Wrong Kanji!

Ok had the Cherry Creek Kanji flash for years and have literally done hundreds of them ...I am now finding out that some (if not all) of the translations listed for this stuff is waay WRONG...Had a long time customer come in last week mad as hell because the kanji she got that was represented on the flash sheet as "hope" actually was the symbol for "semester"!!!!!...WHAT THE FUCK?... Now I know Rand who is the guy behind cherry Creek Flash and he is an upstanding kinda guy...I am quite sure he didn't know that this problem existed...I just want all you hardworkin tattoo artists out there to know that you could be doin a LOT of free coverups of this erroneously labled Kanji....I know that I have to stand behind my work and if a client comes in and says that the kanji they paid for was wrong ( in this case I researched it personally and it WAS DEAD WRONG!) I am obligated to cover it up or do whatever it takes to make my client happy...I know that if it were me I would be really pissed!! Just a heads up guys and gals....From now on I double and triple check before I put any foreign language or symbols on my clients...This situation was very embarrassing for me. I have notified Rand at Cherry Creek Flash but haven't heard from him yet BE WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAz, Painted Angel Studios

...

...

...

damn, that sucks!

YES IT SUCKS!!! And I'm damned if ANOTHER client didn't call me today and tell me that their Cherry Creek Kanji ALSO had the wrong meaning!!!!...Looked it up and ,by God , IT WAS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEANING than what it says on the flash sheet.I don't BELIEVE this crappola! I blame myself for not having the sense to look each and every kanji up BEFORE I put it on people, It just never entered my mind that a respected flash company would publish mislabled kanji without researching it first! I can see it now ...a line around the block waiting for coverups on their Kanji (that or lawsuits!! evn worse!) I am officially pissed OFF!!!! And Rand from Cherry Creek still has not responded...Has anyone else had this problem?...Well if you have been doin Kanji off the Cherry Creek Flash YOU WILL!! TAz

well taz we have used good time charlies kanji, and suppriseingly it's pretty accurate. cape girardeau MO as you know has a big ass collage (SEMO) and we get alot of asians here and they have looked over it and said it's close. like the kanji for hate, they say it says evil but to them it has the same meaning, and so on with alot of others. so if i was you i'd check into good time charlies kanji.

Hey Taz (I hate for this to be my first post), Let me start off saying I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of misrepresentation and stuff, and I think it's honorable that you're "fixing" these published errors. Really though, shouldn't these people research this shit them selves? I haven't got any kanji on me or anything, but I've considered a few phrases and I've cross refferenced EVERY one of them through several different sites online, books/language dictionaries AND Asian friends. The honus should be on the client (at least in part) to look into it in my opinion. Next weekend I'm getting the kanji for "ronin" under a large leg piece next weekend and I made sure the flash matched EVERY other resource I could find... it didn't mind you lol!

Please refer all lawsuits to Cherry Creek Inc.

I think I had made posts earlier about the problems of getting translations from online services or such. At anyrate....I personally wont do unless I take the long road and get maybe 3 translations from reputable sources. 1 maybe being a university..2..in the case of Chinese...maybe a restaurant etc. ONLY if all 3 match would I be confident that its right. I'd be MORE comfortable if the CLIENT did the research and supplied the Kanji! Then its THEIR fault and NOT mine.

Taz, since your posts lead me to think you're a 'stand up' kinda guy/Tattoo Artist, I feel for you and understand your anger with these 'flash masters' and I hope like hell you don't have any serious problems resulting from trusting these assholes to provide accurate designs (if you recall, I recently posted a message regarding the lack of accuracy on so much of this recent stuff and was accused of being too concerned about that at the time) I'm NOT trying to come off like 'I told ya so', so don't take it that way as it is NOT meant that way but again, that was my point, so much of this mass produced flash IS inaccurate and we, as Tattoo Artist SHOULD be able to trust these fucks to respect what this is about, not pedal shit to us that WE end up taking the heat for. I've got a copy of an article from a few years back where a guy wanted his first name in Chinese letters, got the work done by someone who used a J.D. Crowe flash sheet that wasn't even close and when questioned about it, Crowe said he knows the Chinese don't have an alphabet but admitted to selling it and basicly blew the question off-dispite knowing the client was stuck with 6 2 inch symbols Crowe KNEW weren't accurate.These people would not have a market for thier shit if it weren't for Tattoo Artist but it's obvious most of them are more concerned with the money than the responcibity of making sure it IS accurate. And on the point regarding Kenji is there anyone who can turn me on to a RELIABLE source for same, whether that be websites or books that ARE reliable. I've checked some out but it seems like every one I've found is wrong on some that I know what the character is supposed to be or 'hit and miss' with accuracy, and, like you, I will NOT put my clients or reputation at risk. I tell people who want any of it to do their own research and bring me the results. I know damn good and well I lose money doing that but I'm one of those assholes who'd rather risk not having them get the work by me than put something on them only to find it does NOT mean what it is supposed to. Again Taz, I feel for ya man, I really do and hope like hell ya don't get shit because of this. Oh yeah, and kmesiano, as to your post of refering all lawsuits to Cherry Creek Inc, sorry dude, ain't quite that simple, since they did not actually DO the tattoo they cannot be held legally responcible (ain't that some shit?

That's what I'm saying John... the client should do his/her own research... lol I would never have anything tattoo'd on me unless I knew exactly what it meant!

I totally disagree...If a client comes to my shop for a tattoo and they see a symbol they like and I represent it as saying or meaning something I (not them) am responsible for making damn sure that my valued customer gets EXACTLY what they think they are getting....they are trusting ME to make sure they are getting what they think they are getting....I have a reputation to uphold and I should have been responsible enough to have done exactly what John said ...I should have made sure that Goddamned Kanji was accurate!.. I feel absolutely HORRIBLE about this..over the next few weeks we are pulling the records of every kanji I have done and calling these people up to try and make sure that they didn't get screwed like the other 2 clients did and I will make amends to them if they did get inaccurate symbols...I take my responsibility to my clients VERY seriously and can do no less...TAz

Well Taz, that's VERY respectable and I don't disagree at all... I know the world is full of spur of the moment people that won't look into these things and when it's posted on the wall they're trusting that you know what you're doing... I just can't believe that people don't care enough to look into it themselves. I'm not blaming them by any means, I just firmly belive that if it's not a custom design you should think it through that much more and research ANY and ALL phrases/text in foreign or domestic languages. Didn't mean to offend or anything.

...Damn Cherry Creek!!

Pantera ...I take no offense at all with your post (welcome to the forum by the way!) Like I said I just feel bad about this whole mess...I do agree that people SHOULD take the time to carefully research their tattoos but ya gotta understand that I have a lot of people who come to my shop and simply because its my shop they automatically trust what they see so ultimately I am responsible. Ah well live and learn!...T

I had never considered kanji, but if I had I would have researched the hell out of it. Although, if I had gone into your shop on a lark and gotten it done, it's true I would have thought the kanji was 100% accurate. I think it's a really good thing you're doing, it's really ethically responsible, and you rarely see that today. On a more curious note what did you end up covering that girl's tattoo with?

Perhaps it's time to put a disclaimer in the paperwork concerning Kanji's in the fact that we're not fluent in foreign languages and any symbol chosen by the client is not guaranteed to be actual, just to protect our own butts. I've worked in shops before that had similar disclaimers and people signed away and took their chances. I do agree that the research should be done by the client if they want a kanji, or any other tattoo for that matter. I know what you mean by representing it on your walls, but maybe in addition to a disclaimer in the paperwork, a sign above any kanji flash would be a good backup plan.

Am I wrong? If YOU are responsible to your clients Taz........isn't Cheery Creek responsible to YOU....AND all the other artists who bought the Kanji flash sheets? NOT to mention all the peices walking around?????? Now THEY are an industry and SHOULD stand up!

Good idea Krystof...I have already put a new policy into effect whereas if they want someting in a language we don't peak they must first sign a seperate release form absolving us of any responsibility if the language is inaccurate We are also researching each and every Kanji we have (thousands) To see what is ans is not accurate. John, I think there is a good deal of culpability on the part of Cherry Creek...I agree with that! I am still waiting to hear from Rand. Knowing Rand I fully expect him to stand up in this mess. Ahlyn...I have not done her cover yet but I think she is thinking of a small koi and flowers..TAz

Taz -- I am aware of the potentail for problems. We began including a "warning" with the set about 3 or 4 years ago. It suggests that studios inform customers that kanji/meanings are offered in good faith, but not guaranteed. It suggests customers research the kanji they want themselves making, the customer responsible for accuracy. It also suggests that the studio get customers' signatures for release of resopnsibility. This is true even if they bring their own kanji in and copy it on the back of the release form (there are hundreds of different "kanji CDs" on eBay being marketed to tattoo customers -- would you trust any of them?). Under the best of circumstances it is risky to tattoo kanji. There are variations in interpretations (I've had a few Cherry Creek kanji from set 8 challenged -- and I got the symbols direct from Martin's Unabridged Dictionary oK kanji/English). Hopefully, the kanji fad will someday die out (none too soon for me...). Best Regards -- Rand AN ADVISORY -- KANJI SYMBOLS The sets of Kanji symbols sold by Cherry Creek Inc are offered in good faith. However, no guarantee is given as to the accuracy of these symbols/meanings. Be advised, and advise your tattoo clients, that kanji symbols can be interpreted differently by different sources. Even those knowledgeable in Kanji often read variations or shades of meaning into the symbols. It is a good idea to make your clients aware that neither you, nor your studio, can guarantee the accuracy of a particular kanji symbol. It is best to state this -- in writing -- to your clients. If you or your client are in doubt, have the client take the responsibility to research the particular symbol/meaning they want as a tattoo. Even if the client brings in the symbol, make a copy of it, have them sign it, and keep it with your studio’s records. Consider using the disclaimer below, or something similar, when applying kanji symbols as a tattoo. I have been advised and I understand that studio name offers kanji symbols with meanings that are reasonably believed to be correct but that studio name cannot guarantee the accuracy of the kanji symbol I have selected as a tattoo. By signing this form, I agree to hold harmless and release studio name from any and all liabilities, claims or legal actions arising from my decision to have a kanji symbol applied as a tattoo. Signed The above is a reply from Rand at Cherry Creek Flash....Pretty much explains it all....and yes we do use the new disclaimer now!...TAz PS...Cherry Creek was NOT saying anything about a disclaimer when I bought the flash years ago.....But I still ain't mad at em!...It is still MY responsibility as an artist to make sure my art is represented properly TAz

Kinda off topic but funny I had a friend who had the words WORKING CLASS down the back of his arms and when he wore his work shirt the only letters still visable were KING ASS.....poor guy. But seriously Taz you seem very stand up.....Props.

Thanks for the kind words Molly!! I appreciate it!..T

here it is Doc!

Somehow I get the impression from reading these threads that 99% of persons who tattoo would be unable to feed themselves if they stopped doing kanji and tribal cum catcher tattoos. As a person who speaks 4 languages, I can understand how these errors in translation could occur, if they were not done intentionally. Some things just do not translate, and some things have several meanings, some have implied second meanings etc. I do think you should put all of the weight on the consumer though, and make them research it themselves. Perhaps say ask Professor so and so at University X who is also a paid translator. Personally I think it's foolish to get a tattoo in a language you do not understand, speak or write, in a culture you do not belong to, or are unafilliated with, have never been to, or a culture you have never experienced. To make this funny I'll tell a story. I went to a polish bar with a friend of mine a few months ago. We're sitting down when this drunk kid comes up to us slurring and stuff, in english, telling us how he's polish. He could not however speak the language. He then showed us his tattoo of what he thought was the polish white eagle. What he had, in fact, was a falcon, and he wouldn't listen to my friend when he told him this.

Hi Ed ...haven't seen you here before so WELCOME! I agree but only to a point...as a tattoo artist my clients trust me and, by rote, trust that the kanji, archaeic symbols and the odd foreign langauges I have on my wall and in my books are accurate...I OWE them honesty AND accuracy.Since my little mishap with the bad kanji we have researched ALL of the above just to assure ourselves and to be able to honestly assure our clients that what they see is what they get...I will place blame on no one but myself if I tattoo someone with a design that I am guaranteeing is accurate and it is not.My clients pay my bills and I OWE it to them to be damn sure that the kanji that is depicted as meaning "honor" does not instead mean "small rodent" (yep...we found that one!) Other artists and shops can do as they will, but in MY studio you will get EXACTLY what you pay for.... Thanks for your post and your opinion ED....TAz

hee hee.. tribal cum catcher.... love it. theval