WHAT SHOULD I BUY FOR MY FIRST TATTOO MACHINES

Hello, i am looking for some solid advice from some experienced tattoo artists. I am currently a professional fine artist. My pictures are made with graphite. I am and have always been very advanced with my artistic abilities, and have been able to do work in all mediums. I have always wanted to get into tattooing, i have many people tell me that i should get a gun so i can tattoo them. anyways, i would like to hear from the pros on which way i should go with the purchase of my first machine. I have read a few different forums and it seems that there are a lot of different opinions about this subject. My question to all of you is, should i purchase one of the kits that i have seen online that cost anywhere from $200 - $400, or should i go the more expensive route and buy individual machines that cost upward of $250 a piece? Typically i like having the best of the best, but is it worth it is what im asking you, is there a big difference between the $50 machines and the $250+ machines? You can see my work at www.jonathanmenezes.com . i would like to have a machine that will allow me to do work like these drawings. (just a side note, if you like my site and would like one for yourself just contact me i can make you one about this size for pretty cheap) Im sure there are going to be a lot of nay sayers out there that will try to tell me that i wont be able to tattoo, and just cause i can draw doesnt meen i can tattoo. to be honest id rather not hear all of that, i know my abilities and your opinions on that matter wont sway me, so please save your breath if you plan on replying in that manner. i look forward to hearing all of your responses, thanks jonathan

Pleaaaaaaseeeee dont go about it this way, your an incredible artist, but if i can make one promise, its this, tattoo machines are a bit trickier to work with than graphite. It absolutely makes no difference how good of an artist you are if you plan on teaching yourself. Theres an entire technical side to tattooing in terms of being able to put a tattoo into someones arms so it not only looks good but doesnt cause any damage to the skin as well. You could toss a tattoo machine into Leonardo Da Vinci's hands and i can gurantee you any tattoo he did would look like shit. Artistic ability means jack shit when you dont know the technical side of tattooing. Please I beg of you, as a person who would someday be very proud to get tattooed by someday, given you go about things right and realize the potential you very clearly have, dont go out and start tattooing people. With your artwork i doubt theres a shop out there who would turn you down for an apprenticeship. Do things right and your name could easily be amongst the greats.

Pleaaaaaaseeeee dont go about it this way, your an incredible artist, but if i can make one promise, its this, tattoo machines are a bit trickier to work with than graphite. It absolutely makes no difference how good of an artist you are if you plan on teaching yourself. Theres an entire technical side to tattooing in terms of being able to put a tattoo into someones arms so it not only looks good but doesnt cause any damage to the skin as well. You could toss a tattoo machine into Leonardo Da Vinci's hands and i can gurantee you any tattoo he did would look like shit. Artistic ability means jack shit when you dont know the technical side of tattooing. Please I beg of you, as a person who would someday be very proud to get tattooed by someday, given you go about things right and realize the potential you very clearly have, dont go out and start tattooing people. With your artwork i doubt theres a shop out there who would turn you down for an apprenticeship. Do things right and your name could easily be amongst the greats.

Sorry for posting twice i dont know what happened there. Maybe i have a doppelganger. Which would be awesome.

let me start by saying that you are a gifted artist. there's no denying that. unfortunately that is only one of MANY,MANY requirements to tattooing. tryin to just pick up a machine and jump right in is foolish and dangerous. bein able to draw well doesn't teach you anything about cross contamination and bloodbourne pathogens or maintaining sterile fields. it also doesn't teach you the difference between a liner and a shader or the proper needle grouping to use to achieve a desired effect. it doesn't teach you how to perform proper aftercare to prevent infection. the list goes on and on. all of those things and more will be taught to you in anj apprenticeship. and with your artistic ability you would certainly have no problem attaining one at almost any shop. this artform is unlike ANY OTHER MEDIUM and isn't as easy as you seem to think it is. i've seen that you can draw well but i guarantee that if you tried to tattoo right now this instant with no training that your tattoo would look like shit with inconsistent linework and choppy shading. i'd be surprised if you could even tell the difference between a liner machine and a shader. its not a dig at you man it's just something that isn't all common sense and can be picked up immediately. and even if you did figure out wich machine was wich , what power setting would be optimal for each machine? and how would you tune each one? honestly there are a thousand such questions i could ask that i bet you couldn't answer at this moment in tiime. you have the raw talent that's obvious but you will need alot more than that to be a good tattooer and training under a veteran tattooer is the ONLY way to learn all these things (unless you want to fuck up all your friends skin with scar tissue and substandard ink) im not tryin to slam you. honestly i'd love to see you become a tattooer cuz im sure you could be great. but give this very skilled and unique form of art its proper respect and don't try to cut corners and let your ego limit your capabilities. you will have a much easier time finding a teacher than many did isn't that enough of a head start for you or do you expect it to be handed to you because you have some talent?? earn your respect as an artist man. an apprenticeship is a necessary thing to become great. paper doesn't stretch or bleed or scar or move or complain or get diseases from poor care. skin does so give your future customers the respect they deserve. we all did. i hope you'll take what im sayin to heart and realize that talent isn't everything in this biz. there is MUCH more to it than that

I agree 100% with the above posters. You REALLY have the talent, but tattooing and learning to tattoo is done by apprentiship, where a experienced artist will teach you how to work. Would you like to be a great tattoo artist on top of being a great artist in other areas, or would you like to be the one "who could have made it but fucked up his change because he didnt listen"? I BEG YOU. Take your portfolio to a good respected shop and I am POSITIVE they will be intrested. Here are some great places in CA that could maybe help you or direct you to the right path http://truetattoo.net www.templeoakland.com www.yercheatnheart.com www.gurutattoo.com

They all are right in here. With suck level of skills you won't have much of of a problem landing an apprenticeship. Put it this way, if a shop denies you, it's their loss. Don't think that tattooing is even close to drawing with graphite. You will scar people and get discouraged. You will probably good too go with just a few months of a solid apprenticeship. Good luck. I like our portfolio. Suggestion: that rose that you have coming up when you click on "low bandwith" is the weakest piece in your portfolio. Why not putting the best piece when the portfolio starts?

I meant "with such level of skills"

I think your situation doesnt differ a lot from someone like Mike Devries. www.mdtattoos.com He is at the moment looked at someone who pushed the art of realistic color tattoos to the max and you could be like him. But he too went trough an apprenticeship, and in his case it lasted only few months. But he did in nonetheless. Heres a snippet out of his bio I remember when I was about 16 years old, a buddy of mine came by to show me his new tattoo, and of course the next day I had to go get one. I did ask my parents for permission and I was very surprised they said yes. It was all over after that, I was hooked and I thought that was just the coolest job ever, I continued to get tattooed for years and I always paid close attention to the art and the process of tattooing, not knowing I would ever actually be doing it. I didn't really know how to start, but knew it was for me. One day in the beginning of 2003 when I was getting tattooed by Jim Hayek, he offered to teach me, after a random talk about it. I had to scrounge up some cash and do some construction work on his home in order to apprentice. I didn't waste any time, I started working on his house the next day, and soon after he started teaching me. It was a short apprenticeship, a few months of training, Right away I went and bought all the necessary equipment and started tattooing on all my buddy’s, after work and on weekends. Within a year I was able to quit work with my Dad and do this full time. It has been great, and has turned my life into an art world. Most of the time it doesn't even seem like work, it’s more like I get to do a great hobby all day, every day. Here is the website of his mentor www.jimhayek.com

the other thing an apprenticeship does that is VERY important is it garuntees the public skin. If the apprentice fucks anything up, the mentor fixes it. Or even better, a good mentor wont put an apprentice in a position to fuck up. You have an eye for realism for sure, Id love to see some color, and maybe some original art too if you have some. good luck, if you have the other qualities it takes to become a tattoo artist, you can do it.

am i the only one waitin for a reply from this guy? hope he does the right thing.

you fools are absolutly rediculous, you think you are so much better than everyone, and that only you are good enough to tattoo. its absolutly upsurd. i came here to ask for a simple answer from some people that have the answer, not to hear you all blow smoke up your own asses. its amazing that you have all reacted this way just cause you feel threatened. im not some idiot that doesnt know my ass from my elbow, just about everthing that i am accomplished in i have tought myself. so i dont see why this will HAVE to be any different. and just because a lot of you coudnt do it without someone holding your hand doesnt meen everyone needs that. i meen what makes you think every tattoo artist will be a good mentor. if you are stupid enough to think that that is the only way than i dont want to hear from you, cause to be honest we are on totally different intelectual platforms. its not like im just gonna pick up my gun and start massacring peoples bodies. i will practice and practice until i am as good as i am at the rest of my art. for those of you who arent so full of yourselfs and were just trying to help, i appreciate it, and i really am considering it, i still would like to own my own equipment before going that route, and i would like to try it out before making a promise to some established tattoo artist. im not some idiot that thinks i will be able to do it over night, i do understand that there will be a lot of hard work involved. and i do know that all of the information that i need can be found without making myself an apprentice. to be honest i hate the whole fraternity part of your culture, i went through college and avoided it all four years, and i dont plan on just jumping into it now cause i am hitting a little road block on my research. if i find that i need that help than i will seek it, but til then i would really like some solid advice from people that know and that are willing to help. i meen honestly a few of you talk about everything i dont know, like health risks, and other dangers, thing that to be honest can be learned in about 5 minutes for the most part, and for the rest i will be able to learn on my own. just for the record i do know a lot about hygene and safety transmitting diseases, i currently have to inject myself with medication every week or 2. so i know pleanty about infections and disease, and like i said earlier im sure that i can learn about those things in a book or on some movie. to be honest, im sure if one of you would actually take the time to talk to me and help me rather than talk shit just to feel superior, you can give me that crucial information in a fraction of the time that some shop would so for those of you that think you are so superior to everyone blow me, if you are so good, than why do you have the time to waste here, trying to discourage potential artists like myself, and for those of you that are honestly trying to help, thank you, even though i may not agree with all of it, thanks. and i will honestly take that information in and consider every avenue. so can someone please give me some of the information that i am seeking, thank you

i hope i get this in before i get a response from my previous post. i have submitted this question and response to 2 different forums. in my response i talk about the assholes, i looked back at all of the responses here and have realized that all of you have just given me good info, and not the bs that i recieved on the other post, so please disregard my response to those people. i would still like some more information regarding my question, and any more information that you will be willing to give me, i am a person that will take your advice to the field, and not just listen to what i want. like i posted earlier, i am considering the aprenticship, i have even applied to one shops ad online. but to be honest i cant afford a lot of the dead time that i will have in the shop if i am not making any money, i need to still keep my job, and learn on the days that i have time. so like i said earlier, i would like any and all information that you will be willing to give me. thanks

With that attitude I take back what I said. Having amazing skills won't make you a tattoo artist. Great attitude and respect for your peers is crucial. Stay with the graphite. An artist that can't take criticism is more of an ego slut than anything else. Shit man you got me on fire with your reply&%@#$%

..and I don't know how you are expecting to "practice" without "massacring" People? Tattooing grape fruit? pig skin? fake skin? I would suggest you open your mind to advise. If you come out with an "all mighty" attitude, you will not go far. Give your reply a second shot.

i'm on the bubble here bro. your first reply was ridiculous but then you at least tried to redeem yourself (somewhat). nobody's sayin go to any ole shop and become their errand boy. you should really find an excellent artist whose work you really admire and aproach him. but you really need to work on your level of respect man. as far as practicing on your own....it would help you(some) but what are you gonna use as a medium? fake skin is nothin like the real thing, pig skin isn't still living and isn't the same either. and how can a book teach you a physical task better then a hands on instruction that can be seeing any mistake made right then and then physically demonstrate the proper way? in two words....IT CAN'T. i truly am baffled by the fact that you won't even consider givin this craft its proper respect. you already have a major head start towards gettin an apprenticeship by the quality of your art. and you would probably end up spending alot less time in the learnin phase then most have. i hate it when people act like they are entitled to tattoo without takin the time to learn the proper methods. how would you feel about a surgeon who thought medical school was unnecessary? its seriously that laughable to think that talent alone is enough to start in this biz. as far as you being on some elevated intellectual plane from the rest of us ....... your opinions on this matter are really showing something contrary to that(sorry). i don't think i'm better than you. in fact i think you are a better artist than i am. but i bet i could do a much better tattoo (as far as technical application ) than you could right now at this moment. and only because i've been taught the proper techniques. (yeah im sure on paper you'd be much better) i'm only tryin to be real and help you man. and i don't really know why cuz your attitude is shit. i think its due to the potential i see in your art and i love seein am,azing new talent in tattooing. learn it right! you're only cheating yourself and your clients by insisting on cuttin corners. and if you're anything like me you hold your art to a certain standard and it will piss you off when your tattoos aren't up to that standard you hold yourself to. the art isn't the stuff you need to learn it's the medical and technical stuff that you need to learn your art will always be good . learn it right if you expect anyone to respect what you're tryin to do. and as far as tellin you a machine to buy... i was given a set of excellent machines by my mentor when he thought i was ready. and my apprenticeship didn't cost me a dime either (other than time and dedication) it will be a real shame if you don't take the advice you've been given man!!!!!!

hey, let me start off with my apologies, i tried earlier to clear up my mistake, to be honest i am quite happy with the responses that i have recieved from this forum. and honestly, before i posted this i thought there would be no way that i would consider an apprentiship, but now i am, so yes i respect any and all tattoo artists, but its the assholes that know nothing, that are just talking shit that id rather not hear from, and i made the mistake of making that post here, cause it was the other forum that i recieved all of that flack. so again, i meen no disrespect to any tattoo artist. just cause i am looking to do things another way doesnt mean im not listening

it's appreciated. hope you find a good mentor.(it won't take you long to learn at your level) i look forward to seein your work someday you are a gifted artist. i hear ya about the other forums ... an abundance of assholes for sure. as far as the machine question, buy quality man. the cheap kit machines are shit and make it harder to create consistent work cuz they don't stay tuned and are made with subpar parts. be like tryin to play a guitar w/ a warped neck and lousy pickups. but a mentor would advise you on what to buy(may even get them for you mine did) hope you decide to go the apprenticeship route. there are people who've learned on their own but i guarantee you that 100% percent of them would recommend doin it the right way and apprenticing. its easier in the long run it really is. and it keeps you from havin the "errors" in trial and error. we all want our name associated with only quality work..... good luck to you

one more thing, i still would like to hear from some one that is self taught, so i can get the full picture, and if anyone that has more info to say about apprentiships, i am all ears

guess i didn't mention this before. i actually tried the trial and error method for three years before i landed an apprenticeship. all i can say is "what was i thinking" it took me longer to unlearn my bad habits and get it all down properly. and i did alot of tattoos i regret before my apprenticeship. so all the things i said prior are from experience and regret. im really lucky i din't seriously fuck someone up. i finally realized that i was doin it all wrong and put the machines down and busted my ass and found someone to teach me properly. guess i shoulda mentioned this stuff before.

well that does help a lot. on top of my last post, can anyone guide me to people in central california that are great at portrait tattoos, both color and black and white. id really like to learn from the best if i go the apprentice route

well that does help a lot. on top of my last post, can anyone guide me to people in central california that are great at portrait tattoos, both color and black and white. id really like to learn from the best if i go the apprentice route

well that does help a lot. on top of my last post, can anyone guide me to people in central california that are great at portrait tattoos, both color and black and white. id really like to learn from the best if i go the apprentice route

man there are alot of people that would be good b ut im drawin a blank on the names right now. i know nikko is fuckin amazing and he's in apple valley. im sure you will get alot of other names from people here. my suggestion would be to start a new thread asking that very question. it will get you alot more answers. where in central cali are you? i used to tattoo in sacramento . there are alot of killer in l.a. and the bay area.

well i live near fresno, but the bay area will be ok i guess, and i will take your advice and start another post, but i dont plan on giving up on this post

http://www.lowridertatt2.com/home.html these guys are fucking amazing. You might also check out Good Time Charlies Tattooland. Both of these studios are doing phenomonal black and grey work.

Really man with the talent thats in California right now, if you get the right person to take you under their wing, i really do think you'll have limitless potential.

Why do you have a different email on your posts that you have on your site as your contact?

Sorry, you have 2 of them on your site...

Try one of these shops. Go in person and check their portfolio. I think it's easier to get an apprenticeship in Fresno than not getting one. Crazy amount of shops. Airbrush Kustum 1901 E Shields Ave Fresno, California 93726-5313 Phone: (559) 790-5321 Alan's Uptown Tattoo 4717 N Blackstone Ave Fresno, California 93726-0105 Phone: (559) 225-8282 Enchanted Nails 3075 W Bullard Ave Fresno, California 93711-1609 Phone: (559) 261-2499 Fax: (559) 261-2498 Eternal Tattoo 3825 N Blackstone Ave Fresno, California 93726-3802 Phone: (559) 226-4055 Everlasting Facets Of Beauty 1525 N Echo Ave Fresno, California 93728-1720 Phone: (559) 287-5772 Fine Lines 4U 1275 W Shaw Ave # 110 Fresno, California 93711-3710 Phone: (559) 906-9744 Fresno Tattoo & Body Piercing 1729 E Belmont Ave Fresno, California 93701-1910 Phone: (559) 237-5125 Ground Zero Tattoo 4753 N Blackstone Ave Fresno, California 93726-0105 Phone: (559) 229-3309 Inksane Asylum 4690 N Blackstone Ave Fresno, California 93726-0102 Phone: (559) 222-5222 Inkworks 1839 E Olive Ave Fresno, California 93701-1041 Phone: (559) 498-0911 Off The Hook Graphics 5494 E Lamona Ave # 108 Fresno, California 93727-2269 Phone: (559) 251-4665 Red Line Tattoos 86 E Olive Ave Fresno, California 93728-3051 Phone: (559) 264-1380 Reflections 2767 W Shaw Ave # 106 Fresno, California 93711-3316 Phone: (559) 225-9289 Skin Decor Tattoo Studio 5048 N Blackstone Ave # 118 Fresno, California 93710-6710 Phone: (559) 225-2284 Sunkissed Tans & Nails 3612 W Shaw Ave Fresno, California 93711-3231 Phone: (559) 271-1294 Tower Tattoo's 1140 N Van Ness Ave Fresno, California 93728-3462 Phone: (559) 233-7656 White Wolf Tattoo & Body Prcng 2333 E Mckinley Ave Fresno, California 93703-3006 Phone: (559) 441-7355 White Wolf Tattoo & Prcng 1312 E Harvard Ave Fresno, California 93704-5836 Phone: (559) 230-1369 World Class Tattooing PO Box 4294 Fresno, California 93744-4294 Phone: (559) 224-2270

7 months ago, I started on the self-taught route. I too hated the elitist attitude of a lot of the established artists. As someone who is not a pro and is not nearly as artistically talented as you, please read what I have to say. By choosing to teach yourself as well as disregard the pro's advice, you are unknowingly hurting yourself and sabotaging your place in this art/industry. While you may think it's ok to teach yourself, the people who you need to impress in this business disagree. And they are the ones who can make or break you. They can give you a shot - or not. You are already ahead of so many would-be apprentices with your portfolio. And a tattoo shop will not want to see a bunch of tattoos you did that were not done in a shop, no matter how good they may be. And they will find out if you can't give them references of prior employment. Your art portfolio is your key. Use it to your advantage. Furthermore, even if you did mangae to do great tattoos and get a job in a shop without a formal apprenticeship, you'd still be missing key aspects of the business that a properly trained apprentice would learn and an artist would know. So if you got hired as an artist, you'd still be fumbling around with certain things and looking like a not-so-stellar employee, regardless of skill. Like others have said, with the quality of your artwork, your apprenticeship would probably be shorter than most. And if a shop sees your art, they may be so stoked to have you that maybe you can work out a situation where you keep your job and apprentice on your time off. Nevermind technique for a minute. Wether you like it or not, this is a tricky and political industry and if you don't learn the rules and how to play along, you simply won't make it. Trust me, I am telling you this because I am just finding it out for myself - that everything I've been told about respecting the art and doing things the right way is of the upmost importance. And it doesn't just help out the pros, the shops, the industry, etc.. It mostly helps YOU. Please do yourself the favor of doing what you have to in order to do this the right way. Not only will it actually speed up the process for you but you will not look back in regret and you will have a more respectful beginning than many. Hope this helped some. :)