From what i understand of it, a company in china (for example) hires 50 kids to make barbie doll clothes, playing them 1 penny every 5 dresses that they hand-make. said company then contacts the barie company in the U.S. and sells the barbie company the dresses at 1.50 a dress. The barbie company then contacts all of the companies it sells to, K.B. Toys, Walmart, Target, Toys R Us, etc. and sells the dresses to those stores, at 5 dollars a dress. Those companies then raise the price to 10-15 dollars a dress to their companies. SO, who is to blame, the companies that sell the items to us? The companies that buy from china? the companies in china that put the kids in that situation? all of them? or do i have the process wrong to beign with

And I am familiar with the international marketing structure...Who is to blame?...The people who keep shopping at the walmarts of the world.....all people would have to do is refuse to buy that stuff and guess what?..wouldn't be too awful long before wallyworld would be forced to change things....

but can wollyworld change how the other companies get their products? If it was cut down that much, thousands of americans would be left on the streets. SO many things are mas produced for pennies, that if they were cut out, it would make a demand for products so high, and a supply so low, that prices would SKY ROCKET. Toys for your kids would cost 100s of dollars a pop, clothing would be up in the thousands, becuase all the stuff we got from overseas would not be available anymore....

Just to defend myself here a little Taz, first off nowhere in my entry did I state my personal view about WM. I was simply trying to make a point that if the opinion was that WM is too lame to sell anything tattoo related then to me that is a trivial thing to complain about. WM is unfortunate evil in the land just like most “big business” I know a few people (myself included) who would rather be treated “shabbily” by a company then not have a job. Not everyone has the option to only work for a company that isn’t unscrupulous in some way. WM may not offer insurance and a bunch of perks but they do help people pay the bills. I would work for pretty much anyone to feed my kid.

Can you say import tax? We should put the American worker on the same playing-field as third world sweatshops. Its funny how all the tough guy buy American people now make excuses for an administration that doesnt protect the American worker first.

Ducky and Molly, there is little us peons can do (though I do my best to buy local even because that is better for our economy), but the system of government we have in place is supposed to strengthen the american population, not keep us broke and buying cheap shit made dirt cheap overseas immoral sweatshops so CEO's and Stockholders can get rich. You can shrug if you want, but when the system is this broke, the rest of the world is gonna fight back and we have to understand why.

Ducky and Molly, there is little us peons can do (though I do my best to buy local even because that is better for our economy), but the system of government we have in place is supposed to strengthen the american population, not keep us broke and buying cheap shit made dirt cheap overseas immoral sweatshops so CEO's and Stockholders can get rich. You can shrug if you want, but when the system is this broke, the rest of the world is gonna fight back and we have to understand why.

The protective tariffs are usually bundled with a sedition act in congress, or at least the last two were. It's mostly been associated with a symptom of xenophobia. We still have tariffs like that, only we ease them up on countries we're doing business with. The last time that they were harsh enough to isolate American business was during the build up to WWII. The fact of the matter is, you can't undo globalization, you'd have to blow up the internet and that's impossible. Nor am I, or poor joe college student going to spend 5 bucks on something in a store when we can get it for a buck at Walmart (and I fucking hate walmart, I hate all things about it, I hate the people...I hate working there..I did at one point, I hate the stupid shit they sell...). There are alot of things driving the international price of things, oil, and also oil, and sometimes oil I've heard, also you might not want to quote me on this, but I think oil might be involved. It's easy to talk about buying things elsewhere when you have alot of money, but when you're in the bracket I'm in (and I'm fairly lucky even though I have no assests) and poorer than me, there is no choice. You can't decide not to feed your family because you don't like globalization and child slavery. Walmart is a beast of many faces, and it's reason for being the way it is is the product of many different things, all of them as horrific as the next on the list. Ten thousand people could each give a contributing factor to the rise of child slavery etc. and every single one of them would be right. That's what discouraged me. It's no longer simple Econ 101, cause and effect, supply and demand, it's shades and shades of demand, and as equally faceted means of supply. It makes it very difficult to change anything. ahyln

Just checkin something...ignore me!

Ok D..the fights on!LOL!!!! NOONE is forced to shop at walmart...and you CAN shop elsewhere just as efficiently ...that "gotta buy walmart cause its cheaper and I'm poor" is simply a lame excuse for being a sheep in the herd!!...Does not hold water!

In my experience I've never come across a cheaper price on things, only specialized services like hair cutting etc, and that's because I wanted the quality to be better. Personally I buy from local shops AND from Walmart. Also, don't ever call me a sheep, that makes me extremely angry. My mother is a social worker, and as a part of her training she had to make a shopping plan for a family of three to live off of their welfare money for a week. They had to wash their hair, clothes, dishes etc. all with the same soap, eat ramen every day, and get almost everything they could think of second and third hand in order to pay for their utilities and a roof over their head. They could never get the money to last for a whole month, no matter how tightly they planned. Now this is in New Jersey, where the cost of living is exponentially higher than the Midwest, but what I took from that story is that for some people, every penny counts. I've been in that situation for a week or so, but this is the life for alot of people. Every penny counts. If you can get ramen for 8 cents at walmart instead of 10 at the local grocery store (oh yes, I have price shopped ramen) you'll do it. That is not an excuse, that's life, and you'll have a hell of time trying to tell me otherwise. Just like you'll have a hard time telling me that prostitution, petty theft, and other likeminded crimes aren't associated with the socio-economic situation that these people are forced (yes, forced) into.

HEY!...In the FIRST place I didn't call you a sheep... In the second place TOUGH SHIT!

Import taxes dont (necessarily) isolate us from the rest of the world, they stop giving corporations incentive to profit off unfair labor. We have worked real hard to make sure our labor force is (relatively) ethical (no kids, reasonable hours, fair pay). Corporations and the government are saying tough shit, you dont want american kids working 16 hour days, we will go elsewhere. If the American government wanted to protect the middle and lower class they would curb the incentives that ship our jobs overseas. You see, if Americans had great jobs making all these great things we consume, then we would actually have the money to pay a fair price for goods manufactured in an ethical manner. the shareholders and CEO's wouldnt be banking so much, though. Poor millionaires, better protect them. Without disclosing too much personal information, I am not in a very high tax bracket. I started with nothing, and though it may seem like Im banking from this site and the studio, its not here yet (I eagerly await the day!). The tattoo artist I hired on was making more money than I do 8 weeks after our studio opened in winter. In the long run keeping my money local is good for me, it sticks around here and will come back to me. Walmart beats the fuck out of small local businesses and sends their money to kentuky(I believe), so I cant justify supporting them with my dough even if it hurts to pay more...

Not to cast myself the victim, but I should have known better than to open my fat mouth about something so hyper opinonated and sensitive (it never works on the internet and it barely works face to face). So from now on I'll just limit myself to my crafty post and all people can live in peace and harmony... with colored pencils.

lol, i don't shop walmart!!! i've stated that already :P Just remember, walmart is not the only place that does that...so does Target and almost any other company. Also, why are we so worried about things that go on in other countries what we have so much shit going on over here? Maybe we should step back and jsut worry about what is going on here instead of spending so much time worrying about how much people overseas are going to get paid??? (hehehe, i love to get people riled up n.n just remember, i never said if i think of it this way or not...i just like playing devils advocate...you may NEVER KNOW!!!!!!!)

More importantly ... WE MAY NEVER CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I don't comment much but I know first hand about WM. I worked there over a Christmas Season. You wouldn't be surprised to find that approx. 90% of the boxes in back stock are labeled; "Made in China", "Made in Tiawan","Made in Indonesia", Made in Mexico" and the list goes on. Yes the do treat there workers like shit...I know! And the worst part.........they turn towns like mine into ghost towns. What I mean by that is my town (Rice Lake, WI. Pop 8200) is what is called a Main Street Community. In other words we value our own main street businesses...you know the ones that have been here for 50-100 years and handed down family to family. Well we had a typical WM and about two years ago they moved and built a SUPER WM on the south end of town. Since then one family owned grocery store is going out of business. We have had at least 10 main street businesses close in our town and a couple more around the county that relied on customers from my town. WM built another SWM less than 60 miles from here and now are going to build ANOTHER ONE less than 30 miles away...three SWM's within a sixty mile radius???? WTF!!!! Well had to share....I for one am trying to get my wife to shop at our local shops but have been a victim of the WM fever because I can't find what I need at the local businesses...I have tried! I have even asked them to order stuff for me so I wouldn't have to go to WM..Sorry Taz...I will try harder...don't beat me... Mike

Taz your "humanitarian" front is pretty see-through. You're not morally superior because you don't buy things made in china. You're just economically better off. Typical middle-class bullshit. How can you pretend to care about poor people in in third world countries while you blatantly show your disdain for poor people in this country? There is a HUGE number of people who shop at wal mart because THEY CAN"T AFFORD TO DO OTHERWISE. It's fucking true. Ahlyn's example of comparing prices of ramen is a perfect example of what lots of working class people in this country are forced to do so don't give me that sheep crap. You probably refuse to shop at walmart because you can't stand to be around the poor people who shop and work there.

I don't pretend to be morally superior to ANYONE! And I take my food stamps and welfare check to the mom and pop store down the street and try to be a smart shopper!! What a fucking moron! Nobody is forced to shop anywhere..and a smart shopper can shop just as efectively at many places other than walmart...I'm sure theres a good store near your trailer park.

BY the way ...my mom AND sister both work at walmart dumbass

Im not Taz but I am "humanitarian". To think Taz and I dont shop at Walmart because we're loaded (I cant speak for Taz but Im not) and dont like hanging with the poor folk who shop there while feeling superior is absurd. That said, we are making a decision based on what I think is positive morals, at the least its better economically in the long run for me to keep my $$$ in the community. I certainly cant afford to do it as much as I'd like (Im sure we get our clothes from target and I know they are made in indo-wherever(I once counted over 20 different countries producing clothes for target!!))), but that doesn't mean that I wont readily acknowledge that the system is stacked against the poor and I wont defend the practice one bit. I do accept and feel the moral responsibility of supporting a system that is so vile (its why I get so pissed, Im forced to be part of an immoral system!). Politically (its not a dirty word) I make decisions based on what is good economically for the poor and middle and Walmart has proven time and time again that their business practices are really good for 3 groups of people: The CEO's/ corporate officers, the shareholders, and the politicians they pay. While Walmart receives a tremendous profit off the poor, you sure wouldnt know it from the way they conduct business/politics. Other stores may practice the same policies and tactics but Walmart is #1 and therefore the #1 bad guy. Listening to corporate cheerleading is tiresome. Do you people really believe that Walmart is good for the poor based solely on price point? Do you think there might be other factors and forces at work here that may outweigh the benefits of cheap products? I have no disdain for poor people, and I sincerely doubt taz does either. I grew up on government assistance with a single parent(in white suburbs though so Im not crying at all I had it made compared to most) and have more in common with the folks who shop at Walmart than the high powered business folk I run with sometimes. Its obviously not the poors problem they need to shop at the cheapest place. BUT hopefully the poor are educating themselves and figuring out what they can about the system that is stacked against them and work hard to get their fair share. I certainly have the right to dislike the act of encouraging or excusing a morally corrupt economic system. In short, I dont blame the poor for being poor and shopping at walmart, I CAN blame them for shopping at Walmart and not realizing that they are indeed supporting a system that is hurting them and fight against it instead of embracing it. Well, I guess to some degree I could blame the government for not educating the public so they are smarter and can see through the marketing and talking points, but I dont encourage dodging responsibility, the population should be banding together and fighting for their jobs back. Ducky, I'll take the bait you put out the other day because it doesnt make sense. Of course we are focusing on what is happening at home. Our manufacturing jobs went OVER THERE for the benefit of a FEW people here. For christs sake, its like they have you believing that if we made things in America you couldnt afford them. We're used to be pretty smart here in America, we should be able to handle employing our own people, and paying them well enough to afford the quality products we make that last longer and produce less waste. It sounds like they have you convinced that their cheap shitty clothes/goods that you need to re-buy in two years is actually better for you economically than keeping an American adult employed to make a quality product that lasts 2-5 times longer. Lastly, sometimes I like to take morality out of an issue Im thinking about. When I do that in this case, I think of a funny joke I made up when yet another set of pants ripped like two- three months after getting em . "The problem isnt really that 10 year olds are making our clothes, the problem is that 10 years olds make shitty clothes."

i went into a "ma and pa" store today, and a top that would cost me 15 bucks at target was....wait for this...$40 dollars. I went into a ma and pa toy store...a stuffed animal that i could get for 10 bucks at Toys R Us...20.95. Making 9 bucks an hour, i can't afford stuff that isn't mass produced...and most of america is in the same shoes as i am. I don't support slave labor or anything like that, and if you can point me to some stores that carrying stuff that isn't "slave labor" stuff for "slave labor" prices, please, do so! But, just as the guy who lived in a town that now will have the 3 SWM, when you are strapped for cash all the time, you gotta go where it's affordable.

TAz, Why do your mom and sister continue to work at WM? I'm sure they know your position on this matter. What would happen if WM decided tomorrow that they were going to close 50% of their stores nationwide? I'm not speculating, I'm interested to know if you think that this would be a positive, or a negative for the folks who are currently employed by WM? I would like to hear the positive side of it, because while I'm too blind to see what it may be, you've got some great insight, and could possibly provide some sort of hope for the future generations of the workforce in this country to break away from this monopoly. Session #4 today....................Still staying away from the reds and yellows.............I'll send pics. TCE

You know, WM is seen in most circles as the big evil in retail. And on paper, it -does- sound like a great place to work. The amount of cheerleading and propaganda alone that you have to deal with is staggering. The problem is, that on an employee level, there are a handful of stores that follow the "culture" that is written and hyped up. In a perfect world, all of them would have this kind of working environment. But... they dont. I'd say about 95% of my local store is disgruntled to some extent. People bitch about how most WM workers can't afford their health insurance, that they are forced into going to the state for it. What they DONT tell you is that we have representatives from those health plans sitting around the store with little information tables. Me, I was supposed to be working full time hours, get benefits after 90 days. Nope, not only after I was hired did they realize they made a snafu with my payrate (about a buck less an hour.), but they have kept me scheduled at -max- 32 hours and rarely. No full time status, no benefits, no sick days, nothing. There is a loophole for everything. And don't get me started about what happened the day I got hurt at work. If they treat the people that WORK for them this way and worse, I can only imagine what else they are doing out there. -shrug-

what?! you guys mean you don't drive a classic sports car collection that contains 5 muscle cars from the 60's? or sit next to that hot blonde from channel 2? *kidding* by the way, my post was aimed at Taz, who' response to Ahlyn's pretty insigtful post about poor folks' plight was "TOUGH SHIT". Not Gabe. And Gabe, who I will be glad to respectfully disagree with, I have to say that the point of moving jobs overs seas was not to benefit the"few" workers there, but to benefit the very few corporation owners HERE. I wish the people who worked in factories in the third world got paid comparable wages workers here. all it takes is a good union. it would make WM think twice about shipping jobs overseas, wouldn't it? that's the extent to which i will talk politics on the internet. to Taz again (i've gotten on your bad side a couple of times here, huh? sorry.) I sometimes get heated, but I am not a "moron" or a "dumbass". If you think I'm wrong, which I might be, that's all you gotta say.

Which I did...And you were WAY off base about what I said"tough shit" to Ahlyn about...D and I have some great moments here and I enjoy every one of them...my "tough shit" was a crude reply to her whining " oh don't call me a sheep" thing...we kinda have a special relationship goin an Ahlyn (D) and I and I think I speak for us both when I say that ...WE CAN DO DAT!...OK?...OK!...TAz

I wasn't trying to come to her defense. I was just responding as an (admitted) outsider who really was feeling what she said. I took the "tough shit" to heart, and responded kind of emotionally. A couple of beers will do that... happy posting!

"And Gabe, who I will be glad to respectfully disagree with, I have to say that the point of moving jobs overs seas was not to benefit the"few" workers there, but to benefit the very few corporation owners HERE. I wish the people who worked in factories in the third world got paid comparable wages workers here. all it takes is a good union. it would make WM think twice about shipping jobs overseas, wouldn't it?" I didnt mean to imply that the jobs benefited overseas workers at all, my bad for not being clear enough. I agree 100% with the above statement. I would add that because we dont have the ability to grant overseas workers the same rights workers have here, an import tax on their goods that benefits American factories would put our workers on the same playing field and we can control that without trying to organize a zillion overseas workers. As for making WM disappear overnight, its like the 8th largest economy in the world right now, so obviously a big ass void would appear that would need to be filled. In any event, I believe that the proper way to handle the situation is not to (necessarily) shut down all WM stores (which wouldnt solve the problem) but fix the trade deficit and engage in national policies that strengthen domestic manufacturing and stop giving incentives to companies who ship jobs overseas. Importing is obviously very important, but not at the expense of our workers. In other words, Walmart is a product of bad policies, so getting rid of the end product wont fix the problems...

To WO...first here is YOUR post... *Taz your "humanitarian" front is pretty see-through. You're not morally superior because you don't buy things made in china. You're just economically better off. Typical middle-class bullshit. How can you pretend to care about poor people in in third world countries while you blatantly show your disdain for poor people in this country? There is a HUGE number of people who shop at wal mart because THEY CAN"T AFFORD TO DO OTHERWISE. It's fucking true. Ahlyn's example of comparing prices of ramen is a perfect example of what lots of working class people in this country are forced to do so don't give me that sheep crap. You probably refuse to shop at walmart because you can't stand to be around the poor people who shop and work there* These are your words addressed to me personally...Now I love a good argument or "debate" if you are more comfy with that term...and I'm normally not a vindictive person just because someone disagrees with me...thats what life is all about.. HOWEVER...when you intimated that I was "fronting" I was offended...You said that I "pretended" to care about people in 3rd world countries while blatantly showing disdain for the poor in this country...now THAT pissed me off!...Because my views and yours are different you accuse me of this bullshit that has no basis in reality if you really read my words...And that utter crap about me not shopping at walmart because I "can't stand" to be around poor people...where in the fuck did that totally erroneous made up shit come from?...Not from anything I said thats for sure...I grew up poor as a church mouse, but I grew up with ideals...I live those ideals...I talk no shit...I do not "front"...I mean what I say...I don't think I am better or worse than anybody rich, poor or middle class.I do feel that I am lucky enough to be in a position that I can make choices that back up my ideals ...and this whole argument is not just about walmart ...they are just the biggest in a huge group of corporate mafias that are choking this world and its poor to death because we are letting them...make your excuses...have your opinion...that won't hide the truth. Now If you feel lke debating bring it on!...And one more thing that you said in a later post that bothers me...you mentioned something about being an "outsider" or something to that effect...well WO there simply are no "outsiders" or "insiders on this forum...It just don't work that way...everyone and I mean everyone is welcome on this forum and you are welcome to speak your mind...I'm sure our fearless reader and great hairy one (Gabe)would have it no other way...so feel free to keep joining in...you seem like an intelligent person and I ,among others on this forum, like a quick wit to banter with...just be advised...when you attack me as you did in that post...I BITE BACK....TAz

Taz, I get you man. Yes, my first post was a biting attack at you. I don't blame you for snapping back at me. I usually dont like to come at people like that, but like I said, a couple of beers and...you know. Also, I think I've been reading a little too much political debate, where they go after eachothers necks. makes great reading; not necessarily good for a tattoo forum. I think you get what I was trying to say though. you just said "I do feel that I am lucky enough to be in a position that I can make choices that back up my ideals". I was saying, (and I think Ahlyn was saying) that the fact that people shop at walmart has nothing to do with "sheep mentality" and everything to do with the fact that they are not so "lucky". It's fine that you boycott walmart. But the people who are screwed over the most in this country generally cant afford to boycott walmart, especially if fucking walmart is swallowing up every other comparable store within a 50 mile radius. AND, like somebody else said, if we try to boycott every corporation that exploits poor people, and treats it's workers here or overseas like rat shit, then we've got a whole lot of boycotting to do. I mean, It would be great if I could avoid shopping altogether. Unfortunately, I don't own any land to grow a farm on. I don't thnk very many people in this country do. Oh, and I don't feel like an outsider to this forum. I've posted here a few times, I read here all the time. But i am definately an outsider to the you and "D" thing. I don't even think I have the right to call her "D". didn't mean to get up in your mix. so now, since this is the second time I caused a semi-heated, non tattoo-related debate on this forum and I really don't like doing that, I will try to only post about tattoos. I can have political debates elsewhere.

Taz, I get you man. Yes, my first post was a biting attack at you. I don't blame you for snapping back at me. I usually dont like to come at people like that, but like I said, a couple of beers and...you know. Also, I think I've been reading a little too much political debate, where they go after eachothers necks. makes great reading; not necessarily good for a tattoo forum. I think you get what I was trying to say though. you just said "I do feel that I am lucky enough to be in a position that I can make choices that back up my ideals". I was saying, (and I think Ahlyn was saying) that the fact that people shop at walmart has nothing to do with "sheep mentality" and everything to do with the fact that they are not so "lucky". It's fine that you boycott walmart. But the people who are screwed over the most in this country generally cant afford to boycott walmart, especially if fucking walmart is swallowing up every other comparable store within a 50 mile radius. AND, like somebody else said, if we try to boycott every corporation that exploits poor people, and treats it's workers here or overseas like rat shit, then we've got a whole lot of boycotting to do. I mean, It would be great if I could avoid shopping altogether. Unfortunately, I don't own any land to grow a farm on. I don't thnk very many people in this country do. Oh, and I don't feel like an outsider to this forum. I've posted here a few times, I read here all the time. But i am definately an outsider to the you and "D" thing. I don't even think I have the right to call her "D". didn't mean to get up in your mix. so now, since this is the second time I caused a semi-heated, non tattoo-related debate on this forum and I really don't like doing that, I will try to only post about tattoos. I can have political debates elsewhere.

It's alright? I kind of get on alot of people's nerves, as mellow as I try to be. Anyone is welcome to call me D if they want, it's short for my first name, Deirdre, which no one can pronounce correctly, or spell either (ever wonder why I'm such a goddamn stickler for spelling?). ahlyn, D, or Deirdre if you think you want to attempt the long name. I try to remain anonymous in a sense on the internet, but with tattoonow it's kind of been a miserable failure, heh. I like to debate, alot, because I think everytime I have a good debate I get better informed about people and can broaden my grasp of the world even more so, nothing is better than that. I really love the tattoo community, and I like that I've added it as another cultural understanding..even though I kind of feel like an outsider still. I think informed speech is really a wonderful way for everyone to get and be more connected, and only good things can come from that. I get frustrated posting on the forum sometimes because I feel like I'm not representing myself well, and I do a great deal better in person, that's usually when I stop and think things over and save the conversation for later. I really do like almost everyone here, and I hope that I don't stir things up too much? I get frustrated and crazed just like everyone else, but I'm trying to keep that to a minimum, heh. Anyway I appreciate all of you, and I don't mind that this forum occasionally talks about other things, it makes it more like a community, and most forum boards have chit-chat sections just for that purpose. Anyway as another shameless hijack and plug, I'd really love it if you guys would check out my "Summer Projects" post that Gabe has so graciously allowed to stay up (I really do thank you for that Gabe, I just remembered I hadn't explicitly said thank you yet) and offer critiques on my drawings, or lack thereof. Taz has really been encouraging and helpful and I appreciate it quite a bit, but I'd love to hear from other people too! Well...that's all I guess.. ahlyn

Yeah ya DO get on peoples nerves...but them again who doesn't?...It seems to me that anyone with a respectable IQ and an opinion is gonna get on someones nerves ...so what?...we love ya anyway...And I love havin somebody who can argue in English without resorting to name callin and other such childish crap....so quit explainin yerself and lets argue about somethin!!!...LOL!...T

D UR SUCH A H8TR!!!!!!!!!!!! (Sorry, just fucking around. Couldn't help it.)

By the way ahlyn, are you tattooed yet? I missed that from previous posts. Anybody as inflamatory as you seems like a good candidate!!! (lol)

Yeah, I have a rib panel in progress, it's my first tattoo.

Oh its a bit more than a rib panel''...it s a masterpiece by Guy Aitchison!

I thought we talked about this! *shushes Taz*

Good. Good. See there is a god. Hate to think of you "Blank".

True I guess, but I wasn't any less of a person when I didn't have a tattoo or piercings. Different people need different things to feel fufilled, I try not to hold anything against anyone (and god that is hard). I wish I could paste that picture of Jesse Jackson holding the rainbow into this message right now..

Ahlyn, Is TAz serious about the Guy Aitchison thing? Holy Shmokes! TCE

Or at least sing Kumbayah or something.

Yes, it's true, he's not kidding. It was a freak accident how it happened I think, I'll never be so lucky again. Oh, lord. Kumbayah? Try singing the song with that punctuation, it makes it fun for everyone!

Ahlyn, That's absolutely insane, and way cool. Guy Aitchison's theory on how a tattoo should flow with the lines of the body has been the basis of my latest acquisition. Although the piece doesn't look anything like Guy's stuff, his work had a lot of influence on how mine was, and is still being, designed. I wanna see pics of both yours and Al's 'TAz'. BEST OF LUCK TCE