Why does every one play tight?

I dont get it. If you dont like it how people tattoo in their houses, why dont you help them out? Chances are their probably doing a better job at it than most professionals. Dont you think? They are always busy and their going to continue to be so why hate on them? Are you afraid of the competition? Are you that bad?

When you've been around tattooing long enough, you don't see a whole lot decent tattoo art by people tattooing out of there homes. I will be the first to admit that there are exceptions to this rule. I've known several. But don't trick yourself into thinking that professionals in the business are just talking shit for the sake of doing so, or out of some sort of jealousy. There are tons of people out there who were lured into getting tattooed by some "Kitchen Magician", and less than happy with the results. True enough that there are many people tattooing out of reputable shops who probably shouldn't be. And that is why people need to be made more aware of things going on in the business. What makes a good tattoo, proper sterilization techniques, and just all around professionalism. All which are difficult to achieve out of your kitchen, especially the sterilization! J.Capobianco HOPE Gallery New Haven CT www.joecapobianco.com

I got a home made tattoo from my uncle. He sharpened and boiled some guitar string in a pot. I got to admit it's the best tattoo ever. I got a picture of an aztec and damn it gots so much detail you can see the veins and tendons. I went to a tattoo shop recently and they said they couldnt do something like that. No wonder these people are scared. I'ts called job security.

And that's what I mean by not having a clue about "Proper Sterilization Techniques". A pot of boiling water may work in a pinch when delivering a baby, but it's a far cry from an autoclave! And I'd like to meet the shop staff that said they couldn't do what your uncle did with a guitar string, and lord know's what he used for a machine. J.Capobianco www.joecapobianco.com

hate on?compitition?do you even have a clue as to who you are talking to?first of all proffessional tattooist whove been in the buisness as long as we have dont sweat the kitchen magichians nor do i really give a shit about your uncles jail time.what we do care about is having to play clean up and cover up guys to the crap that these guys put out.we have people traveling to our shop on a daily basis from around the country joe himself tattoos more tattoists than regular clients so its preety safe to say he knows what hes talking about and i garuntee if you ask your uncle who he is hed probably want to make an appointment.you need help getting into the industry then bust your ass and do it the right way.no one benefits from making mistakes on skin just ask your pissed off friends who have to go to a pro to get the crap you put on them fixed.

l like the responses joe and julio. it seems everyone has some sense of entitlement these days and they are entitled to whatever they want. forget about working and earning anything it should just be given to every schmoe that can draw tribal. what stricks me funny is you never hear about some qauck doing dental work in his kitchen. wouldnt it be hilarious to go to your dentist and when he gives you a price just say what my cousins got some pliers in his garage he could rip my tooth out for 20 dollars. shit he even could boil that stuff to sterilize it while cross contaminating everything and half the neighborhood thats hanging out. id love to see some photos of this so realistic you could even see the veins tattoo down with a sharpened guitar string. people must realize we as professionals play tight because most people see a tv show and go oh i can do that i just need need to water down the black or start from the bottom. well you know what must people cant. they feel theyre to good to hang around a shop for awhile learning if theyre cut out for the business. just cause you can draw doesnt mean you have the right to fuck people up permanently.

Well you prove a good point there. My health doesn't come with a price tag on it, I mean you can't go to a store, or even a doctor and buy yourself years of good health. But I got myself a boyfriend and I guess he's what you call " A Kitchen Magician." He some how managed to learn how to tattoo and has great potential. I know he can make big bucks if he ever got licensed. I don't like it though how he does tattoos like that. I dont want him to catch a disease. So I've been persuading him to either stop or go pro, but every where we look its like "Look at all these wannabees" and "The last thing this world needs is another tattooist" I totally disagree with this. So if you can help my boyfriend out you got my email. The population only grows and what we need are proffesionals like you guys. I didn't really check you guys out but know that I did, DAMN!!! you guys get down. Much props.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a tattoo artist, nor do I wish to become one (I SUCK at drawing!). I do talk to way too many tattoo artists every day, though, and could play one on TV. That was a joke, I dont talk to too many artists, I love this job. In any event, Im talking as a person who cares for the art of tattooing as much as a tattoo artist (and Ill forgive the tattoo artists who dont think thats possible because I dont tattoo, but I wont shut my mouth and Im gonna say we sometimes (meaning the tattoo industry, or at least my little part)). I wish I had more time to write and edit this into something more manageable, but here you go. The way I see it is the world does NOT need any more tattoo artists. It cant hurt to have more FANTASTIC tattoo artists though. Every one on "this side of the fence" has learned many difficult lessons over the years. We want people who care and are dedicated to the art of tattooing to learn the right way, and want the people who dont care about the art to find something they do care about. Tattooing is not like any other business/art. Part of the mystique of tattooing is the permanence. The permanence of tattooing shouldnt be taken lightly (as a client or a wannabe tattoo artist) until you have learned enough about tattooing and yourself. People should not get or give tattoos without first spending a LOT of time learning from the best. Being tight lipped isnt about competition, its about safety, quality of artwork, and the technical ability to deliver a technically solid tattoo. To become a fantastic tattoo artist, listen to fantastic tattoo artists. They may not have learned the way they want you to learn(nothings quick and easy), but they have LEARNED the lessons they are gracious enough to share the hard way(probably), and are being kind enough to show you the proper way. Smart people learn form success stories, not deny them. They aren't being protective of their cliental, they aren't being hypocritical because they may have learned the wrong way, they are being kind enough to help people avoid making a lot of permanent mistakes on yourself and your friends. Sure, everyone has a right to do anything they want to. But if you CARE for the ART of tattooing, then you will seek out the best, and learn from them. Tattooing is all about NOT rushing into things. its about good things come to those who wait (and work hard to get it). So, even though you have the right to learn to tattoo, because tattooing is so unique, you also have a DUTY to do it the right way. and you might have to accept the fact that you ARNT good enough to be a tattoo artist. You probably cant be a Navy SEAL either... If you are good enough, and have the proper dedication, then you will acheive everything you want. As Joe said, if you are going to be a great tattoo artist, then every door closed will make you work harder. All that harder work will make you that much more attractive to the industry. More doors close? Work that much harder. The only reason someone should teach you how to tattoo is because you have worked so hard and have so much talent that making that decesion is a no-brainer. Again, good tattoo artists arnt worries about the competition, they are worried that crappy artists looking for a quick buck will be putting crap on peoples bodies in an unsafe environment. Tattooing is an art that should be reserved for the most amazing dedicated artists, and artist on that path. This isnt hair cutting. This isnt putting a poster on a wall, its not web design, its permemnetly marking people bodies until the day they die. If you really care for the art of tattooing, you will be patient, take your time, constantly hone your skills (both artistically, technically, and socailly) and take the advice from the best tattoo artists who offer it. Best way to get advice/initial lessons is to collect tattoos from the best. Consider it tattoo college. When you are ready, the industry will let you in. You budding tattoo artist wannabees are very lucky to have some really incredible talent talking to you here on this board. Take their advice. Change your life if you must, but put down the machine and instead of hacking on people in your kitchen, set up the drawing board practice practice practice until one of your favorite tattoo artists offers help.

Look i am so sick of people who work out of kitchens and are in it for the money, of course we all need to make a living but to be honest most of the ones who make it big do for the right reasons! It is amazing we just opened a studio up here in Indian Orchard and it seems we have 3 or 4 kitchen tattooers. It is disgusting what you mother f will pass off as good work and it is amazing how the people that you fuck up end up in a shop asking if it is good tattoo when they already Know the answer but because they pay 20 bucks or whatever in there minds it is justfiable. also having served a formal apprenticeship it piss me off when you kitchen people hate on the industry by saying we will not let you in chances are and i'm generalizing your too fucking lazy too show any moxy and find a really good teacher and serve an ass licking apprenticeship also how about showing some good damn appreciatation you tell joe and julio that they rock well fucking book some time with them and pay what they want and keep your mouth quiet you might learn something. I am constantly humbled when i see what there doing i have been tattooed by Eric at Hope three times and everybody there has been great and that is what Joe is talking about professionalism. so do everybody a favor and stop fucking people up because when you causes a heptatis outbreak because your sterilaztion techniques are crap it is not you hackers that lose it is the pros who are doing it right that get fucked and the industry doesn't need another black eye we are just starting to legitamize it here in Mass. Chad

as always gabe you are the voice of reason and i couldnt say it better myself.and thanks guys for the props .are doors are always open to questions.you just might not like the answers you get. hopegallerytattoo.com

i can see the point of view from both sides of the table. when i was stationed in san antonio i met a guy named george. he was a mexican fellow who was far from clean, but told me he could tattoo. i honestly looked at him and giggled a little bit until he brought his 16 year old son over to me and showed me his work. a full sleeve of beautiful women good and evil and immediatly i said you can tattoo me bro. i bought the needles liner and shader. i bought the tubes tips and grips. all presteralized and let him go to work. i now have a backpiece of a female angel with a scroll and lettering and it is by far the best tattoo i have recieved out of 18. and how much did i pay for this tattoo? he only asked me for 100.00 so he could have gas for his busted up monte carlo for the month. this was for 6 hours of work. i gave him three and told him it is a shame that talent like himself isnt picked up. not only could he make a living but bring fine work to the community and artwork of tattooing. - colby naval subbase bangor washington.

Cool story....I'll say it.....Post the pic to go with it!

Like I said Sailor ...There are street tattoo artists in the barrio of south central LA , my home, who will sleeve you out in 3-4 hours for a hundred bucks using homade crap and their work is CRAZY GOOD!!!!....so much talent and it goes to waste usually at the end of a needle full of smack....and these guys are true freehanders too needle to skin magic!!....TAz ps we would love to see your work though.

6 hours for a full back piece??! Damn.

OK here we go again. First the big disclaimer, I DO NOT CONDONE PEOPLE WHO WORK OUT OF THIER KITCHENS!! and after saying that, I work out of my home, but only because circumstance wont let me into a building of my own(yet). some of you know me, some know of me. Im sure alot of you dont know me at all. but I have to say, this is a subject that can be touchy sometimes......yes I do work out of my home. but the area I work in is completely seperate from my living space, and has its own entrance, I maintain a clinicaly clean enviroment, I am very knowledgable in my craft (ive been at this about 22 years now), I only use the best in strilization equipment. and of course I only use the best inks/equipment available. (huge thanks to my suppliers Don & Flo.....really great people) I have owned a shop in the past, and for reasons beyond my controll, I have been reduced to utilizing the extra space in my home to work out of. I would explain further, but it would take far too long, I guess my point here is that there can be great artists that work out of thier home (but the percentage is very low im sure) but the whole thing MUST be approached at a very professional level, if anything a Home based shop should be cleaner and more professional than an open business. Tattooing is much like surgury, and should be approached in nothing less than a professional manner. I do agree with alot of what you all posted, Tattooing out of a kitchen among the dirty dishes and stinky diapers is a thing that should be avoided at all costs....and to those of you who belive it is cheaper to put together a shop in your home as opposed to opening a shop, your dead wrong. I have invested Ass-Loads of money to be able to work out of my place. Ya, I know, my words are inspiring, and some dumbass is going to see this and think that if Mortis can do it out of his home so can I. if you are reading this, and you are that person, DONT FUCKING DO IT. buying a kit and setting it up in your kitchen or basement will not make you a tattoo artist. alot of information must be learned before a person should have the right to run a machine on a client, SERIOUSLY.... do as Gabe said, work on your art FIRST!!! then seek an apprentiship, Tattooing like any trade works on the Apprentice/Master relationship, where the Master over a lengthly period of time, trains the apprentice, and slowly funnels all the knowledge of his craft to the apprentice. Taz had a posting about Wannabe's and Scratchers that were working out of his area that were actually hurting his business...we joked about tattoo police....Maybe its not a bad idea, Taz....any words?? havent heard from you on this one yet. One last thing, I do need to mention.....for all of you that still think you can take a short cut and buy that kit, you will have a very long and hard road ahead of you, first, all the equipment and inks available to you are generally going to be of shit quality, the reputable companies wont deal with your ass. Second what are you going to do, when some big mother is irate because you gave him some crap work, or you have given him Hep-C. (or worse). are you willing to suffer the Violent consequences that can result from your actions?? ok, im done. Mortis

First of all I have been buying most of my stuff from Don & Flo for many years.... As for working from your home...like I said before I have done it ...not by choice but forced by circumstance because of tardy construction company!!! Imagine that!...But only on a VERY temporary basis...just til the shop was ready....now I will disagree about a home studio being as expensive as a separate shop...no way!...When its in your home you don't have near the overhead...no separate rent, utilities etc and THAT does ad up and quickly!... I have no problem with a professional working from their home as long as they are LICENSED!!! The kitchen magicians I speak of are the E-bay kit wizards that try to do it on their own with no help from a pro....the trial and error just does not work in this biz....and if I have to be licensed and inspected then by GOD so does everyone in my town that tattoos I don't care where....but in Mo you CANNOT work from a home...PERIOD There are a lot of really good artist who do work from their home in locales where it is legal to do so...(Dave Storm....no one can say he is a scratcher!) and others....I have NO problem with that. There ya go!...TAz

One more thing...I welcome competition...if you want to open a shop next door to me I will shake your hand and ask if ya need anything....what I am saying is that I insist on a level playing field...If I am required to follow the laws and be inspected and licensed then you are going to be held to the same standards... Why should anyone be allowed to operate a business that performs invasive and dangerous proceedures without regulations?Why should they be allowed to tattoo and pierce in their home without license thinking that boiling needles is sterilizing? THATS why we here in missouri have declared war on these people.We will not stand by any longer and see these idiots pass out bad tattoos and god knows what diseases all the while impugning the art of tattooing that we have worked so hard for so long to bring out of the back alley and into the light. I dunno much, but I do know that the people I speak of are not the Dave Storms and Lord Mortises....these are the people who do horrible work at cut rates and They DO affect our art...we must all come together and begin #1 educating the public and #2 fighting these amateurs with everything we have... On a level playing field....who is gonna win?....the guy with no experience who got an e-bay kit who is fucking up skin right and left?...or the professional with years of training and decent equipment doing solid safe work?....It will be the pro every time....just remember I said on a LEVEL playing field....that is if these assholes were forced to actually rent a shop and be inspected like we are...they could not compete!...TAz

ya, your right about the over head costs of running a business. I wasnt trying to leave that out. what I was trying to show is that it can still be quite expensive to work out of your home. Mortis

Oh I know that ...my point is that MOST not all...MOST people who tattoo out of their homes have no intention of ever being in a shop and are USUALLY te worst kind of "tattooers"...There are exceptions to any rule...you are one of them...Erlich (Don our pal) is another...and Legacy....but you guys are but a few out of the many who do their $20 and a twelve pack tattoos in substandard conditions on underage clients using substandard equipment and horrible sanitary proceedures....as I have said before...I have seen horrible conditions at conventions too...thats why I don't do that anymore...truckloads of alcohol ...sometimes no running water close etc etc...just as irresponsible as working in a basement!

Joe, I have to tell ya, I had a baby and there was no pot of hot water? Maybe they mean a HOT tub?

p.s. sterile is sterile. if you can't pass the basic test and afford an autoclave then you have no business tattooing with unsterile equiptment. If you are really talented, then you'll be ahead of the hacks out there right? The world can always use talented tat artists IMO.

Boy, I'll probably piss some people off here, but here goes. I agree with Mamacat. Man, you could be Leonardo Fucking DaVinci, and I couldn't care less man. You're not sterile, you're not getting near me. Sterile means Autoclave, new sealed needles, properly flushed tubes, pathogen barriers, the whole nine man.

Doin a better job than most professionals? Because they are busy??? Big fuckin deal, If I charged $20 for my design work I'd be busy all day too.

FUGGIN IDJITS!!!!

I would like to respond to the quote "One more thing...I welcome competition...if you want to open a shop next door to me I will shake your hand and ask if ya need anything....what I am saying is that I insist on a level playing field...If I am required to follow the laws and be inspected and licensed then you are going to be held to the same standards... Why should anyone be allowed to operate a business that performs invasive and dangerous proceedures without regulations?Why should they be allowed to tattoo and pierce in their home without license thinking that boiling needles is sterilizing? THATS why we here in missouri have declared war on these people.We will not stand by any longer and see these idiots pass out bad tattoos and god knows what diseases all the while impugning the art of tattooing that we have worked so hard for so long to bring out of the back alley and into the light. I dunno much, but I do know that the people I speak of are not the Dave Storms and Lord Mortises....these are the people who do horrible work at cut rates and They DO affect our art...we must all come together and begin #1 educating the public and #2 fighting these amateurs with everything we have... On a level playing field....who is gonna win?....the guy with no experience who got an e-bay kit who is fucking up skin right and left?...or the professional with years of training and decent equipment doing solid safe work?....It will be the pro every time....just remember I said on a LEVEL playing field....that is if these assholes were forced to actually rent a shop and be inspected like we are...they could not compete!...TAz" It would be nice to do every thing the "right way". I have a high respect for the people who have put in the time to get an apprenticeship. I wish I could do that. I live in mid missouri and guess what, no one is "accepting apprentices at this time". Except for the shop that wanted $15k for an apprenticeship. I'm not into the money aspect of the art. I want to learn how no matter what, I don't care if I have to scrub toilets, and make nothing! So let me ask you all, you diss people for scratching, but is about impossible for anyone to get an official apprenticeship. By the way did anyone know that missouri actually has no requirements (education, job exper. etc.) on becoming a LICENSED tattooest, peircer, or brander? ($75) (and $450 for shop licsense) So what it comes down to is as follows. You don't want to help the ones who have tons of potental, want to learn right, but yet don't even let them get a foot in the door. So people are going to scratch. I have yet to do real skin, just practice skin, and I have skill on my custom flash. I'm going to learn one way or another. If I have to learn on my own so be it. I also practice sterility on all my stuff (no, not boiling water, and yes on tattoo practice skin, to build good habits) I use all single use stuff. So quit dissing the ones who physically can't even get an apprenticeship, cause' belive me I have tried. Just as a little side story to hold up my point, I went to a shop and the owner said that he did not want an apprentice, but wanted my flash. It's the stuff like this thats causing the big "scratcher" problem.

Project osiris (sp?)...thanks for your post! I am going to tell you about Me...TAz...I have NEVER EVER turned down anyone who came into my shop with respect and dignity and told me that they wanted to tattoo....I want nothing more than to see this ancient art carried on by dedicated people...I think you are confused or maybe I was not clear enough....I do acknowledge that not everyone can do a formal apprenticeship and have no choice but to learn on their own...and I have nothing but respect and props for those who do it the hard way...I am not talking about those people...NO SIR...I am talking about the amateurs that think they already know it all will not listen to reason and tattoo people in dirty and unsterile conditions....that work from a filthy basement ,reuse germ and viral infested needles using substandard equipment that is manufactured to make a quick buck not to perform serious artwork... You have me wrong my friend...I ENCOURAGE people to get into the business of tattooing if that is what they really desire...I will help anyone at anytime if at all possible...for instance a man named Mike who started asking questions on this very forum just a few short months ago...because of the encouragement and advice he recieved here Mike now owns and operates a soon to be VERY successful studio in Rice Lake Wisconsin...Barron County Tattoos" Mike wasn't blessed with a formal apprenticeship...he did it on his own and I am proud to call him BROTHER...but he did things the right way...the ethical way...he didn't set up an illegal shop in his home without benefit of license...just so he could price gouge the pros...who have to pay enormous overheads to be in a shop legally NOPE!!! he saved his pennies and worked his ass off and opened a LEGAL studio ...he didn't keep himself in cheap booze drugs and sex by tattooing under age kiddies illegally..no ya see mike has heart..and something much more important...Mike has ETHICS!! He didn't sit around on his ass moaning about how he couldn't find an apprenticeship and all the other excuses scratchers use to justfy their existence...he quietly worked and sweat and bled until the day came that he became a tattoo artist..and he can now hold his head high and be proud that he was self taught ...I helped him...but I only helped him to help himself...I take no credit...If he hadn't had it in him he would have failed with or without my help Dissing scratchers?...Hell yes I diss them ...they are dangerous people who spread disease and pass out bad tattoos like cheap candy at a parade...they hurt the industry mightily...when people see a poorly executed tattoo that just solidifies the stereotypical image of our world that we, the professionals of this business have sacrificed so much to bring into the light of legitimacy. I think your definition of scratcher and mine differ greatly I only hope that this long winded diatribe has made my position a bit clearer Again thanks for your post...and I will tell you the same thing I told Mike months ago...I am here...I will help you in anyway that I can...show me your dedication and I will show you how to get into this business, this ancient art and I will be right there behind you to give you that little push we all need from time to time...If I can help in anyway just e-mail me...my e-mail addy is right above this post or go to www.paintedangel.com and get the shop number and call me...your call will be welcome ...Good luck!...TAz

Well getting an apprentiship is not easy-no matter what trade e.g I am a welder.Always wanted to do it,since the first time I saw someone doing it.I went everywhere,begged for lessons and just hung out till kicked out.I took a job in a fabrication shop as a painter-something I don't like,but I was close to welding.I pestered the welding foreman until I though I would be fired(a year),welded on All my breaks asked a lot of questions,stayed after work and welded.Guess I finally showed enough ambition that the foreman took me under his wing.I've been welding for years now and can stick snot to a two year olds lip in the middle of a New England winter.I guess the moral of this story is--if you want something bad enough you'll get it.Quityerbitchen and go for it. if you really want it,nothing can stop you.

Now THAT was the best post I have read on this forum for a long long time...Thanks Rob! So many people come to this forum with the firm belief that they are entitled to every ounce of knowledge that we ,as professional tattooists, use on a day to day basis...its like they believe that we OWE them something...well WE DON"T!!...We owe the art of tattooing the respect it deserves...the respect that keeps the hackers OUT!! Why should we be required to just hand over the knowledge that we busted our asses for?....WE SHOULDN"T! I love nothing more than to see new people ...dedicated people...ethical people enter into our business...I will encourage and teach these truly dedicated people to the very limits of my ability...but if I am approached by one of these assholes who DEMANDS that I share my knowledge.well...THAT just ain't gonna happen...so this is what I say to THOSE people...I am here for you...if you know in your heart that you MUST be a tattooist I will help you...but you must first help yourself...develop drawing skills..become educated on cross contamination proceedures... take cpr and blood borne pathogen classes...take art classes...put together a professional portfolio...Research the history of this great art both ancient and modern.....you do all this and you are a shoe in PERIOD!!...But don't even waste my time or yours if you harbor the ridiculous belief that you will get rich quick without working for it...don't come to me with a shabby assed half full portfolio with a few juvenile sketches.... most importantly don't come to me thinking that I "OWE" you anything...I DON"T!!!...TAz.

Now THAT was the best post I have read on this forum for a long long time...Thanks Rob! So many people come to this forum with the firm belief that they are entitled to every ounce of knowledge that we ,as professional tattooists, use on a day to day basis...its like they believe that we OWE them something...well WE DON"T!!...We owe the art of tattooing the respect it deserves...the respect that keeps the hackers OUT!! Why should we be required to just hand over the knowledge that we busted our asses for?....WE SHOULDN"T! I love nothing more than to see new people ...dedicated people...ethical people enter into our business...I will encourage and teach these truly dedicated people to the very limits of my ability...but if I am approached by one of these assholes who DEMANDS that I share my knowledge.well...THAT just ain't gonna happen...so this is what I say to THOSE people...I am here for you...if you know in your heart that you MUST be a tattooist I will help you...but you must first help yourself...develop drawing skills..become educated on cross contamination proceedures... take cpr and blood borne pathogen classes...take art classes...put together a professional portfolio...Research the history of this great art both ancient and modern.....you do all this and you are a shoe in PERIOD!!...But don't even waste my time or yours if you harbor the ridiculous belief that you will get rich quick without working for it...don't come to me with a shabby assed half full portfolio with a few juvenile sketches.... most importantly don't come to me thinking that I "OWE" you anything...I DON"T!!!...TAz.

Now THAT was the best post I have read on this forum for a long long time...Thanks Rob! So many people come to this forum with the firm belief that they are entitled to every ounce of knowledge that we ,as professional tattooists, use on a day to day basis...its like they believe that we OWE them something...well WE DON"T!!...We owe the art of tattooing the respect it deserves...the respect that keeps the hackers OUT!! Why should we be required to just hand over the knowledge that we busted our asses for?....WE SHOULDN"T! I love nothing more than to see new people ...dedicated people...ethical people enter into our business...I will encourage and teach these truly dedicated people to the very limits of my ability...but if I am approached by one of these assholes who DEMANDS that I share my knowledge.well...THAT just ain't gonna happen...so this is what I say to THOSE people...I am here for you...if you know in your heart that you MUST be a tattooist I will help you...but you must first help yourself...develop drawing skills..become educated on cross contamination proceedures... take cpr and blood borne pathogen classes...take art classes...put together a professional portfolio...Research the history of this great art both ancient and modern.....you do all this and you are a shoe in PERIOD!!...But don't even waste my time or yours if you harbor the ridiculous belief that you will get rich quick without working for it...don't come to me with a shabby assed half full portfolio with a few juvenile sketches.... most importantly don't come to me thinking that I "OWE" you anything...I DON"T!!!...TAz.

Bump

What the flyin fuck is with the triple posts?...I KNOW I only clicked on submit once...also running really slow...anyone else having site problems?.....Taz

Another question Osiris...what does the laws in missouri have to do with this subject...to my knowledge only 4 staets have any real educational requirements etc for getting a tattoo artist license....so what was your point? Am I missing something here?...TAz

Yes it's slow.No we(Tradesman)don't owe anybody anything.Like I said if you want something bad enough you'll find a way to get it.

just wanna see if i can post

Ok all apologies I can , thought you may need to be a member and pay the fee, ( piss off I'm broke). At any rate you all talk about the scab artist swinging needles in the kitchen and would like to think that they're ruining the image of the tattoo industry. And well you're exactly right on some occasions, but you'd be a damn fool to actually think there aren't any decent artist pushing ink from their homes besides your good buddies you've met online or in person for that matter. I myself am a tattoo ARTIST , FROM HOME. Come to Kansas and explain to me why there aren't any openings for apprenticeship I don't give a fuck what happens in Missouri or California or the moon for that matter. I live here this is my home and this is where I intend to make a living doing what i love most. And honestly guys and girls , I don't do what i do for the money, sure it pays the bills and feeds the kids , but your parents and everyone you've ever met has always told you that doing what you love , for monetary gain, is much more beneficial to the soul than say pulling concrete or framing houses. If your'e heart's in it you'll do well. I've been tattooing for the last 8 years roughly and sadly enough and as much as i hate to admit it , the first 5 of those years was with homemade junk equipment on test tube ginea pigs called friends. I've since taken time to go back and fix these MAJOR fuck ups due to my own ethics and guilty conscious. But that's not my point i'm trying to make i guess. What I'd like to say basically is , for ks i suppose, is this market is cornered. The state board of cosmetology has fixed it so, 1200 hours under a licensed trainer is what will make you applicable to take the test to be licensed. Sorry guys but if ink is your life , it's also your bread and butter and why is Shitdick John , one of the few licensed trainers in ks , going to train me to take his business? Whether I tattoo from the heart or not? John's just a name no one specific. Bottom line being , in ks, these guys know that no one can get in without their approval aka apprenticeship, if no one gets in they keep making money. More money = a better quality of living for them and their families , yay for team asshole right? In the meantime they're smart enough to realize their position and hike prices up in their parlors, statewide. No wonder you have more guys like me making more money than these self righteous pricks in their parlors. And i'm not cheap , and I'm clean, and i'm dedicated to my industry. NO I will not tattoo a minor wihtout the parent present at the time, no i do not permanently perform on intoxicated individuals. The only difference between me and most people in this industry i've met , is i'll refer my own custormer , money i could use to feed my kids to someone who I know can accomplish the style and tattoo they're after if i'm incapable or uncomfortable. As well as every "kitchen magician" I meet , even if I know they're horrible at what they do , I throw them some help, where to get at the very least , if not professional needles , CLEAN ONES. You aren't going to stop these guys from tattooing , you're not goina to deter idiots from going to these people , so the least you can do is hope that they're doing it clean , we ( meaning most good artist) can cover or fix some ex con's fuck up , but we can't cure hepatitis , or HIV, or this staph infection running around. What we can do is help these money hungry fucks pushing needles from the basement , using guitar strings and printer cartridge ink not give these diseases to people. So declare war or whatever it is you think you need to do . But if you're really so concerned about the business and the way the world sees it , you may want to reconsider kicking that ignorant son of a bitch that came to try and buy some ink from you out of your shop and be civil with the kid and let him know how to fix some of his risky practices. P.S. this MRSA staph infection has also come from licensed professional shops and that only goes to show you that even the licensed and so called professionals in this industry can be just as useless to the industry as the guy that only knows how to trace a pattern with speedstick and a bic.

Oh ok wow sorry , I guess refreshing the page autosends the post again. But this is a touchy subject matter , especially to me , the at home guy. And I feel that not all but the majority of licensed tattooist out there liike to condemn people like me and the rest of us who've learned the business on our own and are still dedicated to success and rising above medocrity. and there are more than just a few of us.I've met guys like me who're way better than me and maybe have a drug problem or marrital issues or child support that prevents them from being licensed and that's not an excuse but everyone's got issues they deal with , in and out of parlors worldwide it's just life, my main bitch i guess lol , is that sailor jerry, Maud and Gus Wagner , Huck , all the late greats that helped bring about the social acceptance of this art form were a small group of self taught and generous peoples who shared the knowledge among enthusiasts. Most professionals i've met are in it for the money otherwise they'd be just as willing to share , who gives a fuck how dedicated a man is to the art , the industry is better off with all of us , especially you assholes who say " you don't owe anyone anything" , you're a prick lol , you owe it to the industry to explain , teach , and share every aspect of this art form to the world , because it's assholes like you that maybe unknowingly are keeping tattoo taboo alive. Not so much the kid in highschool who can draw on a notebook and steals tattoo magazines so he can recreate someone else's work and eentually work his way up to a home made rig to fuck up a few buddies. I'm saying that if you love the industry and the artform and not the money you make from it , I think you'd be more willing to tell anyone any fucking thing they'd ask so at least the peopel who we all know are not dedicated enough to put in the work to become great will have a better understanding of how not to ruin someone's life through disease and scarification. From what i've read here most of the so called professionals are in it for their own benefit their actions say they're most definately not in it for the reputation of the industry as their words might say.

If you no it all just keep doing your thing and mind your own buisness.I will tell you straight out no i dont want to give someone information about tattooing so they can open a shack down the block and cut my price in half.Maybe in a few years when people start to understand what a shitty tattoo looks like then it will not matter.But for now i see a lot of tire kickers and who can do it the cheapest and i dont want to pay top dollar for all my legal set ups and taxes,rent .shopping mall tax,ect.So someone can basically screw me..I dont no you and i am not judging you.All i can say is be clean and fair make your prices even with others ,dont cut throats and if your still successfull god bless..Take care.I think alot of it for me is not the house thing its the taking advantage of the fact that alot of people dont no what is good and what is shit and will get tattoos from people like that just to save money.Thats only my oppinion.I am sure other feel different

Thanks for the reply Boss. At least you seem honest and sad as it is that's rare in the industry from people i've met at any rate. I'm living my dream , I'm tattooing , and people love my work on them as much as I love putting it on them. Granted people get some pretty stupid tattoos ( hell i have many) lol but they walk away happy with the art i've put in them and I spend their money happily knowing I did great sterile work and achieved what they were after. But it's a damn shame that people in the industry capable of helping out not necessarily guys like me , because i'll make it regardless, alone if need be. But the guys out there that have some genuine artistic talent but really may be just too stupid to quote a price properly or sterilize a machine and tubes, or even make the big change to a professional rig. And coming from the old walkman motor and guitar string , I understand what a difference the machine can make in one's work. On that same note i've seen guys that couldn't tattoo with a real machine if their lives depended on it but could put most pros to shame with a homemade rig, all in what you learn i suppose but alot of people refuse to expand their knowledge of their chosend art form or industry, like being a fry cook is good enough who needs to run drive thru right? same analogy.

I am going to agree with you on one thing....The laws in Kansas are meant to keep people out of the business...if you don't know someone or are prepared to bribe someone you will not get a license in Kansas....that being said let me tell you just how much of an asshole I think you are....Tattooing is an invasive and possibly dangerous proceedure that should only be done by professionals...LICENSED professionals...if you can't or won't get licensed in your state then fuckin move like so many others before you have....sometimes you have to sacrifice....You act like we owe every idiot that comes through our (licensed and inspected) doors a full education in this art that we sweated and bled and sacrificed to obtain...BULLSHIT!!!....name one just ONE other profession that takes training where the training is just GIVEN...NONE!!! I have never NEVER turned down anyone who respectfully came to me and wanted to learn...and I don't make em pay out the ass or scrub the shitter with a toothbrush either.....but I will damn well pick and choose who I teach ...it will not be someone like you who will learn the basics and then open up shop in their kitchen and do cutrate tattoos...no it will be the person who REALLY respects this art...who wants to do it the right way... Now you just keep on doing those illegal tattoos in your illegal little home shop ...the law of averages will catch up with you soon...they'll kick your door in and confiscate your equipment and hit you with a fine (that you could have used to open a shop and feed your kids LEGALLY) plus the IRS will be right there sayin" ok you have been doing business for HOW long without paying taxes?"...SLAMMER for you unless you have a few grand sittin around to pay back taxes! And just one more thing...lets see some pics of your work!...T

SHOW US YOUR SHIT OR SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Name one profession? How bout every profession man. Ok i'm 28 years old i wasn't born into the tattoo business and i'm sure most of us were not. So it's safe to say we've all had other jobs right? Given, anyhow so you worked at say idk mcdonalds , if you asked how the fryer worked were you told? Framing houses, if you asked how a header was put together were you not shown? It's peopel like you who think just telling the world how you work or how you do your work is going to screw up your business , like the one person said previously in this post he's all for some asshole opening shop right next to him. then the guy after me said fuck no he doesn't want anyone working the trade like him near him , it takes from his money. And to say because a person is licensed that they've put in more time , respect the business more, or are a better artist is a bit of a blankete statement , hell i've covered so called licensed professional's work , it's a sad place when you think that the art of tattoing should be socially acceptable and portrayed as a clean healthy environment but the half of you whom are in those environments refuse to share with those who are not. in order to make the view of tattoos as a whole more acceptable.

Ok here my girl just read that post and said something that made alot of sense , " if someone loved and cared for their profession as much as you all say you do you'd be willing to tell anyone anything that would improve their work ", regardless whether they were to apprentice in your shop or not. But as we see that's not the case with you fellas.

My biggest issue with you and people like you it seems is that. I"m more than a good artist and I know I will be a tattoo artist for the rest of my life , i love what I do and I could give a rats ass who says i'm not charging enough or if they don't like the tattoos I do , I have never not ONCE had someone leave me not completely liking the tattoo they've recieved from me , even if it was something stupid in my eyes. That is my goal to send them away more than conten , HAPPY with the work they recieved as well as the price they've paid. Yeah i may be undercutting you pricks in the shops but guess what , I'd be ten times better than the majority of tattooist I've seen in all of kansas not too mention KCMO, If there were people standing behind their words like you taz with that i'll help anyone who's dedicated because it's bullshit to hear you talk that shit. I'd be interested to know how many of the people on this forum here actually put in their time apprenticing with someone they barely knew versus the guy that got in because his buddy or his girlfriend used to fuck the tattoo trainer. My answer to the people refusing to train me in the proper way , is to undercut their business and learn it alone like all the greats did before me , so piss off lol. I'm not trying to be rude but i'm very passionate about what i do and even undercutting you assholes here in ks who if you ask me are over charging for work because they know the market's cornered and their customers have no choice but to pay if htey want their work done in a shop. Granted I do understand the seroiusness of the work we do and the permanency of the art itself. But people want tattoos the more people with tattoos the more acceptable it's going to be on a national if not global scheme. My advice to the pros in kansas would be to lower your prices , you'd get all my business and then some. plus you'd be doing amazing things for the rep of the art itself. If youre' not about money like most of you say you are , then do what's right for the business , teach , share, learn from one another , every artist I've met seems to think they're king shit of the tattoo world. Me? I'm just some shmoe learning it the hard way because all you so called pros dedicated to the business won't share what you've learned to make it easier on someone truly dedicated,. THanks alot guys

Your statements are ridiculously flawed...comparing frying french fries with a permanent invasive proceedure?...Do ya hear that guys?...we have now been lumped into the same basket as a high school kid doing a job that is not even considered skilled labor!!!...Comparing a skill that takes YEARS to master to flipping BURGERS!!!! It just does not get any more ridiculous than that.......I have been in court on several occaisions, I think I will open up a law office...and those damn lawyers better just tell me how its done too or I will pout like a bitch!...Or NO!...I got it!!! I was in the delivery room when my kids were born...hell it don't look that hard...I think I wanna be a gynecologist...I have a spare room at home!!...Why should I have to pay for years of college? ..I worked two summers when I was a teenager helping in construction...I think I will start an electricians shop...can't be too hard! And I won't pay taxes either!...and if I work out of my basement I won't have any overhead like the REAL people do so I can undercut their prices!!...Yeah!...Sounds like a plan!!! Your arguments are insipid and assinine to an extreme! Key words here( and I will type very slowly so maybe you will understand....Key words here are ..INVASIVE PROCEEDURE...PERMANENT TATTOOS!! CROSS CONTAMINATION...BBP (Blood Borne Pathogens)....Ya just don't learn this stuff on the net kiddies and anyone who tries to encourage you to do so is VERY irresponsible and has no respect for the art of tattooing or the people who get butchered by the morons who read her crap and think "well hell I can do that...let me just order up one a them E-bay kits and start tattooin" What you are doing is ILLEGAL at best and DANGEROUS!!!..T

I've had guys come straight out of jail to me with home made rigs wanting to buy needles , what do I do? NO fuck that what would you do? tell him to get bent huh? youknow what he's going to do? go to guitar world and poison some people. I sold him some needles , why? Because they're CLEAN , what he does with them after they're opened is his business, but i do all i can to tell the idiot how to keep clean how to tattoo better , whatever i can to help the guy. You're not dedicated to anyone but yourselves and your business. There's a millioin companies online doing COD's to people like me , hell people like anyone , even the asshole with a walkman tattooing his buddy for nothing. Just to learn , because he wants in the business he wants to imitate the beauty of the art he's seen so many professionals int he magazine do , but it's not easy is it? youv'e got to practice , and you don't like to share you don't want to help, you want to make the money put yourselves in the magazines , better yourselves not the art , To me you're shameful and it's the pros in this business that've been hurting it the most I believe.

Posted by [email removed] from IP: 207.192.207.158 on 07/15/06 HADES Your statements are ridiculously flawed...comparing frying french fries with a permanent invasive proceedure?...Do ya hear that guys?...we have now been lumped into the same basket as a high school kid doing a job that is not even considered skilled labor!!!...Comparing a skill that takes YEARS to master to flipping BURGERS!!!! It just does not get any more ridiculous than that.......I have been in court on several occaisions, I think I will open up a law office...and those damn lawyers better just tell me how its done too or I will pout like a bitch!...Or NO!...I got it!!! I was in the delivery room when my kids were born...hell it don't look that hard...I think I wanna be a gynecologist...I have a spare room at home!!...Why should I have to pay for years of college? ..I worked two summers when I was a teenager helping in construction...I think I will start an electricians shop...can't be too hard! And I won't pay taxes either!...and if I work out of my basement I won't have any overhead like the REAL people do so I can undercut their prices!!...Yeah!...Sounds like a plan!!! Your arguments are insipid and assinine to an extreme! Key words here( and I will type very slowly so maybe you will understand....Key words here are ..INVASIVE PROCEEDURE...PERMANENT TATTOOS!! CROSS CONTAMINATION...BBP (Blood Borne Pathogens)....Ya just don't learn this stuff on the net kiddies and anyone who tries to encourage you to do so is VERY irresponsible and has no respect for the art of tattooing or the people who get butchered by the morons who read her crap and think "well hell I can do that...let me just order up one a them E-bay kits and start tattooin" What you are doing is ILLEGAL at best and DANGEROUS!!!..T top of page

I don't believe this...here you are a hack yourself bragging about selling some idiot needles that he is gonna BUTCHER people with and you say WE are shameful? And again..lets see some work!

You all are really too much , i need a beer brb.

Ok sorry bout that i"m back , this forum typing is a bit weird you have to keep checking for responses , at any rate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, OK dude I take my profession and your's a bit more serious than thinking it's as simple as flipping a burger. I'm saying that in any other placed i've worked and no i've never worked for micky d's , if you ask and want to learn more you're taught , if the fry guy is bored and you ask him how to cook french fries he'll tell ya all he knows in a matter of minutes , granted i've only been doing this for a few years and yeah i'm still an amateur by the guidelines you lot set forth. the point being is that if you show the willingness to learn in the business you're taught. Unless of course you want to tattoo , isn't that right?

And check this out dude , You said i'm a hack and i was shameful for selling needles to a guy i know couldn't do good work. Do you honestly think that it would have been better for the industry to not sell to this guy? Maybe better for your pocket book bub. This guy's probably doing pretty good now , and at least he's using clean needles , if I'd have not sold him needles he'd be using guitar strings and hobby lobby ink . and passing out all kinds of shit because he didn't at the very minimum have clean needles and ink to work with. Once again you redundant fuck YOUR POCKET BOOK would be fucked as well as the industry. If some limp dick is tattooing with dirty shit , who takes the fall? just him? nah that looks bad on everyone, if some asshole is doing shitty work but at least not passing out hepC to people who benefits? You and me the cover up arttist which i know is a whole different world all together. But hopefully you'll get the point. If not it's ok , i'll still be a pro with a license one day and in the meantime i'll keep taking your money.

I honestly don't mean to disrespect anyone who's in this business, but I'd really like to hear how any of you , especially you Taz (since you're the one posting the I don't owe anyone shit line) , became a pro and or parlor owner that you are today? I'd be willing to bet it wasn't alone, I'd also be willing to bet you're probably related to if not good friends with the people who've KEY WORD HERE YOU FUCK * HELPED YOU ALONG THE WAY" . I mean you're not an island you weren't born with the machine and the know how already intact ,someone helped you , you were taught , and you act like every person like me that's had to learn the long and hard way , thank god I've never passed out HIV but i've learned how to keep things clean , on my own because of people like you who've forgotten how you got where you are. And blatently refuse to help out the persons you used to be based on your so called i'm doing it for the industry bullshit you spew , , You assume an awful lot buddy , like i'm a scab artist or that you need proof of my work to see that I'm good at what I do , or that I'm even female , lmao Personally I wouldnt' let you train me , even though i'm sure there's quite a bit I could learn from you but judging by your posts most of what you could offer me is how to keep the clientelle from looking at other prosptective artists and quite frankly I don't respect you for that , Even I've steared prospective customers towards someone I know that could do their work better than I could , and well that's earned me their respect and sometimes they come to me just for that reason , among others. I think you need to do some searching maybe back into your past guss and maybe send a few letters to some peopel that've helped you out. Idk maybe you're one of those assholes that's been jaded by the money Idk , I do this because i love the art , I think you do it for the money.

You will only be taking my money till you get caught!! And you will! So selling this idiot needles is taking money from ME?...oh I kinda doubt that honey...I'm booked til february of next year kiddo. Besides either myself or some other professional will get the job of covering this hacks work...KA CHING!!!that is if his VICTIM doesn't get AIDS or HEP or MRSA...which by the way has NEVER been connected to a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL SHOP!!...JUST TO KITCHEN MAGICIANS LIKE YOU!!!And do you honestly think that this person will just use those "clean" needles once....Oh bullshit!...That asshole will use them over and over on his VICTIMS and you KNOW that if he doesn't have needles he sure doesn't have an autoclave...Do you even think he has any clue about blood borne pathogens?Or about barriers and skin shock and cpr and any of the many things that are a MUST when perfoming an invasive proceedure?...You know damn well he doesn't You may kid yourself kiddo but you sure aren't gonna fool the real PROS One thing you are conveniently omitting is that I have absolutely NO problem with people such as yourself tattooing in a home studio IF you are licensed and if you tattoo in a safe manner....If I have to be licensed why shouldn't YOU have to be licensed?...What makes you exempt?...Come on give me a reason that you should be able to bypass the laws and I am sure not even pay taxes? AGAIN where is the work you do from your home?...T

Once again Guy I"M NOT FEMALE , talk all the shit you want about that , Dude I checked out your profile , You're one of what three shops operating in St. JOE? No wonder you're thinking you're hot shit , I'm swinging more needles a day than most pros and i'm in the biggest city in Kansas dude, not because i'm cheap or because I'm well known because i've just moved here , peopel come to me based on my reputation as a good CLEAN artist. Maybe you need to talk to your counterparts here on the ks side and let them know and really being as close to ST. Joe as i've lived for most of my life and trying to squeeze into this business as often as i have , it's a wonder i've never heard of you , got a name? And dude really I saw some of the work coming out of your shop and may take me a minute but i can surely send you soem pics of work i've done that would shame your shop horribly from a so called kitchine magician as you've so nicely called me. not too mention bro you might want to watch the news or read the paper once in awhile , there's more than one confirmed MRSA infection coming directly from professional tattoo parlors , i believe it was OHIO , but all you pros stay up to date on that tattoo industries struggles because you're more worried about the rep your industry gets than the money you get to blow at the strip joint right?

In regards to giving a guy just out of jail "clean" needles to help him out.... I could give a bum a brand new $5 bill and tell him where to get the best biscuits and gravey in town but do you honestly think that he is going to use it to by food? 9 time out of 10, no. All you did was facilitate a need. You may think that you have done a service to the industry by "educating" the idiot but all that guy came to you for was needles, not your advice.

Well your last post just nailed it for me...it impressed on me just how ignorant you are...if you had read all the posts on here you would know that I help people get into this business EVERY FUCKING DAY!!!!...As of right now I have personalyy apprenticed over a dozen tattoo artists and given help and advice to many dozens more...every single apprentice I have ever trained is now either working in a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL studio or they own their own LICENSED PROFESSIONAL studio.....and guess what?...I do it for free!!!!!! Talk to Mike from Rice Lake Wisconsin on this forum ask him where he was 6 months ago and where he is now...then asked him who helped him....Talk to Legacy also on here....see what he says about me.You don't have a CLUE about me. Did I get help in the past?...of course!! But not one of the people who helped me and taught me would have given me needles if they thought for a second that I was tattooing before I had learned how...in fact I would have had my thumbs broken!!!...I have been shop bitch...the shop gopher...scrubbed toilets ran errands...I paid my dues...There were times when I was learning this art that I didn't eat for a couple of days....I could have started tattooing in my home but I had the respect for this art and for my mentors that would not allow me to do that I sacrificed for YEARS to learn this art and you have the unmitigated gall to compare me to YOU? That is just LUDICROUS!...You say how you are in this for the art when you don't even have the BALLS to get in a real shop As for me not knowing whether you are female or male...I couldn't care less...like all the scratchers on here you hide behind the internet like a bitch scared to say who you really are....and you should be afraid! You are committing a crime every single time you tattoo some poor unsuspecting person.And I'm sure the thought of actually paying taxes has never even entered your mind!! AGAIN...put up or shut up......fuckin scratcher!... and until you do I am done wasting time with you go bother someone else..T

Well the advice was free, how neat is that? He asked soem questions and I sat and talked with the dude for idk maybe an hour , not that you can learn all you need to in an hour but i guarentee he left knowing more than he did initially. What happens when a guy walks into a shop and says hey I'm tattooing some buddies any help guys? lmao you say get bent bitch we don't want you around here , and what happens? the gives his buddy an incurable disease by accident , when honestly guys and girls you coulda just said yeah i have a fuck ton of advice , the first bit being you shoudln't be doing this without proper training , the second being , keep it clean , if you can't autoclave and comon most of them don't , bleach it or alcohol, something , use disposable tubes and needles , don't carry the weight of giving your little sister HIV with you for the rest of your life because you wanted to learn to tattoo, Instead you say fuck you get out "kitchen Magician".

And you're dedicated to the views that the world has of this industry? it's laughable.

And on that same token, you can give all the advice you want man, but what happens if dude still fucks something up. Yeah, it's no doubt on him, but pointing fingers can be a real bitch when it comes back to you being the guy that said, "Alcohol or bleach it." All I'm doing is debating points that you have made on a subject the you have brought up. This have nothing to do with my personal dedication to the worldly views of the tattoo industry. At least not in this case.

Speaking of the net lol I've noticed your'e big dog net naxi round here , woohoo taz fest great work guy , read on about how to apprentice , there's one stating that any guy turning out apprentices such as you proclaim to be is without a doubt , IN IT FOR THE MONEY. And honestly dude I drew pictures for longer than 6 months before i was ever even considering being tattooed , I don't know yer buddy and maybe he put in some time , but uh 6 months? that's horrid and you helped , great work you're top dog. And coming from my point of view on the subject guy Sir it's better to at least let him know his option for being clean outside of dropping the 1400 on an autoclave , to me that's more important than saying fuck you man you know where guitar world is go get an E string or whatever .

here , taken from your beloved website . .If you are an aspiring artist, check out these links to follow past conversations about breaking into the biz. Technical questions about tattooing should be answered by the talented artist training you, any posted here will be deleted. Keep in mind that nothing about quality tattooing comes easy, cheap, or quick. Now correct me if I"m wrong but isn't it the guys doing this from home without the technical knowhow and yeah you idiot i'm well aware of what BPP's are lol but at any rate I think we're knocking heads and you're doing it to keep money in your pocket and i'm doing it to keep it real , I love this industry , I'd do it for free if I was unable to do it for money , You on the other hand Taz , i think you'd hightail it first sign of a drop in your income , because you are after all in it for some monetary gain , regardless how many toilets you've washed with toothbrushes you didn't do this because you like your profession , scratch that you like your profession because of what you gain by it , not because of what you've put into it , you seem to be after reputation , money , and fame. that's my take on you buddy

Sorry I got off my subject it's late , what i'm saying is isn't it the guys without the proper know how that you all seem to have trouble with? Not the guy that's turning out great work , ( ahem better than anything i've seen from that shop you're in) . wouldn't an easy way to fix this problem be to help these people? toss a little info their way? Maybe let them know how to at the very least keep clean? Granted cover ups are a pain in the ass in most cases due to the customer's demanding needs and the ability you're left with after someone else's fuck up. But I"m saying even for you Mr I'm not in it for the money money hungry fucker , You get paid for doing cover ups , sometimes more than for a custom, depending on how dumb your customer is am i right? But and be real with yourself man , if this guy gives someone hep , you fixing their tattoo isn't gonna change the damage he's done to the reputation of the entire industry. It's indisputable man. granted alot of these at home guys may not even be concerned with the damage they could inflict because well as I've witnessed first hand here on this forum even some of the pros are out to jsut get paid , and i'm sure there's some people , at home guys who could give a fuck less , But I'm not one , and there's a fuckton of guys like me in this state alone , that are turning out better pieces than I've seen in many of the professional shops and that could benefit this industry and all those that aspie to be a part of it much more than you self righteous reclusive fuckers that hold a grudge against the asshole that made you clean a toilet telling you that you'll be a pro one day. when maybe you oughta turn around and say hey you know what , changing the toilet paper roll or the sanitary napkin bin in the ladies room really doesn't have much to do with helping out this industry maybe I should just cut this dummy a break for the love of what i used to think this job was all about instead of tossing rocks at people who're trying to build a life ?

Shame you can't fix your wn typos too easily on a forum.

And of course you are STILL avoiding the very real point of all this...You are a scratcher tattooing ILLEGALLY....lets address that instead of attacking me and my ethics when you have not a clue ...while your conjecture is amusing at best it has no basis in reality...on the other hand you are admittedly committing a crime every time you tattoo.....that is FACT...not some self aggrandizing attack on a person you don't even know and you refuse to even show us any work...that speaks VOLUMES. Its painfully clear that all your rhetoric is simply a smokescreen to cover the fact that you are an amateur with no respect for the art of tattooing ....when you are dead wrong its much easier to cloak your shortcomings by attacking the integrity of those calling you out isn't it? Having been in this business for over 35 years through thick and thin and keeping my LICENSED studio open even at the expense of other important things...to have one such as you ...the lowest form of "tattooer" to even have the temerity to doubt my dedication to this art is in actuality more of a compliment than insult. While you have entertained me for a bit I find your posts repetitive and without merit...this "net nazi" has real people to talk to...you have a nice day,and keep on doing those at home tattoos and encouraging your own ilk, that is the morons of the tattoo world to continue fucking people up...we do coverups!! Thanks for the evenings entertainment whatever your name is!!...TAz

It does go without saying that there are people out there that work out of there homes that do good work, sometimes even great work. The same can be said in the prisons. I know, I was employed at one and I have seen it. But what you have to understand is that for every 1 of those guys there are 30 guys who are reposible for fucking some poor kid up, whether it is visually a hamburger job for a tattoo, or because of a transmitted diesease. And who catches the flack? Sure the guy that did it will get his. But in the big picture the tattoo industry catches the biggest bullet those are the individuals that we have a problem with, those are the individuals that keep that red flag in check over the industry. All we are trying to do is show the public that tattooing IS a sophisticated art form and not some "you to can learn over night" biz. If everyone that is in your possition gave two shits like you say that you do then the animosity level would be a bit lower. Yes, there would still be that "us vs. them" but that's competition, that's human nature.

And just as a sidebar...if you are in kansas...why is your IP in california?...Just wonderin...more smokescreen?

I still would like to see some pictures. Purely for the sake of amusement. Afterall I have two more hours of work left and the entertainment woudl be greatly appreciated. I have to make rounds now but i'll keep the computer burning for when I get back.

LMAO California , so you've resorted to attempting to find me , good job lol but i'm in wichita and I'd gladly give you the address personally , I"m not too worried about what or where I do my work ,Yes tattooing is a crime and it's mostly to blame for the State Board of Cosmetology governing the laws here IN KANSAS LOL , but it's also alot to do with the people in the industry refusing apprentices , based purely on their own insecurities for their own livliehood , not that anyone is too blame for that , I honestly dont' want anyone to take my business but they deserve a fair shot , I'm not a kid and I"m not hiding what I do , And really guy if you've got REAL people to talk to and busy yourself with why are you wasting time tracking my IP? Just a thought. And another thing if that point in this was that i'm an unlicensed tattoo artist , I wouldn't bother telling you anything lol I'd keep doing my work the way i've been doing it , YOU seem to miss my point , my point is it's hard to get into this business and if the guys in the business won't help , then i'll do it alone , I don't need you or assholes like you guss , and ok so you've been in the business 35 years , good shit i'm glad that there's people in it for the duration , well guess what i'm one of them , and you ought to reconsider the guys you're training if that art coming out of your shop is what you call worthy of making the business look good. Cause those two boys aren't worth a shit , Check out some of the more predominant people around kc , whispering danny , East Coast AL may even still be around up there somewhere but haven't heard of him for a while , Gunny was another great artist , then take a look at ol boy down at the dragon claw in olathe I'm sure he's another prodigy someone like you would have trained to mispell things on people and do , not even jail quality work, on paying customers all under the veil of a license the board of cosmetology has given him , and I'm not saying i'm the best or even close to being great , but i'm good and I'm getting better every day with every tattoo i do , know thanks to assholes like you and when i'm licensed and I own my own shop i'll condemn pricks like you and i'll make a real forum for all those budding little bastards that might just need some help setting up their rear springs , or picking out the right size coils for lining or which type of front spring to use , or what ink will stand out best for them and the type of work they're doing , int he meantime you can kiss my ass , because you're the fake money hungry prick here not me , I do this because I love it , you say you love it , you love money and fame and the reputation you get on a fucking forum for christ's sake, No one knows who you are outside of here , I'm sorry that's just the case and there are some amazing artists coming out of ks and KC not too mention the surrounding area , guess what bubba? you're not one of them and neither are the nephews or whoever it is you've taught to push ink.

Once again sorry for the typos , too numerous to fix sorry

?...You fucks are all such a joke...you don't even realize you are beein played....us pros actually WANT you to keep carvin people up ...then we get the profits from the coverups....I just wanna thank ya for makin me a couple hundred grand last year.. You keep on doin those ten dollar and a six pack tattoos...while we sit in our nice shops using real equipment to cover up your ridiculous attempts at tattooing...uh...don't give up your day job asshole....I need another new Harley this year and covering up YOUR shitty work will pay for it!...Thanks....Dumbass!...TAz LMAO you're such a fucking fake piece of shit dude , all this talk you're pretty damn hypocritical it seems , I'm in it for the industry and I love what I do one one hand and on the other you're completely disreguarding someone's attempt to be involved in this industry with a heart , Me and all these other guys on the street you call "kitchen magicians" carry more heart than you've ever owned in your life old man, YOu are a shame. And with those ethics of your's it's no wonder your'e ashamed of your own ethics , pros shop my ass , i've seen better shops in phoenix on broadway , You're a dirt poor scabber in Fucking ST. Joe. Missouri dude , what's the matter coulding' hack it in the city with the real artists? I wonder , who the fuck is Taz? I've been in KC for nearly 30 years and not once has anyone suggested I go to St. Joe to taz , where ya from boss? Who's the kids you got swinging needles up there in your little two room shack you call a clean parlor? , You're disgusting and you're one of the biggest reasons this business looks like shit in the eyes of the public not specifically you but your mentality towards others that would like to be a part of it. I'd be willing to bet the two boys working in your place are either friends , relatives , or stupid enough to pay you to train them , or to work in your shop. Or most likely a combination of both. Not in it for the money my ass , See i started coming here to check out ways to help myself be a cleaner artist and maybe meeet some peopel that had the same passion as I do for this art form, and instead I find you. Someone who's probably deterred more talent than they've embraced due to your own insecurities about your own work , which by the way i've still seen none of since you seem to be so adamant about how good of an artist I am. And this coming from you mr. net nazi tattoo queen of st joe , you're a shitstain on the industry and I pray god has mercy on your corrupt soul when he blesses the rest of the world with your untimely death you fuck. P.S. and get a new IP tracer you old dolt, your's don't work for shit. I'm in Wichita ask for Princess Jer i'm sure I'll be around taking money from idiots like you.

You'd think for a couple hundred grand you could afford something more than a barber's chair to let your boys tattoo from huh Guss? never forget where you came from , cause it will always be a part of what you are. Gutter

Now hold it mother fucker! I have been keeping it pretty fucking cool reading your random bitching and moaning about the Big Bad Man not giving you any dues you think you deserve. If you feel the need to voice your opinion on a PUBLIC forum then by all means feel free to type away. That is your right. We can debate all you want and probably never reach a common ground, mores the pity. But when you make some candy ass remark insulting MY friends by saying they aren't worth a shit you had best back the fuck up. You would be wise to smack all mighty God himself then to make that mistake again. Put that on your list of kitchen advise.

My god I do believe you grew enough nuts to threaten me. lmao , is that because i've insulted your friend by using my own opinions and beliefs? well you can go fuck yourself too how's that Guss?

And as I've stated before , I don't want you or anyone else to give me a fucking thing, I'll make it with or without you , but it'd be nice to see at least a semblance of unity among enthusiasts such as the artists and the clients. But you and your buddy there seem to have transgressed past civility to a place we like to call threatenedville, If I"ve lied to you or said something untrue about your dear friend I'm sure he'll be man enough to stand on his own two feet. But honestly after all , i've only stated my feelings and my beliefs on this matter , fuck what you think I'm telling you how i feel. Quite frankly that's a bit more important to me , and well for some reason putting my own feelings first and making a conscious decision to act upon these feelings makes me feel like a human , so go fuck yourself lol i'm ont concerned , it's great , You're not here to discuss the pros and cons of tattooing and apprenticings, you want to argue because you feel threatened or you feel that i've threatened your friend and i'm sure that there is a forum somewhere for your type of behavior but i'm also quite certain it is not this one.

Opinions and beliefs are one thing but to bring up two guys that have nothing to do with anything that you have posted tonight is pussy and bullshit. If they posted regularly on this forum I would simply let them reply to it, but since they don't, I'm not about to let some dude pissed off at the tattoo world talk shit on them. That would be like me making some blasted comment about your kids. It's just not cool man, not cool at all.

call your senator

Well I'm sure , you being a friend of the man in questionand all , you've seen the two fella's work ? Let's just say you have. It's so so , nothign spectacular and if this is the type of people he'd like to train to represent the industry so be it ,it is his right. But his slandorous attempts at my viability as an artist kinda leaves him open to attack if you will. Look at the triquetra , i assume you know what that is , it's common among the celts and zeppelin fans , among wiccans and other sorts of course as well. Well it's crooked , If you can't see it , then I hope to god ( for the industry's sake) you're a collector not an artist. AND if this is the work he's trained someone to do , let alone post on a public site for the world to see , then my statement remains unchanged he's shameful and has no right training anyone, especially if he's so concerned with the image it will portray to others. I'm not saying they're horrible artists just not something i'd put my name on, And coming from me , someone who's had to learn virtually everything I know about the art alone , it means alot.

...So with all that being said, if you want to keep debating tattoo politics, cool. I have a half an hour before I head home. But if you want to call it a night that's just as equally dandy with me too.

I wanted to not make this about me guy , this topic seems to be more about why is the industry such a bitch to get into. If i remember correctly and i'm sure you can look up there and check this out , I"m not the one trying to track IP's and shouting out complete bullshit being hypocritical when it comes to my own ethics. I truthfully think the pros in the business ought to be a bit more easily fourth coming with information that could help the laymen. I'm not saying train someone for free , but at the very least I think it could not hurt our industry or the pocket book of the truly good artists, to make at home or even half assed sterilization procedures and ways to go about them available easily to the people who are not passionate about the industry but at the very least may take the time to scar these dumb fucks up without destroying their health. Like i've said before , fixing their tattoo won't cure their HIC or HEPC.

Then being who you are and having learned the way you have then you would know that not everyone gets his or her shit right the first, second, or third time....Celtic knots are a pure bitch anyway. Very very rarely have I seen anyone get it right.... The point is that he did it the very best he could, to his ability. But on the same hand man, I think its shitty that you can give a critique on a persons work but won't allow us to do the same for yours.

And like your friend said he's made what " a couple hundred grand" man coming from damn near anyone's point of view I'll tell you how to use a pressure cooker and some alcohol for a couple hundred grand , NO FUCKING PROBLEM RIGHT? No this won't prevent any cross contamination but it would greatly decrease the amount of incurable diseases caused by amateur tattoo artists.

NO and i understand your side completely i believe. I hate knotwork , it's one of the biggest pains in my ass PERIOD and trust me some things it took me way more than three times to figure out how to do it right , but with the proper training aka apprenticeship, you can learn to draw the most ornate knotwork one has ever seen. And i'm not saying i'm like King Knotwork or something , dude attacked my verbally i responded with truths and my own personal beliefs , he was using bullshit , big difference in my book.

But like I said, for every 1 person who is passionate about the art and have no other choice but to start in their kitchen there are 30 more behind him who are blasting away at someones skin with a bic pen tube, tape player motor, a guitar string, and some inda ink mixed with some soot. And it is those guys that cause the artists on the "other side of the fence" to have a very heavy guard up.

I understand I'm the same way towards these morons but they continue to be morons until they've been shown a better way If you have yahoo I can show you some of my work

If you want to send me some stuff that's cool. Just click on my name above. the e-mail address is legit. Still those morons are morons for a reason. And they have friends you are morons. Handing out advise to these people, although it may "seem" like you are helping just isn't that way. It's that monkey see, monkey do mentallity. Yeah, in some places it is a bitch to get an apprenticeship, it is a bitch to own a licenced shop. ANd on the same hand the asshole mentality is a two way street as well. It will either make the person say, "fuck it." and find something else to occupy their time. Or it will cause that person to say "fuck you, I'm going to do it anyway." Which in itself then lends to "do it the right way" or do it the "fucked up/ out of spite" way. It's just one fucked up circle that will continue to keep going and going and sits very well with the one rotten apple metaphor....

...that should have read, "and those morons have friends who are morons."

YOu seem to forget about the late greats that started this fad i guess you could call it , all of society told them NO and look where it's at now? everyone's getting ink, it's beautiful , me being told NO by this prick or that or not being given any advice is only going to make me search for my knowledge harder. Not out of spite like you say but out of defiance, I want this and i'll have it one way or the other , I don't mean i'll be a tattoo guy in my home for the rest of my life , i mean one day i'll be legit and I'm going to hold my struggle against all the people that refused to assist me out of greed, by helping out anyone I can , I think if I remember right on our laws here in ks you can only apprentice one person at a time, so i'm limited in that aspect , but I'll be licensed and I'll be great , because I love what I do and it took me a long time to figure that out and doing what I love has made all the difference in my own life , spirtually , physically, and most of all mentally speaking , I am much better off doing what I love now. and i'll not stop because soem prick doesn't have the time or need for another artist in his shop , and I do understand when these people are governed by laws outside of their control I'm not a prick to everyone in a studio that can't take me on , it's the ones that refuse to take anyone who i have beef with.

I'm sure you're most likely posting a reply if not that's fine but it's time for me to go to bed I have work in about 9 hours and I prefer to be fresh lol , I still think your buddy's a piece of shit but that's all opinion, take care thanks for the conversations and I'll check in here tomorrow sometime to see how bad it got lol .

Your opinions are just that, yours. And not everyone is going to, or has to, share them.....

My opinion is thus (and Im not an artist though I own this site and a studio). We dont want any more hack artists in this business but dont mind any more true ARTISTS in this business. Before we go any further, lets see the god damn portfolios! I want to see 10 photos of everyones tattoos before we go any further. Drawing for 6 months before tattooing doesnt seem like much time, personally Id like to see every prospective tattoo artist go to art school and work in a commercial art industry for a few years before learning to put art on someone permanently. But who know you all might be the next big thing, so get those images up somewhere for all to see. And Princess Jer, I know many many talented tattoo artists that are willing to share their trade secrets with responsible tattoo artists. They are not and should not share their trade secrets with the public. The tightness is not for the business they would lose, its for the publics skin that gets hacked on. Basically, before anyone continues whining about how THEY cant break into the industry, I want to see their portfolio and we will tell them WHY its so hard...

And once again...attack me all you want...have fun with it!...If you are bad mouthing me then you aren't bad mouthing another artist...I have a pretty thick skin pal...so its all good....I'm not at all sure about who was just drawing for 6 months before tattooing but I will leave that alone ...its no one that I know. As Gabe said we know many artist and some do work from their home but not one of them would be so irresponsible as to give needles to a hack so he could sully the art. But I understand your point of view....you can't get in the biz legitimately because you live in Kansas...or well maybe it could be your attitude I know that if you did actually find work in a shop and you were found giving needles away to amateurs you would no longer have a job, Its ok though you go ahead and keep spoutng your nonsense from your little kitchen shop while I am here in my LICENSED HEALTH INSPECTED SHOP doing LEGAL tattoos You have a nice day ya hear!...TAz

Hey there Princess! I was reading over your posts cause I needed a laugh and caught a couple things I didn't on the first round...You mentioned something about my "two room" shop...man I don't know where ya get your info or what you are smokin but my studio has 5 count em FIVE rooms...not that it matters ...some of the best work I've seen came out of a little 400 sq foot shop front ...guys name was Jack... Jack Rudy...AND...ya said something about a barber chair?...Sorry pal I don't own one...as if it makes a difference what the customer sits on!....Just wanted to correct your little erros there pal!...TAz

Princess Jer, read, then reread your posts and while I admit there is some validity to some of what you say, particularily what you say about being so difficult to get someone GOOD to apprentice you, and it could be you really do have the drive, etc., I think a big part of what you posted is bullshit and your attempt to rationalize your existance and disregard for what this profession is SUPPOSED to be about. On one hand you try to impress us with your dedication and devotion to the art, then contradict yourself by telling us you'll help any scratcher you can. You also state we (the real pros) can't do anything to stop 'em, well to that I might point out that the usual reaon states such as yours PASSES Tattoo regulations is USUALLY due to what these 'home taught' assholes did. I conceed the fact that there are many folks out there who could/would do this profession 'justice' if only they could get into it the right way, by apprenticing under a GOOD tattoo artist in the first place and I'm not going into that fact with this post. The point of this post is to address your attitude and rather self serving point of view, like you stating that the MSRA has also come from licensed professional shops....the articles I have read stated the origin of those cases were in fact from non-licensed, non professional tattoos, so don't try to twist the facts to rationalize your view point. IF you have info backing your statement, post 'em for us to review. All the articles I've seen state the opposite, that the reported cases came from NON licenced tattooers like you. To begin with , I don't know how you can refer to this (Tattooing) as 'our' industry when you are NOT in fact, part of it but an outsider who seems intent upon trying to include yourself into something you are not really a part of. You're an admitted amateur who stated you basically fucked people up for 5 years using substandard equipment but seem to think the implied concept of buying better equipment changes that or the fact you still never bothered to apprentice. You offer many excuses and talk a lot of shit but it all boils down to the fact that dispite all you claim to the contrary, you are still not doing it right, you're NOT licenced in a state that requires it. You have the nerve to come onto this forum and bitch that the pros won't share info with you and that if we did THAT would help the profession, yet your 'home do-it' attitude is a fine example of why we don't- we don't OWE any of you wannabes shit and perhaps some of us WOULD help you if you assholes would come to us the RIGHT way and show some fucking respect. Not just to we who've earned our bones, been at it the RIGHT way for years and seen our profession endangered by 'scratchers', 'kitchen magicians' or whatever these ass wipes are, they are NOT concerned professionals who don't give a shit about the Art or who they hurt persuing what they seem to think is their god given right to tattoo and fuck whoever don't like it and won't listen to anything contrary to what they want to hear- like you, Princess who essentially said 'fuck you pros and the Law'. As for you saying, in reply to the first responce to your post that honesty is rare in the industry-where's that come from and have you ever sat down and even talked to a real, dedicated tattoo artist or is that just another example of you twisting fact to rationalize your bullshit. I've been involved in Tattooing over 40 years and MOST of the real, dedicated and truly serious tattoo artist I've met are among the most stand-up people you could ever hope to meet. Basically, I think your real problem is you just don't understand that some of you asswipes just don't understand what it is truly about and won't even listen when we try to explain if it involves anything you do not want to hear. Stupid comments like saying ya know people who couldn't tattoo with a real machine if their lives depended on it but could put most pros to shame- first, I doubt that secondly, even IF true, how do these assholes PROPERLY sterilize that shit between 'victims' which other peoples lives CAN depend on or doesn't that concern you, Princess? As to your saying-'Ok here my girl just read that post and said something that made alot of sense , " if someone loved and cared for their profession as much as you all say you do you'd be willing to tell anyone anything that would improve their work , regardless whether they were to apprentice in your shop or not. But as we see that's not the case with you fellas". Bullshit, but then again, coming from your girl-friend, what else would we expect? You CLAIM respect for the profession but admit you'll sell needles to anyone, what they do with them are their business and I suppose THAT is supposed to convince us how dedicated to the profession you are? Did you even think before you said some of this pathetic crap or are you simply that far out of touch with reality and/or the responcibility of this profession. Like-'To me you're shameful and it's the pros in this business that've been hurting it the most I believe.' You later state-'I honestly don't mean to disrespect anyone who's in this business' yet most of your post are mainly just that- disrespect. It's assholes like you, Princess, that cause most of us to 'play tight' I'm not going to waste any more time on you, you know all the answers anyway, right. Just keep on tattooing people illegally, I'm sure your mouth will make you very popular behind bars...Doc

..............................And then you can learn from some of the best in the business, while they're tattooing a bullseye on your bung, smart ass!!!!!

Sorry guys I've been busy , drawing. Not that I was missed for anything besides ammusement i'm sure lol but at any rate , Doctor John I do believe I'd like to speak with you privately if you have the time or would be willing to be so gracious as to grant me some spare time. If not i'll understand.

Not that I'm offering any apologies for my previous words , because I feel regret is a useless emotion it can solve nothing, but lol I think after rereading most of this forum , especially " the pros" response to my own posts, I've came to a few what you may call major realizations. I think that I can understand many of your opinions a bit clearer after rereading some of these but on the same hand I can see personality traits in you all and myself that I don't necessarily like but that's the beauty of individuality I guess. And it's good to see that in a profession that was stereotyped bikers, gang members, and ex cons. But slowly after a struggle I've only begun to take part in has the views of tattooing and the artists who apply them this art form has taken on a look of viable self expression in the eyes of society , although I'm sure there's many churchs or what have you pointing the finger to sin , but that's a different conversation alltogether. And I saw struggle meaning it is the "tightness" of the industry and the highness of standards that has brought it to this level and it's that same ideal that will carry it past. And that means that I see how some of what I said was wrong and even ignorrant. My passion led me into a heated argument where i've said things I should not have here but it happens. On my own style of tattooing I don't have much to say well ok i really do lol , I work at it , on paper , every damn day lol , and I hear alot of the old timers in this business talking about how the apprentice should practice practice practice but I never hear them stop and say you know what I still draw every damn day , maybe there's a pinnacle in everyone's artistic abilities and maybe that's what the pros or old timers have found , that place where they understand and know completely what they're capable of , and if that's the case i'm a happy fella cause I've not found that yet , anything I've set out to put on paper I have , and after loads of research and searching and reading and drawing and even some plain logical thinking , I've been capable of everything I've ever put into skin. Both my customer and I being more than satisfied sometimes even completely astounded at what the outcome has looked like. I'm not here to waste time trying to convince anyone that I'm good at what I do, but i know that I am, and as long as I prioritize my processes accordingly , being cleanliness first , I have every bit of faith I'll find the mentor out there that'll slap my ass and show me how to put my talent to good work , until then I'm on my own because I feel that I have alot of personal changes in myself to address before even the biggest prick would be willing to take me on. And thanks to you guys , especially you Doc John , I'm seeing a bit more with my eyes than before. If you took this as an apology , you're an asshole lol. But honestly thanks for the conversations.

Well You say you aren't apologizing but the personal e-mail you sent to me included an apology and as I said in my reply...That means a lot to me ...you took a step back ,took a good look and said "hey I made a mistake and I learned from it"...That impressed me!...I think you have a great passion for this art and If there is anything I can do to help you just yell man!! Thats the beauty of this forum...no censorship ...we can argue all day but still be friends and still love the art. Now as far as the old timers not continuing to better themselves ..I can only speak for my self but I draw nearly every day...and every single tattoo I do is one that I designed...thats all I do and I STILL learn something every day....I think some of us "old guys" just might fool ya Jeremy! Anyway welcome to the post AND to the family if you'd like to join us and let us know how we can help...I know you are in a bad spot there in Kansas but you can do it!!!...TAz

Hm. I just read this whole thread cover to cover (without the benefit of knowing who apologized to who privately) and I would say this. It reminds me of an old Shakespearean snippet from MacBeth that goes something like "It is a tale full of sound and fury, told by an idiot and signifying nothing". Leaves ya feeling rather empty on all accounts actually. Oh well.

I think ya hit the ole nail on the head, Daddy Rose, glad to see it weren't just me. Princess Jer, while I do notice SOME improvement in your overall recent posts, frankly I think that last little comment 'If you took this as an apology, your an asshole', just reinforces the main point of my previous post, ya still don't get the RESPECT part, do ya, Princess? Are you stoned or just fucking stupid? As to what ya said about regret being a useless emotion, oh contrare Princess, it is a learning tool, 'cuz just maybe if you learn from the shit ya regret ya won't repeat it and may become a better person. Can ya grasp THAT? It don't make ya a bitch or less of a man to own up to your mistakes, it makes ya MORE of a real man. A REAL man respects the things that deserve it, that's something I personally think you need to work on. As to you saying'Doctor John I do believe I'd like to speak with you privately if you have the time or would be willing to be so gracious as to grant me some spare time. If not i'll understand.' While I'm not too sure what you really mean, if you want to say/ask anything you don't want here on the forum, click on the link by my sign in. I may not be able to give you an immediate reply but I would reply...Doc

Ok Doc and Al...valid points as usual..I guess I am gettin mellow in my dottage or something but I am gonna resreve any opinion on Ol Princess Jer for now...I think every man/woman has the right to screw up once in a while....the man did try to slam me personally albeit not well but he did apologize...and that "asshole remark"in the last line of his post I think was meant as sardonic humor...lets talk to him for a bit and see what he is all about ok? Even though it was me that he attacked in those first posts I can get by that...maybe not forget about it altogether but I can allow the man his space to set things right and I am willing to let it go and see where this takes us...look at all the people who have started out on the wrong foot here then became valued members of our little family. I for one feel we should let bygones be indeed bygone and give this guy a chance...he could be that diamond in the rough....just my opinion though...maybe its the medication?...I always seem to get uncharacteristically mellow after a chemo treatment..LOL!!!..T.

Here, here!!

Okay. Shit, Legacy turned out to be a diamond... Keeps could have too.

Wow! I am new to this site and this is the first topic i read and, Wow! It seems that the artists on both sides of the "professional' fence have some good points about being a professional. I know Im new but this topic touches close to me as I am what you guys call a kitchen magician. I have done a formal apprenticeship that was cut short a little early due to some legal problems i had, but, i have learned just about EVERYTHING about being a tattoo artist. I KNOW I do excellent work. Im no hack, but I do tattoo in my kitchen,and at tattoo parties. I use disposable tubes, brand new needles on every piece and have taken seminars on sterilization and blood borne pathogens. I use professional equipment and I buy all my supplies from a reputable supply company. The problem is, like many people posted on this topiic is that "professional artists" dont want to open any doors for other artists, whether it be because of arrogance or fear. No artist is going to admit that they fear another artist, thats understandable, but to look down on artists who are good, clean artists because they dont work in a shop or are licensed is kind of fucked up I think. I hear comments all the time about not being clean and sterile. In my opinion, and I know Im going to hear it for saying this, thats a bunch of bullshit. You so called "pros" always try to throw that up to an artist who works at home and is trying to get to where you are. Tell me this, how sterile is the environment at a tattoo convention held in a hotel? Why can "professional artists" do tattoos at a convention and you tell other artists that they shouldnt, or better yet, it's illegal to tattoo in their kitchen.

Kingkreations, since your in my general area, I'd like to know who you apprenticed under and how long. To try to address your post...one of the reasons I personally look down on what we call 'kitchen magicians' is that most of them don't really know anywhere near as much as they should and the vast majority I've heard about apparently do not know or practice truly safe procedures. I guess there are bound to be exceptions but in my 24 years of having my own studio, I have yet to hear of a single one but far more often hear a lot about the many who don't. I've even spoken to some who THOUGHT they were doing everything properly, only to find they were actually missing SOMETHING important and even one such mistake can be potentially dangerous. The most previlant mistake many make is that because they use disposable needles/tubes so they think that's about all they need to worry about, which is far from true. Then there's the part of some of the pigments they use,rarely knowing which are GOOD/Safe as most 'kitchen magicians' don't really KNOW, some don't even care as long as they can get their hands on it. Most reputable suppliers won't sell to anyone 'outside' the profession but there are plenty of suppliers who are selling second rate equipment which is, of course, also a part of the overall 'problem'. Most 'kitchen magicians' are also more inclined to do almost or any tattoo on anyone, frequently with no regard for their age, how drunk-stoned they are just for the buck and with little or no regard to what that 'tattoo' can cause for that person later in life. I admit there are possible exceptions, of course. As to the statement that 'professional artist' don't want to open doors for other artists, whether it be because of arrogance or fear. No artist is going to admit that they fear another artist, thats understandable, but to look down on artists who are good, clean artists because they dont work in a shop or are licensed is kind of fucked up I think.' As an old timer who can remember when there were less than a half dozen Tattoo Studios in the metro Detroit area and now know there's at least 2 dozen, or more,obviously I find problems with that statement. Besides, as we both know, there are a number of studios not even owned/operated by artist in the area so that 'arrogance/fear' aspect doesn't really hold in that regard. Some would love to have a good artist work for them, that's how they make their money, they personally don't tattoo. Some, as you should know, have people working for them that do shit work so they'd be glad to put someone good to work for them because they could make even more money. Another aspect I'm not certain you are taking into consideration is the facts that the economy locally has taken a serious nose dive in the past decade AND the area also has far more people looking for work than we can provide work for, competition for those who are still employed and can afford a professional tattoo does unfortunately play a part in the picture as well. I realize that sucks and may well be holding some talented/capable people back but it's still a factor, perhaps especially in this area. Which is also 'why' so many pros have a problem with 'kitchen magicians' who don't have any added expenses to speak of, don't pay studio rent, utilities, insurance,personal property taxes (or income tax on their income from Tattooing) and as a result, invariably 'work' for a lot less than we can/will and thereby are taking money out of our hands, not to even mention the substandard work most of 'em do. As I do not know you personally, I can't actually say how good or safe you personally are, but I certainly know I personally do not know of nor have I heard of any 'kitchen magician' that really does do safe/good work. Conversly however, I frequently see the work 'they' do and know of the many infections,and have heard more than a few cases of suspected transmission of Hep attributed to 'them', getting busted for using unsafe equipment and for tattooing minors and those who are known to trade tatts for drugs and/or sexual favors or tattoo people who were not even concious (sp?)when the tatt was performed. That in turn makes things considerably more complicated for the professional studios who end up taking the heat and get the local officials creating even more problems by enacting city ordanances/rules which don't really address the problems, just make it harder and/or more expensive to run a studio. As to 'Tell me this, how sterile is the environment at a tattoo convention held in a hotel? Why can "professional artists" do tattoos at a convention and you tell other artists that they shouldnt, or better yet, it's illegal to tattoo in their kitchen.', personally, I've never been much of an advocate for getting a tattoo at a convention. However, I do know that MOST, if not ALL of them require rather high safety standards, the artist or their crew bring their own sterile equipment, lights, etc. and usually do a pretty thorough job of disinfecting their work area BEFORE they set-up, start to work, something I just don't think many, if any, 'kitchen magicians' do or even seriously think about, let alone those who go to other peoples homes to do tattoos. Another aspect you should think about, a Studio and/or professional can be sued if we do anything 'wrong' and lawyers will/have persued those cases as they figure they could win/collect from a 'business', they won't even bother with 'kitchen magicians' as they aren't likely to get any money. In my almost 42 years in the profession, I have NEVER heard of any 'scratcher', 'kitchen magician', etc., EVER being taken to court. Believe me, I know and realize there ARE people out there who could/would be an asset to the profession who can't get their foot in the door, so to speak but I think there's more to it than most 'outsiders' realize, it's not quite as simple as you state in your post. Again, I'd like to hear who you apprenticed with and for how long. We'd also like to see some photos of 'the excellent work' you do...Doc

Lets see some tattoos!

Thoughtful post. I don't like the idea of conventions in hotels. I'd never get a tat that way. Just doesn't make sense to me, cause I don't see how you COULD be sterile in that kind of environment. Welll, just my thoughts.

how do I post pics? I got a ton of work.

Kingkreations, as to 'how you can post pics', can't offer any help there, but hopefully SOMEONE else knows, come on folks, help the guy post...Doc

Post up a link or some such... website? myspace? some sorta freebie site thingy?

Doctor Bob, very well said, and I agree with everything you said. To address some of you r queations, I apprenticed under Chris and Mike Bollerud at Suicide Kings Tattoo Parlor in Belleville MI. I met Chris in November of last year and he wanted to learn how to airbrush( ive been airbrushing for 15 years) so I taught him what I know in exchange for his knowledge. He sold me a tattoo kit that was brand new and he told me to practice on some grapefruit so I went home that night and messed around on a grapefruit, when I brought it back the next day, he flipped out, saying that he couldnt believe that I had never picked up a machine before. I came to the shop the nest day and Chris said "come on, youre gonna tattoo me, I did one on his leg and he watched and walked me through it and he continued to give me praise about my ability. Anyway, I didnt do one of the apprenticeships you know of that consists of a lot of running around and being a slave so to speak, I was in the shop EVERY DAY, watching for technique, asking questions, and learning all the very important processes to be a clean and sterile artist. I was allowed to begin taking customers after only about 4 months of learning. As I said, I had some legal trouble which caused me to have to leave the shop, and right now I am not able to go out and work, so I do some work at home. I have an area in my hoome that I have dedicated to tattoo work I use disposable tubes and brand new needles and I use eternal ink. I am able to buy my equipment from professional company bacause of my affiliation with my teacher. I was taught not to ever tattoo an intoxicated person, or a minor even if their parent is there, and I would never even try to do work that I dont feel I can accomplish a nice tattoo that the person getting it can be proud to show. Hell thats how I get most of my work, because Im not cheap, I charge shop prices because I feel like I do shop quality work, in some cases better than you can get in a shop. Where are you located in MI, I would be really pleased to meet you and see your studio. I also need some work done on my left arm and I am looking for a good artist to do it. For now Ill see if I can get you guys some pics up. Later,

Hey, this guy actually sounds somewhat intelligent....................hmmmmm, is this too good to be true? TCE

Like I have been saying its about respect and this guy obviously has some...however did ya all see something very wrong in his post?....The "I do tattoo parties"? There is NO way to do a tattoo party professionally period...Did you guys miss that one?/...T

Oop, see, now there you go.......................I knew it, I missed something!!

I never said I did "professional" tattoo parties. I did say that I do them. Does that mean that I dont know what Im doing? Does that mean that I do not follow the correct procedures to perform a professional quality tattoo? Does that mean that my equipment is not sterile? I think a tattoo convention is a just a glorified tattoo party, that being said, do you think say, Bob Tyrrell is not a professional because he does guest spots at them? Dont get me wrong, im not trying to fan the flames,because for every point I make, you can make one. Im just trying to take some of the heat away from us artists who follow the correct procedures and take pride in what we do.

howdo people. I was the one apologizing , I apologized to amabn I personally attacked verbally , in as personable a manner as I could accomplish here. That's what I done I'm big enough to admit my mistakes. At any rate I'm broke now lol no more tattooing , not on anyone but me anyhow. You can't tell me I shouldn't be able to do that damn ya. I had a buddy that was a "kitchen Magician" and kept trying to get apprentices by taking a crap ass portfolio of pictures with tattoos that he had done in them and never could figure out why he was shunned. I didn't either for awhile till talking to the guys here like Taz mainly and Doc as well. And really taz you old guys always surprise me and I've learned not too underestimate anyone. I've personally never taken any pictures of tattoos i've done to a professional artist , and for all you who thought I had no respect for it , you'd be wrong. Cause I do realize it'd be an insult to them and to the industry itself. Now here in wichita , sorry if any of you fellas are reading this but apparently they're offering an apprentice position to basically anyone who can scrub up 1500 bucks to start , that to me is just as disgraceful as a hackjob taking his work to a pro and asking to be taught. As for me I can come up with 1500 and probably be licensed through this place in a year No Problem, but it falls back on what I learned in Kansas City , and I can't say for certain but it probably holds true across the board. What I learned in KC was that being a newly licensed tattooist up there the quality of work you were doing isn't what brings you your work immediately , there's just not enough of your art on the people for them to be coming to you based on that. The majority of your work comes fomr the word getting out about WHO it was you apprenticed under. If you learned from the pro scabber out in olathe , no names I gotta at least do that, you're gonna be doing flash art for the next 5 years till you can shake his name from your back. And that's mainly the reason why I wouldn't even bother apprenticing under this place here in wichita , Even as much as I'd love to be licensed and that much closer to running my own gig , I'm not foolish enough to say i've learned everything about tattooing but I think I've learned almost all that I can alone and if I have to sstep outside my own mind to get help I'd like to think I was getting the best help and teaching available to me. Guess that's what it's all about sacrifice a battle to win the war, let joe blow pick up his license and open a shop 5-10 years before me , When it's my turn I'll know twice as much as the guy that rushed to get licensed not looking ahead and I know that the majority of the tattoos i've done came from my own artistic ability , it was the knowledge I learned that made them better and better, Da Vinci was brilliant but without the proper knowhow he'd have made that little man with his arm's spread look like a stick figure, if he were to tattoo it , sorry I'm gonna get myself lost in that one for a sec. Ok well I'm gonna go think abot da vinci and draw some more.

Jeremy you and I both know the laws in Kansas just suck and are designed to keep people out of the business....I am not sure WHAT I would do in your position , but I do know I would be fighting to get where I wanted to be and I'm sure you are...as I said before If I can do anything to help...well ya got my e-mail!...TAz

Oh yeah of course Taz. Eventually , lol , that's a long word because it usually means a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGG time. but i've been on the wrong side , still doing whta I love , and I guess it was seeing how much that does for your spirit ya know? I mean I'm happier than a puppy with two peters when I see my art on people. And I think it was alot to do with you and talking with you. And then it kinda hitme that Every tattoo I did could have been way better , and that's what i'm trying to do now. And I will, eventuallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy lol

Jeremy, ya know........................there's always the long, arduous, petition route................one stinking county at a time. Or, you could just move. TCE

I think the petition of\for a change in some of the laws here wouldn't be a bad idea. As far as using that as a way to get into a shop, I just don't think that's a good way , I'd feel awkward going to a guy and saying yeah I helped make it easier for me to get in a shop wanna hire me now? lol ,

I think the petition of\for a change in some of the laws here wouldn't be a bad idea. As far as using that as a way to get into a shop, I just don't think that's a good way , I'd feel awkward going to a guy and saying yeah I helped make it easier for me to get in a shop wanna hire me now? lol ,

I sincerely think the laws in Kansas suck...I was working in westport when they were putting them togethter and when I found out what they had planned I said,"fuck you I'm out"...as I said the whole thing was NOT devised to protect the public...it was designed to give the established guys territorial rights and keep new people out ...that is unless they bribed or kissed the ass of one of the mucky mucks who make the decisions...its my understanding that the people who decide who to let in are actually shop owners in part anyway...am I wrong about that Jer?...thats like leaving the fox watching the chicken house!!...Its unfair at best and unconstitutional at worst...If I were you I would be making war in a very loud very public manner on these unfair laws!.....I think the term "tattoo mafia" is fitting in this case!...TAz

Alright, so I posted this on a different thread already, but seeing as how this is for us beginners, I figured I'd repost it here in the thread with a sticky. Hell Kansas, you're even mentioned in it :), and I spose I want to add a few things to the end too. "Just to put in my two cents. I really don't think taz, doc, and the rest of them are "hating" on anyone, nor are they trying to say that you guys don't have talent. They are just trying to stress the importance of SAFE, CLEAN tattooing. Again, they aren't saying that it is impossible to be clean and safe outside of a professional studio, just that finding a safe/clean environment outside of one is a very rare thing. The difference is that a licensed studio has regulations to follow. PROVE that they are not following those laws and they will lose their license, be subject to law suites, ect. A scratcher does not have those laws to follow, and as such there is no obligation to keep up your environment...not to mention the other obvious difference, which is, licenced professionals are licensed, so there are less of them compared to unlicenced kids who just pick up a machine and think they are good to go. So we all understand how important this aspect is yes? The problem is, 9/10 scratchers aren't going to learn that on their own. They aren't going to know exactly how to sterilize anything unless somebody shows them...I'm sorry but there is only so much you can really learn from a book. If you think you can learn everything there is to know from reading a book and trying to apply that knowledge to somebody...then you're a fucking retard who is in denial and really needs to find earth really quick, because the reality of this situation is, somebody needs to teach you. It's not about teaching you how to draw or create better art. Nobody is contending your artistic abilities. Unfortunately, art is only HALF of tattooing. The other half is, like I said, Safety, and Cleanliness, and CARE for your customer which you are obviously NOT giving if you are too lazy to get a fucking license, open a STERILE, licensed shop, and create the shit legally. If you care about tattooing so much that you think you need to teach yourself and scratch up your dumbass friends, then you should care enough to do the work! Now I hear most of you saying, "nobody will let me in, they are scared" and in the same sentence go off on how good your art is. Again, get back down to earth. If your art is so fanfuckingtastic, somebody is going to apprentice you. There is SO much artistic competition in this world it's not even funny. You think you're a great artist? Well so is johnny, and danny, and betty, and sue, and bobby...and the list goes on forever. I remember reading about the guy sitting in where was it? Kansas...and that they have shitty laws there. Obviously this doesn't apply to every single person, but if tattooing is your passion, and thats what you really want to do for the rest of your life...then by God make it your life, and MOVE if you have to. If the circumstances are such that you can't move, well look, not trying to be mean, but if you can't make it happen, stop bitching. I've only been floating around the forum for a few weeks now, and I'm already tired of people claiming that all the professional tattooists are "haters" just trying to keep your poor self out of the business. I can't even imagine how tired the regulars are of this idiocy. Look...there may be alternative methods these days. Great, it's one more way to learn, and one more reason why you should work your ass off until you can get an apprenticeship, and then work your ass off some more. You aren't going to learn how to operate on somebody's heart through a book. Sure you can read about it, sure you can watch it on t.v...but that doesn't mean you can /do/ it. In any field there are always exceptions, but for every exception, there are 10 thousand people behind you that /aren't/ an exception, and never will be...give these people better examples of how to do things. Because as a teen myself, I know we suffer from the "it won't happen to me" syndrome...and the truth is, it can, and it will if you don't do things right. I've said just about all I can say about this...and I'll admit, it was mostly for me to vent ;). But I hope that you "scratchers" will just please, please take the advice of these guys. They've been in the business for /years/, they know what they are talking about. Stop being paranoid that everyone is just out to fuck you over. And remember that good ol' saying..."anything worth doing, is worth doing right" -)eremy- " This time wasn't just for venting, but now some things are really just starting to hit home for me. I want you to remember my name. I'm 19 years old. I've never touched a tattoo machine. I know jack shit about the mothods of sterilization, let alone tattooing. I've got one tattoo, a tribal at that. So you can safely say I'm as fucking fresh as you can get. I'm going to get into this business. And you can bet your scratching ass that I'm going to do it the right way. I'm not going to whine about not being let in. I'm not going to make excuses, blaming it on my location, my kid, my wife, what have you...you made your choices, that's your problem. I'm tired of seeing 28 year old adults bitch like my 19 year old peers. I'm tired of my 19 year old peers looking for handouts. You guys always want to point your finger at somebody when the only person you have left to blame is yourself. So yeah, I'm fucking disapointed in my lazy ass generation. In response, Im going to be the example. And I'm going to prove that there are still respectful, hard working, determined kids out there. It may take me 10 years, shit it may take me 20...but I'll get there. And hell, I'll even give you some more hope, I'm only a mediocre artist at best, and I'll be the first to post it! http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xl_illusion_lx/album?.dir=acd6&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/xl_illusion_lx/my_photos So, you wanna be a tattoo artist? So do I -)eremy (ineberry-

i just want to say that i'm a completely self taught tattoo artist,and i tattoo out of my home. i have every thing in my home that you will see in any tattoo shop and alot of stuff that some tattoo artist are to cheap to buy. everything i use is sterlized or one time use products and i think that tattoo artist who bad mouth people like me can kiss my ass,i'm just glad that not all tattoo artists are such jealous pricks, because i've been recemended by several established tattoo artists who say i'm better than most who have recieved years of training.not everyone is in this business just to get rich, i enjoy the look on peoples faces more when they see their new tattoo for the first time.

As was there are exceptions to the rule. Check my other post for my wife's setup at home and here for here work: http://www.myspace.com/44547602 Comments and questions welcome, but please don't rant. She's tried getting into a shop and still trying. Going to be calling and knock down more doors this week. Every time it's the same either (we don't need any apprentices or just no) Some of it's genuine some of it's because she is a short tubby native american female. P.S. If you know anyone hiring in San Antonio drop me a line.

Hey Keaz....Your wife does good solid wprk...no doubts there pal!! But why in the home? Open up shop!...She is certainly better than most of the artists in shops in my town!!...thanks ofr posting ...keep in touch!!...TAz

Guy's I am sorry for the following post, This has just Pissed me off in many different ways First of all Jer "Who in the hell do you think you are?" Let me tell you something, This is a life lesson, I am so sick of the snot nosed kids thinking everyone owes them a fucking living. Life does not work that way. Now I am not a Tattooist, just a lover of the great works I have seen, I am a professional, I work in the computer field, I started by delivering boxes to customers and crawling around the filthy floors to hook up computers, because I showed interest in higher levels, I had a guy mentor me and show me the Higher level of networking, and Administrations. That got me noticed and a few good words from the people teaching me got me education. I have been blessed with a 20 year career in my industry. Now you say what does that have to do with anything, My ex ran her own Nail salon, we scrimp and saved for her to go to school, and when she got her license, she was mentored by a lady whom taught her alot, and also showed her how to run a salon, She was glad to get this knowledge, as she was even reconized in a national Fashion magazine for her nails. Then the illigals decided they could make a buck and use forced labor to do it cheeper, and some idiot customers went that direction, only to cry to my wife that they had infections, or no nail bed left, see a simple proceedure can cause a lifetime of heartache. anyway my wife after years of working 12-14 hour days, could no longer do this, why not because the illigals, but because her hands just couldn't stand the pressure anymore. You rag on all the professionals here, but they have earned thier due's whether or not they do flash, or custom work, they still EARNED IT! Today a guy was arrested for Manslaughter because he did Lipo on a woman in his basement!!! You are No better than he is, Until you have that license you are not a Tattooist in any shape or form. You bitched about cost, These guy's have to make a living, don't spite them for that. My tattooist provides me a service, and for that I will pay him a fair wage, But I did pay him for a service, to keep me healthy, safe, and to provide me the best Tattoo that he can do. I believe he did. I would never even think to save a couple of bucks to go someone's house that was not licensed to practice thier trade. Taz, and all the pro's out there I am sorry for this post but it just really got under my skin!!!! Keep up the Qualified work you do for us. Blacktri

Blacktri99, Personally, I don't understand why you are 'sorry' for your post, for one thing, you are most certainly entitled to express your point of view and for another, in my opinion, your right anyways. I too get fed up with what's more often than not just a lame excuse for why their not doing it right. I myself thank you for your post, it's nice to see someone not involved in the profession able to see things from 'our side' and post their comments. Good post and NO apology required...Doc

whitescorpion...I'm going to say this one more time and that's it. I'm getting tired of you people ignoring this single point...and it's the same thing you guys always bring up. it is not about how fucking GOOD YOU ARE! That's not the point. It's about making sure you are doing it correctly, cleanly, and legally. You could be leonardo divinci, and it wouldn't mean two shits if you end up giving people hep/hiv/ect. Listen, I'm not saying you aren't being sterile, because I don't know how you run your shit...I'm just saying...you guys gotta stop trying to make a comeback for these statements with, "well I'm better than most of the professionals out there".

Guys listen ...we have heard it a thousand times from guys like whitescorpion...they all say how fucking good they are but they never seem to work in a shop and never have a license...so I'll say it one more tiring time...put up or shut up...lets see that work ya do in your home man! And then maybe explain why we should have to be licensed and you are so fucking special that you are exempy from the law. Until then shut the fuck up. Blacktri...no apology neede at all...you are just mirroring the same things we have said over and over on this forum...But thanks man!.T

AS AN ARTIST, AND ADMIRER OF THE ART OF TATTOOING WHAT I CAN SAY IS I SEE ALL ANGLES OF THIS DEBATE.I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMEONE IS FUSTRATED BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE A RENOWNED TATTOOIST. I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE REAL PROS ARE COMING FROM . I WANNA BE A GREAT TATTOOIST ONE DAY , BUT THE REALISTIC PART IS THAT IT MIGHT NOT HAPPEN OR IT MAY. AFTER READING ON THE HISTORY AND THE DANGERS OF DISEASES THAT CAN PASS ON SHIT I WONT DO A KITCHEN JOB FOR THAT REASON.THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DID NOT KNOW EXSISTED UNTIL I STARTED READING. YEAH I HAVE MY MACHINE BUT I RATHER PRACTICE ON SKIN SHEETS UNTIL IF GOD PERMITS I CAN GET IN .CUZ BEING REAL WHERE I COME FROM A BAD TAT OR DISEASE GIVEN TO SOMEONE CUZ OF BAD STERILASATION WILL GET YOU SHOT.

Thanks for that post Hexx....I would rather think that you would want to practise good sterility because of professional ethics rather than if you didn't you may be shot...but I guess one reason is as good as another! By the way..typing in capitals means you are shouting ...STOP IT!

i just wanted to add one more thing, maybe if most tattoo artist weren't such tattoo snobs and so tight liped about their craft maybe i would have taken an apprenticeship and maybe i would be working in a tattoo shop. if there was a tattoo shop in my area that is.

Just keep ignoring those real questions man...you make our point for us!

You know I am amazed at how these people can try to justify themselves, I do not understand how they cannot see they are hurting this industry by keeping it in the back alleys, and seedy backrooms, and keeping the Tattoo industry having to deal with peoples attitudes on how tattoo's are so bad. The professionals who are trying to legitimize this profession, and make people aware that there are High quality standards in Sanatation, and overall health of thier clients, are having to deal with jackasses like you who are after the quick buck, be honest with yourselves and quit bitching at the pro's who owe you nothing, nor should they. You all say it's about the art, but if that's the truth you would do everything correctly to help the shady side of the business go away. You can call me a suck up or whatever, but you know I may want another tat someday and I would like to know I can go to a pro's shop and get the care, and quality I deserve, that my friends is the love of the art. Blacktri

Maybe every tattoo shop should have a sign out front: Apprentice Wanted: Talent Required (Bring Non-tattoo Art Portfolio) This way when some wants to be an artist bad enough they might go about it the right way.

As an add-on at least then future apprentices would know who's willing to train. P.S. My wife would have gladly brought her extensive non-tattoo portfolio to a prosective tattoo master. Drawings(pencil, pen, pastels, and scratchboard), Ceramics (A hand scuplted head named George, potters wheel articles, and poured items custom painted), paintings (Watercolor, acrylics, an one nice oil)... and the list goes on.. but at every turn it was either no or we only wanted experienced tattooists, or not hiring now. This went on at a Dozen plus shops. It wasn't until she left a business card stating "Free tatoos" on back it stated seeking apprenticeship was left on a company vehicle at a Wal-mart she got a call back. That turn into about a 4 week hell. They told her while she was tattoing someone during the interview she didn't know what she was doing. An artist of the shop took over the tattoo and butchered it. (his section is blurry and scarred and hers was cleaner(not perfect but fixable). She took the apprenticeship job and was there a month and told she wasn't trying hard enough. She was there before the other artists left after them. She did twice the tattoos on honey dew melons they did on skin during any given day. For 4 weeks straight his answer to all her questions was "You know like that." If she knew like that she would not have needed an apprenticeship. He should have never had an apprentice only took her as one because the owner forced him. He was fired a month after for missing too much work after they picked up a new artist at a convention. Hmmmm... and she wasn't trying hard enough. That shop had two other much better artist but they were the "cash cows" and didn't have time to teach her, but she learned more from them than she did from him. On top of all that was the drama, The shop had space for three artists. She was given one spot, and the artist the other two. She was move to a table in the room after they hired a third and eventually forced to move to a supply room away from her artist. How could they watch each other like that? They moved out of that shop to a different one three months later. The only reason they took her on which I found out talking to one of their artists was so a "local" scratcher wouldn't be taking their business. They cared more about the money than the industry. To all potiental artists: Take your non-tattoo portfolio with you to the best shop you can find. Get prior training in maintaining a sterile enviroment. This can be studied on-line. Take this certification with you. Find out which artist is going to apprentice and then if he doesn't bring it up to the owner immediately if nothing is done, learn what you can but look for another shop. You don't want to stay at a shop that's holding you back. I gave this advice to my wife, but she refused to listen. She WOULD be a full professional tattooist right now if she hadn't been stubborn and judged all shops on the basis of a that first apprenticeship she encountered. To shops: You may not need the help, but getting an apprenticed trained helps you and the industry. An unkowlegeable untrained scratcher with out proper instruction in at least sterile technique hurts both. You don't know where the next great artist is going to come from. The industry needs a shake-up. It's need a change. One bad scratcher can harm the local industry, but tight a**ed shop create a lot more scratchers. Don't want scratchers ruining your business then do something about it or shut the f*** up!

P.S. Want to see what an artist(of every other type but tattoos) can do on their own.... This is her latest work and likely last scratch she going to be looking for a proper short term apprenticeship. She doesn't need much. http://www.kreationz.net/latest.jpg

hey taz, just wanted to check out some of your work, but don't know your website, can you help.

http://www.paintedangel.com has his artists' work. A link to his MySpace is there and shows some of his work in his pics on myspace. It's in the links section. I don't know any more than that. KeAz P.S. How do you post pics here?

Wow...i have been reading through this forum for the last hour or so, and thought i should join in. I am currently learning to tattoo. I presently tattoo from home. I am being taught by my best friend who has been tattooing for 16 years, 15 of those in various shops including his own. He is about to start a trip overseas so is presently not in a shop so i must tattoo from home. He is teaching me all the sterilization techniques and of course is very adamant that i follow correct procedures as if i was in a shop. I first had to learn about the basics, it was kind of like being at school, i had homework (and still do) i have in the last few weeks started with some small pieces and he has been critiquing my work and assisting me in areas that i need to refine. He has also introduced me to suppliers so that i can use the right equipment and supplies. When he finishes his trip he will be setting up a new shop, but i want to learn as much as i can before that happens so i have to work from home. It would be dishonest to try and get into another shop only to leave in 6 months and to be honest i dont have 10k which is the general cost to get into a shop as an app here. Anyway i will be around on the forum, i hope to chat to some of you in the future. cheers ran www.rmd.net.au www.paulysinc.com

As an addendum to the lively debate on this thread, Princess Jer (Jeremy) will be undertaking an apprenticeship at Painted Angel Tattooing starting in February of 2007. Although he and I had some extremely opposing views we think Jeremy will be a great aadition here at the Angel due to his dedication and passion for tattooing!

I wondered this too. It could be so many reasons. Sometimes I think "SOME" artisits are just snotty and don't want to help people, and I really think it's to protect their profession. You don't want somebody (I don't know why everyone says it has to be a 'kid') going about doing shitty tattoos and giving Tattoo ARTISITS bad names. But this has been going on since Tattooing came to the westren world I'm sure! So far I've had positive aid from tattoo artisits and not so helpful aid from another. All I'd like from 'them' is kindness and understanding. I HATE the people who look at you like you're a complete MORON and shouldn't even be stepping foot in a Tattoo shop, let alone be seeking out proffesional help in your quest to become one!.... That just irks me... I'm going out of my way to achieve something I would call a 'dream' and they tend to put you down like a dog... (Bad experiences? NO!? haha) I am a twenty somethign FEMALE, who just recently became a mother and moved out into the country without a drivers licence.... and the only SHOPS you have to choose from is in a small town, with a handful of 4... three shitty and the other good... (I'm slowly working on maybe getting an apprentiship with the GOOD one. He's a PUP so he's not sure about bringing on someone... and I think he was a bit intimidated by me. He wasn't sure if he could waste his time with a tall skinny blonde girl with not a tattoo in sight! LOL.) I am going to be a GUILTY Kitchen tattooer (actually it won't be in a kitchen but it's own personal room) and I am doing it for my own personal joy and my own personal use. I don't want to hurt anyone or do some shitty ass job on anybody and I don't want to do it for the money... So therefore my quest into Tattooing isn't for the cash, or the glory or just some kinda hobby... And if I want to punch holes in my body as some would say "carlessly"... even though I've gone the miles to learn about strelization from Artisits....(I have soo much MORE to learn and one day I hope to get taht Chance!) then that's my business. I'm going to protect myself and if Tattoo artisits have teh right to protect themselves aswell... I think I just started rambling. SORRY! ~Kitty~

i have been a working tattooer in several shops and i can see both sides of this debate . i was just forced to quit the shop i was in due to extremely shady business practices by the owner (who doesn't tattoo) and now im forced to tattoo out of my home until i can find a new shop. i do however have my own ultrasonic and autoclave and only use sterile equipment. you just can't compromise on safety.i feel like im still committing a sin by tattooing at home but i have a 2 month old daughter who i gotta take care of so i can't afford not to be tattooing right now. i agree that there are far too many "kitchen magicians" out there and i gotta laugh every time one of the people i tattoo at home are amazed at the results and tell me how i really exceeded their expectations cuz they've seen so many bad tattoos done at peoples houses. what i don't understand is why someone would get tattooed at all if they were expecting sub-par work??!! this is baffling to me. i guess it all boils down to money. some people will settle for less than great work because they just can't afford the sky high prices now days. myself, i'll spend the cash and get top shelf work. but i do agree that pricing has gotten a bit ridiculous. i think the business is becoming too finance driven and becoming too hollywood. i think we should all be focusing on the art and less on the cash and trying to squeeze every cent possible out of the customers. although i do understand the amount of overhead in owning a shop. but c'mon we all know a busy shop turns one hell of a profit.

forgive my ignorance but im new to this forum and want to know where to view and post pictures of work bein done by forum members. not all of us have our own web page. can anybody fill me in?

one hell of a tough buisness (i guess i should use an LOL!)!!!! some of you pros are super cool and don't mind giving advice and helping out the aspiring artist but some of you guys are dicks (same as any other industry though). i admit it, i "scratch" but i really don't want to any more, the consequences of learning without guidance are too great. i've done a few pieces i was really proud of and a few that i wish i hadn't done at all. there is no feeling worse in this world than perminantly fucking some one up. now i mostly practice on chickens (from the store of course) but that sucks! i'm putting together a portfolio and doing it right now after learning a hard learned leson. it's a tough biz y'all, only the strong will survive i guess and i'm determined. apprenticeships have to be obtainable right? tattoo artist don't fall through a vortex from another dimension do they? so it must be a question of dedication to the art. stop bitching and get to work if you want to be a tattoo artist! that's what i'm doing and it ain't easy but it's a whole hell of a lot easier than living with the guilt i feel for fucking up a tattoo. i'm an awsome artist and i know it, so i just need to believe in myself and persist. i will make it one day but it won't be from my kitchen.

www.myspace.com/whitetigertattoos My art will speak for itself. Please no haters, but I do greatly appreciate constructive critisism and helpful advice. Not all of my work is finished, so please keep that in mind too.

ohho! this topic is old. but i need to rant. why do all people say it's so fucking hard to get into "the business"? it's realy simple... you just buy the gear needed for tattooing. by gear i mean everything needed for respectable tattooing. and of course register your enterpise. and you only tattoo shit you're good at. if you can't draw on paper, you can't tattoo. it's the same thing, just different materials. and if you're good at drawing, but are lacking in formal senses you need to be good at that before starting. tattoos are not complex, it's just pigment,skin, and something to penetrate the skin with. but to be a good tattoo artist you need brains. you need to understand what's happening. putting the ink in the skin is easy to understand how works. you should be able to get the idea after your first tattoo. from there on you just do what you know works. and if you want to try something that you're not sure of, get the information on how to do it and think it through. if you got brains, and balls. there will be blood, and decent and marvellous tattoos. but if you have balls without brains, you make shitty tattoos and endanger the person you're tattooing. the reason being you don't realise you don't have brains. but why the fuck do people get tattooed by those people? because they've got shit for brains themself. everybody makes mistakes. even the big pros. some of you have probably picked up their cellphone without taking of the used glov... crosscontaminated bottles, surfaces, and all kind of shit. some may even have used needles, tubes, and such where the seal of the packaging has been a tiny little bit open. thinking: i have sterilized it, it's just a little hole, and everything from last time is dead anyways, so there's no possibility of giving him\her hepatit or some other shit. only mistake i have done in terms of hygiene: when i first started out and tattooed some of my close friends. i washed the gear, and soaked it in 70% isopropanol for a week, before it was packed and put in a oven at 200 celcius for two hours. this was due to faulty information. i did this two or three times. but i highly doubt any dangerous shit survived that. i know everything went fine. but it could have gone wrong. maybe.

Daaang...I haven't been to this site in at least a year and this thread is still at the top...LOL

I think the reason people dont try to help is because they would just look like a conceited bitch. Even if they did know a little something about WTF they were talking about. IDK im not speaking for all artists but home tattooers tend to be a little bit more cocky and are used to things being done their way, so if you try to help and get a fucking attitude for it well than- just shutup and let the artist be a DICK!

it's because we hate you. you don't pester a mechanic do ya? if you wanted to be a mechanic you'd have to go to school and get all certified right? what's the fucking difference? fuck you, yeah we play tight. because every fucking half wit fucktard would be tattooing shitty unicorns if we didn't.. OSHA refuses to regulate us, so we do it ourselves. you want in, do it the hard way.... you know, the way we did it?

I’m new to this site but I thought id put my 2 cents in. right now I’m apprenticing with a guy that been a family friend for about 10 years. He moved here from Alaska were he owned a shop. He served a formal apprentice ship some years ago and has always stressed to me the importance of that. Has in the process of opening up a shop but only has one artist, so their teaching me the steez. But I feel I’m at huge disadvantage learning outside of a professional environment. We have an autoclave and ultrasonic, and everything else you need in a shop, but I still feel it’s not a reputable background. Art has always been my passion and tattooing is huge part of my lifestyle. But as an artist the last thing I want to do is put myself out there and get exploited. Any one can buy a machine on eBay and call them self a tattooist and the shitty part is a lot of people do. I didn’t want to be one of those people. And these days it is hard enough to make a name for yourself in the tattoo community especially when you’re not by the book. If I was not given this opportunity to work with people I knew were professionals I never would try to do this on my own or at my home. I’m confident in my art, but biggest concern is being able to put a clean quality tattoo on someone. I know I’m getting the same knowledge of this media I would in a shop, but as some one who takes this as a serious career I wish I would have stepped up to the plate a few years ago and done it the right way, the complete right way. Another thing is you get what you pay for; you’re not going to get a deal on a Monet.

I get every argument put forth.But it isn't exactly like that, is it? I think I would go for an apprinticeship if "slavery" wasn't envolved. I have a masters degree, and I don't remember scrubbing toilets, washing cars, mopping floors or any other degrading activity being involved in getting that degree. I do remember 4 years with tons of repitition, studying, and trial & error work on the way to my degree. Even Med students are treated better during internships.... So why do Tattoo artists give their apprentices such grief? I don't know for others but this would put me off enough to want to teach myself. (Just for clarification, I'm not teaching myself nor looking to learn tattoo) In fact, The artist I use for all of my ink is a self taught pro, granted he is in a proper studio now and has 30 years under his belt. He never takes apprentices and dosen't let anyone hang around his studio. But I like him, because he is not a snob and he has talent I can admire. It's a shame, that the more I read online about young people interested in learning tattoo... the more I equally read about "professional" artists beating them down. It's ok to keep your cards close to your chest...but eventually someone has to teach the next generation to play the game. (Unless you all want to end up like todays bridge players - old, dusty and alone in a creepy community center) That's my 2 cents.

Ashby, the great tattoo artists are teaching the next generation, they just arent doing it on the internet. Hell, Ive learned so much that we are hosting a tattoo convention *just* to help teach the next generation... But completely discourage people teaching themselves (theres too much at stake, the publics skin). Also you probably paid a lot of money for your masters, most apprentices dont pay so much, and work off their debt by cleaning and what not...

Gabe, Ok, I get that. But with your last thought in mind... Why do so many pros whine and complain about tattoo schools opening up? Many of the stars of tattoo today, and even the local tat "heroes" are self taught (granted for most that was 20-30 years ago). I am not saying "go teach yourself" or anything stupid like that. One MUST learn from the knowledgeable one way or another. With tattoo schools, and pros willing to take time away from work to train one on one for a fee...and many more possibilities to come, I think whom ever is upset about teaching for cash,should eventually get over it. Either we let the kids go to school or find a mentor without grief about the choice they made... Or let them teach themselves (which is most undesireable). (I only mention this because I was told a story about a kid with serious sills that couldn't even get an interview just because he got his basics from a "school") I would clearly prefer to pay than scrub any toilets. I don't think I am alone. Of course I agree that schools or teachers whom claim to make Joe Blow a competent artist, of any kind, in 6 weeks some sort of scam. One can hardly understand the basic theories of light and reflection in 6 weeks... let alone, lines, form, depth, shading, color theory, 2D vs 3D, prospective and more PLUS the standard health and tattoo practice procedures. All I really want to say is this: Ok, be tight lipped about your techniques if you want, but as an industry, and reps of that industry...Would it kill some people to be more understanding and less cruel & critical. I'm also glad to hear that there is a convention geared towards the newer generation. I wish you great luck with that. I will be telling a few people to keep eyes open for it. ASHBY

I think the problem with tattoo schools would be that they would focus on money more than talent. I think most artist would agree that there is already enough artist without everyone being accepted to a tattoo school who has enough money. It should be based on talent, not tuition. As it stands, I don't think tattoo schools are really any better than being self taught (except they are expensive). There are no "secrets" in tattooing anymore. Except one thing that most of us self-taught tattooers don't want to hear ....an apprenticeship cannot be overlooked or under-rated. Trial and error is NOT the way to learn tattooing. Just my thoughts...

i have to say, i have a unique situation. the apprenticeship opportunity in my area is completely dry. the nearest shops are three towns away, one does not apprentice, the other two already have apprentices picked and lined up for the next few years. i have found a mentor that has owned a shop in the recent past (the last of three shops, he just closed it this year) who has agreed to start my apprenticeship. he has bought all my equipment for me and begun to teach me about machine construction, proper settings, inks, sterilization, etc. he is teaching me out of his house because he does not want the headache of running a tattoo shop any more, he's trying to start a family. he runs a restaurant in stead. he's a tattoo artist, but all the learning happens inside his home. after a lot of calls, i have also gained the long-distance support of a professional artist who currently owns a shop and already has an apprentice. she is extra friendly and has agreed to support me over the phone once or twice a week and through emails. her shop is too far away for me to visit more than once or twice a month, but she encourages me to keep contact because she is definitely in my corner, regardless of her lack of need for an apprentice. i consider myself very fortunate to have so much support, and have worked my ass off just to get this far. i eat, breath, and dream tattoo. i've been reading and researching every spare minute i have got. i'm constantly rebuilding and retuning my machines, and every time i see my mentor, i proudly show him my machines and have him check the setup. everyone talks about having moxy, talent and motivation, and i'm putting everything i've got in to this. i know there are a lot of kitchen scratchers out there, and there are some that will never change. i started a scratcher, but i stopped years ago before making any major mistakes. it's taken a long time to get any kind of proper sponsorship, but i have to say, i have learned more from my mentors than i would have ever figured out in my kitchen. SCRATCHERS:::: keep trying. don't be put down. if you want to become a proper artist, then DO IT. read everything you can, and talk to EVERYONE. if you are destined to do it right, then START NOW. put down that homemade shit and buy a REAL machine. check and re-check your sterilization. you may make some nice art, but if you ever scratch, dig, or infect someone and the 'real' tattoo artists find out about it, your career will be dead before you ever get a chance to start. TRUST ME. i've worked hard enough just to have a CHANCE at real tattooing, and my career isn't even close to guaranteed. i tell you, i understand now why pros are such dickheads. it's a tough business to get in to, you have to fight to get it, and you have to fight to keep it. much love to the professionals. hopefully in a year or two i will be licking a new pair of boots, and be on the right side of the fence.

Up and Coming: I'll give you some credit. what you're doing is better than most. You're learning from someone who knows what they're doing, and if you're using an autoclave and practicing safe procedures, i don't really have a problem with it. However, all of you people who think we are assholes, I'm going to try my hardest to put this in perspective, although i think Gabe did it well early in this thread: Asking for inside information is like writing to a medical journal and asking how to take out an appendix, claiming "my uncle has taken out plenty, using a boiled steak knife, and i really want to learn how." Or like walking into a university and saying "i want a degree, but i'm not going to pay for it. I've bought the books and a really nice laptop, and i'm pretty sure i know everything. can i walk with the other graduates?" What do you really expect us to say? You know what i think about you guys? The people in this forum who ask about tattooing without proper training are like the people who want a tattoo and ask if there's a miracle cream that makes a tattoo painless. Zero respect for or understanding of tattooing and what a tattoo is all about. You know what? No, i'll admit it: not all great tattoo artists had an apprenticeship. But do you know what they did have? Respect. Respect for those that have come before them and respect for those they have something to learn from.

proper procedures: definitely autoclave: no. my mentor is not letting me use any metal tubes or tips until i can save my own money for an autoclave. (that's one investment he does not want to shell out, as he does not want to run a business any more, and would not make the money back. )he is instructing me on the use and setup of steel parts, but he has me using strictly disposable tube/tip/grips, and he is hardcore about my proper use of the sharps containers and hazardous waste bags. needles will get used once, then disposed. he hasn't had me touch skin yet, and still every needle that we open and set up gets treated the same as a dirty one. he doesn't even let me open the case and touch the machines without scrubbing up, removing my rings, and putting on the gloves. all setup and tuning is done with gloves on, disposed after each use in the hazardous bag. when the time comes, my mentor has a few old ink buddies that will let me do some work on them, and he's still got them signing paperwork for it. i will be unpaid, and i am forbidden from seeking paying customers until my apprenticeship with him is done. ouch. oh well. he's teaching me, and there's no way i'm going against his orders. as for the autoclave, i'm sticking with the disposal method until i get into a shop.

Well, it sounds like you've got the right idea.

Good afternoon everyone. I have been reading these threads for a couple days now, and I just thought I would share my story. I am a medical researcher for the Nebraska Medical Center. I am also an out of home tattoo artist. I am 18 years old. I have had this passion for art my whole life asnd when the thought hit me that tattoing would be a perfect outlet, I started researching. I took a mere three months of apprenticeship. I got my liscence. I steralize like hell. I intend to take out a loan from my personal financer to open up shop when my husbands health insurance kicks in. I just wanted to let you all know that I am a young, naive individual that understands the importance of education and health. My schooling record is enough to show that. So while by your standards I may be a scratcher, I love what I do, and I will never do anything to sabatoge it, and that includes making crappy tattoos or inflicting an ailment upon a client. I would appreciate your feedback. Many thanks, Kendra.

Kendra, You are a smart person and I don't want to come across as condescending. However, I think that your lack of industry/in-shop experience as well as the economy right now, it's an incredible set up for failure to try and open a business right now. I feel that it is totally irrespobsible to open a shop without first getting really good and gaining much meeded shop experience. Honestly, there are too many people who open their own shops because they can't obtain a job at a good one. The previous statement is just a generalization but when tattooers do that, they are setting themselves up to fail and they are making the entire industry look horrible. I would advize you to get a job and gain the much need experience that it required to open your own shop. You sure are young enough to get really good, built a reputation for yourself and THEN open up the shop of your dreams. Hope that helped some...

Yep, sure did. I hadn't even considered the economy from the consumer side, just the seller side. My only concern about taking a job here in town, I have a great offer from a wonderful mentor by the way, is that I view loyalty quite intansely. I think I would feel guilty if I took a job just to get ahead, even if it would mean more experience for my costomer,

Okay, yes, I'll grant the whiners I've read, this much... these guys ARE assholes! BUT they are reasonable assholes who have resorted to this out of frustration and concern for the results of those who scratch out an existence (you can't even call it a living) with no regard for the long-term effects of doing this the wrong way. I myself have not much interest in tattooing, and have known several good artists who began as scratchers and now work in licensed shops! several of them have encouraged me to pursue my own interests in scarification and piercing, but i am hesitant to do so because for most piercing is NOT an artform but a sideline when it could be so much more, and I'm not yet aware of any truly talented persons in scarification. I don't ever intend to earn a living through this, but i have seen (photos on the internet) some truly creative and exemplary work and believe with proper training i could learn to do the same. If anyone could point me towards an artist or two in the southern michigan area that wouldn't mind an onlooker I would be extremely grateful!

i tattoo in my house n im proud of it!!!! my tats look very good n im very sanitary...jus ask me if u wann see my artwork!!! very legit

i mus say . I WOULD MUCH RATHER USE A TIGHT FEMALE TATOO ER. CUZ THAT WOULD....................."HUH?".......................".wachya mean thats not what there talkin bout"??.....................AWWWE SHIT PPL.......... " MA BAD "............................................SOwwwwy....

Posted by zman7590 from IP: 75.168.173.128 on 04/22/09 nowhere minnesota united states i tattoo in my house n im proud of it!!!! my tats look very good n im very sanitary...jus ask me if u wann see my artwork!!! very legit Oh yeah...Let's see these masterpieces!

To all of these "I tattoo in my house and I'm very clean" people. Have you at least gotten yourself BBP certified? You can do that for $20 buck on-line. To not have shop knowledge or BBP and tattoo out of your home is just irresponsible. BTW, I'm a female tattooist undergoing a formal apprenticeship. I worked very hard just to get my apprenticeship, and there definitely are some assholes out there (especially towards females) but you should be dedicated enough to earn your tattoo knowledge in a legit way. If you haven't even been to all the shops you can go to, done your homework, or established a portfolio no one will want to talk to you. There are some great inspirations out there in the tattoo industry. You just have to find them and not be afraid to take crap. Be confident enough to take their criticisms constructively. I've been an apprentice for about a year and didn't pick up a machine till about 3 months ago. I have been trying to get an apprenticeship/interested in tattooing since I was 18. Patience is key and will make you a much better artist in the long run. If you're really passionate about what you do you will be patient and dedicated. I worked 60+ hours this week at my management job plus the time I spent in my shop (and still managed to make a couple new pieces in-between) I may be tired, but I'm still happy as a clam because I'm doing what I love. Good luck! Work hard! Danielle (tattoomcgrew)

Oh, by the way.... I'm currently 27.

[quoteDissing scratchers?...Hell yes I diss them ...they are dangerous people who spread disease and pass out bad tattoos like cheap candy at a parade...they hurt the industry mightily...when people see a poorly executed tattoo that just solidifies the stereotypical image of our world that we, the professionals of this business have sacrificed so much to bring into the light of legitimacy. [/quote] Some mentors teach shit worse than any scratcher or kitchen magician can brew up. Had I kept with my first mentor, I would have made not only a bad name but a lot of professional artist (as well as the E.R.) an ass ton of money! Here's my take: I am apprentice, second apprenticeship, (not because I have to, but because I want to), I believe to buy equipment you must first pass and posses a BBP certification! Want to work from your home? Pass a health inspection...if you pass the BBP cert, and can pass the Health inspection for our purposed facility, then more power to you, Ink On in your spare room! For gods and your families sake...at lease get a BBP certificate, don't know what a BBP is???? ":Put the Gun down, and step away" till you learn!. I interact with both the Professional as well as the so called "Scratcher" and the one thing (sometimes the only thing) that separates to two is State Certification. Here's to the shop that doesn't want competition, to the scratcher that doesn't want a State Cert. I'm all for the level playing field, if I have to have a BBP cert. before getting a GOOD apprenticeship, at lease pay homage to those who have paved he way and made tats desirable by getting a BBP cert and health inspection, after that....keep sending us your work so we can express ourselves OVER your failed attempts!

I am by no rights a professional (yet) how ever. i'm looking into tattooing as my career. first off, i've been an experienced henna and body art artist for 8 years now, and i've been compelled into tattooing. it calls to me... i love the art and its made its way into my body art. i know henna and temporary paints is a far cry from real tattooing but this is the path i am on, and its one i'm going to stick on. i've been researching this path for the past year, and have not yet leaped into buying my machine or equipment. making sure i've educated myself as much as i can before i make a leap. fake skins are going to be my first attempts.. and i'm hoping i can get a shop to take me under their wing to show me some of the ropes. but in the meantime, i've also been reading about the whole "kitchen magician" terms being mentioned here, and on other sites, and i'm amazed yet agree on some of the bad practices that do happen to happen out there in this crazy world, but i have to say, getting an apprentice position out there is tough. finding someone willing to take you off the street, is crazy hard. and my options right now, are to set up shop here at home. creating my own sterile and safe environment with autoclave and all... even though i would LOVE to get the chance to work under someone's wing.. the places i've called want me to have experience.. um... how does an amateur get experience as an apprentice? you got fired from a place because you lacked talent, drive or ambition??? sigh.. anyhow.. i'll keep calling and going into shops for someone to apprentice me.. but the drive and ambition in me.. keeps me going forward, not at a stand still.. i have access to public health and have no issues with them doing inspections in my lil'tattoo studio and no issues having my autoclave tested regularly either. so will that classify me as a "kitchen magician"? i hope not.. my equipment and workspace will be sterile. i even am going to the extreme of using pre-sterilized packaged needles, and grips and everything i can.. i love the info on this site.. its been great! i look forward to hearing and learning and speaking to many of you. cheers eliktris

Nah, Kitchen Magicians (My opinion...we all have one) are those who picked up a cheap kit from an auction site and and slap some work on you while you sit on their couch or love seat, collecting microscopic Blood Bourne trophies to share with the next poor sap that sits in that spot next time. In some states you can Legally retro a room of your home, state comes out (in mine) every couple weeks to inspect your facility and sterilization methods, if you pass you are still in business. Two problems here. To get certified, financially you will be better off adding a room addition specificity designed to State standards for body art than trying to retro a spare room. Although legal, the state (and for good reason) will be harder on you being your facility is located within close proximity of living space. Turning your detached garage into a shop would be a little easier provided your zoning doesn't restrict you to residential as your new facility will now be zoned commercial. Second and more important,.....Some of your clients....you really won't want them knowing where you live...you did after all work real hard for that big screen TV yesterdays client and his buddy are packing out of your living room while you are out!

hey all!!!... i am 20 years old, i have been tattooing on my own for 3 years !!! i was 15 when i started the idea of becoming my dream!(tattoo artist) for 2 years then all i did was draw and practice and research !!!!! i learned techniques on the shading and lining, also i learned alot about being sterile. when i tattoo my clients they tell me that they feel really comfortable with me for many reasons ,but one is because i do it at their homes not mine !!!! they like the comfort in being at their own place and are too intimidated to go to a shop! i have also talked to the proffesional artist around my community and i have been getting good feedback from my portfolio!!! what i am doing i think is the right thing to do, well i think anyways i am looking for an apprenticship now as well !!! Now that you kinda know my story.. can i get some feed back on my ways of tattooing and how to get where i want to be !!! which is a professional in a shop !!! how and what should my next step be !!! ....tattoo kid! --- http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3903775&id=518025816#/group.php?gid=48883310157&ref=search&sid=514290599.3355011676..1 ---

I have to say that Im a scratcher, but by necessity at the moment. Im licensed, went thru an apprenticeship at a local renowned studio, etc. I use disposable tubes/needles combos clip cord and machine barriers. Green soap alcohol medical bibs gloves. Everything you would see at a shop. Me and my gal are both licensed and have converted 2 of the rooms in our house into studios. But this is only temporary. Everyone knows that due to the economy business is not only bad but its near impossible to get a loan. so We are doing the best we can, have a large very happy clientele. We are just working til we have everything in line to open our own studio a far drive away as our county does not even issue business permits for tattoo shops. So we are looking for the right place close by. I assure you all of us are not bad. we sterilize and clean as if it were a rented space for a business studio, and people are comfortable with us where we do our work even artists themselves come here. No about the haters, Ya got a point there. theres way too many everyday jobbers out there slinging junk onto peoples skin that have no reason or right to even hold a machine!!!!

it sounds like to me most american tattoo artist only do it for the money. all of the spiritual meaning has been killed.

we should just call them "guns" instead of machines. and do a criminal background check before issueing a tattoo license to anyone.

PLEASE post this "Aztec" tattoo you are so proud of. I would LOVE to see it ! May be we should try to get your uncle in a better environment if he is that good. I am all about helping the talent. LITOS from Forbidden Images Studio. www.forbiddenimages.com

To Kendra Jones First off congrats on working for one of the most notable hospitals in the nation. That hospital saved my little brother's life a couple of times. 3 months of apprenticeship is about 2 years short of what an apprenticeship should actually last by my standards, and i know guys that would argue with me that 2 years isn't long enough. how is it that you are licensed in Nebraska outside of a shop? Licensed or not it is still highly Illegal to tattoo in your home in this state. Like prison time illegal. Just a heads up. As for the rest of this gigantic argument i can not believe that it is even happening.

They play so tight so they have less competition and stop idiots brandishing deadly weapons to name only two reasons. Who in their right mind would train up a tattooist, passing on all their trade secrets that took years to accumulate only to have that person go work for themselves or the opposition - not good business sense, you gotta protect yourself and your income where ever possible. The old skool tattooist with alot of knowledge and grit but very little talent would find the changes happening in the tattoo industry rather daunting to say the least. Now with that said, it is entirely up to the newbie to find their way around these road blocks and as they say "where there is a will there is a way". You don't see doctors trying to stop people studying to become doctors, bet they would if they could but alas they have no control over the medical institutions teaching the profession. And there lies the point - the option of studying to be a tattooist as you would to become an architect or interior designer is not yet upon us and until this does happen the tattooists with the skills still hold more power than we might like. When good study options become available tattooists will survive by their talent and business skills as is the case with most professions, not just because they managed to get into a very closed door industry 15 or 20 years ago, got through the hazing and scared off all the competition. Nice to see the tattoo industry get a damn good clean up.

First of all I want to say, I've been watching every video I can find about tattoos,and reading.... I will be a professional tattoo artist...now with that said... I'm a Union Ironworker and went through a four year apprenticeship to become an Ironworker.. I didn't just go buy tools and start putting up structural steel... I had to call every union company to find what jobs were going on, and find the superintendent and ask him to sponsor me.. Took me almost a year to get one.. Then I started my apprenticeship once I got sponsored. So 4 years later I can say, ya I'm an Ironworker. Same thing goes for wanting to be a tattoo artist. You will never just get handed an apprenticeship.. And yes we have something similar to your kitchen wannabes.. They r called book buyers.. They go take the journeyman test, pass and call themselves ironworkers.. ( hate them).. I know how you guys feel. If you are wondering if i can draw.. Email me and I will show u my drawings.. And yes I bought a gun....ha j/k... .a tattoo machine, and yes I did a tattoo on myself, which turned out better than I thought it would, ( a nautical star) just to see if I really wanted pursue becoming a tattoo apprentice..... Yup ...I do.... So anyway feel free to drop me a line...

First of all I want to say, I've been watching every video I can find about tattoos,and reading.... I will be a professional tattoo artist...now with that said... I'm a Union Ironworker and went through a four year apprenticeship to become an Ironworker.. I didn't just go buy tools and start putting up structural steel... I had to call every union company to find what jobs were going on, and find the superintendent and ask him to sponsor me.. Took me almost a year to get one.. Then I started my apprenticeship once I got sponsored. So 4 years later I can say, ya I'm an Ironworker. Same thing goes for wanting to be a tattoo artist. You will never just get handed an apprenticeship.. And yes we have something similar to your kitchen wannabes.. They r called book buyers.. They go take the journeyman test, pass and call themselves ironworkers.. ( hate them).. I know how you guys feel. If you are wondering if i can draw.. Email me and I will show u my drawings.. And yes I bought a gun....ha j/k... .a tattoo machine, and yes I did a tattoo on myself, which turned out better than I thought it would, ( a nautical star) just to see if I really wanted pursue becoming a tattoo apprentice..... Yup ...I do.... So anyway feel free to drop me a line...

First of all I want to say, I've been watching every video I can find about tattoos,and reading.... I will be a professional tattoo artist...now with that said... I'm a Union Ironworker and went through a four year apprenticeship to become an Ironworker.. I didn't just go buy tools and start putting up structural steel... I had to call every union company to find what jobs were going on, and find the superintendent and ask him to sponsor me.. Took me almost a year to get one.. Then I started my apprenticeship once I got sponsored. So 4 years later I can say, ya I'm an Ironworker. Same thing goes for wanting to be a tattoo artist. You will never just get handed an apprenticeship.. And yes we have something similar to your kitchen wannabes.. They r called book buyers.. They go take the journeyman test, pass and call themselves ironworkers.. ( hate them).. I know how you guys feel. If you are wondering if i can draw.. Email me and I will show u my drawings.. And yes I bought a gun....ha j/k... .a tattoo machine, and yes I did a tattoo on myself, which turned out better than I thought it would, ( a nautical star) just to see if I really wanted pursue becoming a tattoo apprentice..... Yup ...I do.... So anyway feel free to drop me a line...

1st safety ,2nd share your income on your country ,3rd be professional to your hear. thats the 3reason why you get your tattoo on license tattoo shop.

Ive just started my apprenticeship all because i volunteered at a convention and worked my arse off for no pay just to see great artists like Nikko Hurtado and Carlos Rojas , i wouldnt say it was for nothing because from there i am now the shop apprentice with several artists teaching me this awesome trade I love ink have done ever since i can remember and shit ive only just started drawing but draw every day and its getting better.......I really want to say that if you dont love tattoos, tattooing and want to learn everything that any tattoo artist is generous enough to show you then maybe you should fuck off and disrespect another industry. I am willing and prepared to do the hard yards to learn this skill. After all its not something that can be learnt at school, uni, books or dvds its something that has to be passed down to you and if your lucky enough to have someone that wants to pass it to you JUST BE FUCKEN GRATEFUL

Ive just started my apprenticeship all because i volunteered at a convention and worked my arse off for no pay just to see great artists like Nikko Hurtado and Carlos Rojas , i wouldnt say it was for nothing because from there i am now the shop apprentice with several artists teaching me this awesome trade I love ink have done ever since i can remember and shit ive only just started drawing but draw every day and its getting better.......I really want to say that if you dont love tattoos, tattooing and want to learn everything that any tattoo artist is generous enough to show you then maybe you should fuck off and disrespect another industry. I am willing and prepared to do the hard yards to learn this skill. After all its not something that can be learnt at school, uni, books or dvds its something that has to be passed down to you and if your lucky enough to have someone that wants to pass it to you JUST BE FUCKEN GRATEFUL