WTF!!! Big time "Scratching" shop

http://www.bigdogzink.com/chris.html I am in awe! --------------------------------------------------------------- Cravink AKA Fallen KIng Tatooconnect.com ---------------------------------------------------------------

yup me also...hehe you saw my opinion of it. Sad...simply sad. If I lived close I would go burn the shop down tonight.

hey gabe...this shop looks like its up in your neck of the woods...burn it down or charge extra to repair that mess?? wheres the closest laser studio?

Yea the only humane thing to do is to break this guys arms in so many places that he'll never gain function of them again. save the world from his unbelievable shitty tattoos and crooked piercings.

It must be a hoax!

Is it possible to suck this much, wow, I can't get it over, and it's not only one or two tattoos, that guy has a whole scratched clientele! I will pray for those victims --------------------------------------------------------------- Cravink AKA Fallen KIng Tatooconnect.com ---------------------------------------------------------------

You know, the only person to blame for getting a bad tattoo is the client. No one is forcing anyone to sit in anyone's chair. Its our job to educate the public enough... and cover up the dung with goodness!

Oh, and we will have a Laser guy here next March 22-24th. Jack Morton, amazing laser removal guy...

In some respects thats true Gabe. it is indeed a clients responsibilty to check out their artist before hand. But not everybody knows this. Your lucky enough to get to be around some of the best tattoo artists out there. But a tremendous portion of people who get tattoos dont share your luck. they dont know what great tattoos can look like because the only shops in theyre area are dime a dozen with marginally capable artists. How is that theyre fault for not knowing the proper steps to getting a great piece of art. Not everyone is immersed in the tattoo world as most of us are. Some people think that all they need to do to get a great tattoo is head into a shop with an idea in their head and thats all it takes. Some people dont know that they need to worry about hack artists. Sure its part of their responsibility. The problem is less the clients and more the capability of untalented assholes to open their own studio.

I can't believe that these are that bad!! I know there are bad tattoos and scratchers' out there but this is the first time I've seen a complete advertised portfolio..this guy is actually PROUD of his scratchings!! AMAZING. I see he has a contact link. Has anyone e-mailed him?? I'm tempted!

Oh I tried, his email is dead.....believe me he wouldn't have wanted to read it anyways.

wow! all i can say is wow...

OhSillyDutchman, If someone is going to put permanent artwork on their bodies then they are solely responsible for the quality of that art. Sure, a tattoo artist also has a responsibility to never put a bad tattoo on someone or they will pay karmawise, but anyone who gets a bad tattoo has only one person to blame, themselves, no excuses, the buck stops there. I am not saying this from some mighty high-horse, i have plenty of bad tattoos I got because I didnt do my homework, and I am getting them lasered and re-covered because of MY mistakes. If someone doesnt know what a good tattoo is before they get a tattoo, then its their own fault. You could also get some traction that the population is uneducated and the culture is partially to blame for not insuring that everyone has basic art understanding, but in the end if you get a tattoo, you get the one you deserve... The problem is definitely with the uneducated population, there will always be poor quality tattoo artists out there...

Very very true Gabe. It just really sucks as you say karma wise that these guys are preying on stupid people. i just definitely see how it could it happen, in the city im living in theres like seven tattoo shops within a block of each other. and none of them are anything worth getting a tattoo at especially with the talent thats out there especially when im living in a state home to many many talented artists. and yea had i not started researching tattoos and artists did i realize how close i had come to wasting money and my skin on artists who really didnt care about the quality of their art just the bottom line at the end of the month.

i dont even know what to say....thats the worst i have ever seen...

WOW. worst ever.his flowers look like someone blow torched em and took a shit all over it after. someone make a DON'T GO TO THESE SCRATCHERS site or something....

ive been trying to contact them...and finally got ahold of dave...i told him i would trade quality work for his ebay equipment just so i could end this madness...he hung up on me...then i did a search for licensed tattoo studios in mass. and they aren't one of them...wow ...someone please help these guys...

That Chris is the fuckin OWNER!!! Damn, suck so bad.

I gotta blame the client. If you actually sat down in this guys chair after looking at photos of other work he's done then your a fool. I didn't see one good line. I've seen jailhouse tats done with paperclips and burnt paper ash that look better than this shit. Damn and I thought you couldn't possibly be worse than this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU12XO_HlDY

GABE: in theory you should blame the client. Now view this from a professional point of view...here is an example: - You are sick, you go to the Doctor to get an immediate cure. - The Dr for some reason decide to give you medicine for the flu when what you have is a kidney infection. Do you blame the client still? or Do you rather blame a professional that malpractice on you. You walk to an establish hospital knowing that the last thing you have to worry about your health is if the Drs. really know what they are doing. Same with a shop, after so many regulations, paperwork, and some times "bullshit" any retard can go ahead and open a shop, get some machines from "workhorse, mickey sharp" (they only sell to shop, not too good artists!) and start a scratching business? For the sake of tattooing, personally disagree with you. In most states, law makers forgot to make one clause > "proof that you or your team know how to practice the procedure"

GABE: in theory you should blame the client. Now view this from a professional point of view...here is an example: - You are sick, you go to the Doctor to get an immediate cure. - The Dr. for some reason decide to give you medicine for the flu when what you have is a kidneys' infection. Do you blame the client still? or Do you rather blame a professional that performed a malpractice on you. You walk to an established hospital knowing that the last thing you have to worry about aside your health, is if the Drs. really know what they are doing. Same with a shop, after so many regulations, paperwork, and some times "bullshit" any retard can go ahead and open a shop, get some machines from "workhorse, mickey sharp" (they only sell to shop, not too good artists!) and start a scratching business? For the sake of tattooing I personally disagree with you. In most states, law makers forget to make one clause > "proof that you or your team know how to practice the procedure" Cravink AKA Fallen King http://www.tattooconnect.com

Tattooing is like minor elective surgery, not life saving/health surgery. If someone goes to a shitty plastic surgeon, they deserve the shitty nose job and cant blame the shitty doctor. Stupid people get stupid tattoos because they are stupid, not because of stupid artists. Im not into lawsuits or shifting blame to anyone else unless necessary. If necessary, I can put some of the blame on a culture that encourages quick fast cheap easy, and not educated patient quality. But, in the end, if you are going to ask someone to mark you for the rest of your life, its your responsibility to make sure the artist is perfect, whether you have been educated or not.

Also, you said "You walk to an established hospital knowing that the last thing you have to worry about aside your health, is if the Drs. really know what they are doing." I NEVER walk into a hospital knowing I dont have to worry about my health or that all the doctors know what they are talking about. I dont trust traditional American doctors very much, especially after being mis-diagnosed and doped up for 3 months. Choose your doctors and hospitals and health care professionals with WAY WAY WAY more research and recommendations than your tattoo artist.

I haven't been here (the forum) for some time and am not going to point blame for the HORRID work I saw there....but I think both are to blame (client, and scratcher). The client should have been well aware of the limitations of this guy, and this guy should have had his hand broken a lonnnnngggg time ago (which by the looks of his work, has already been done). It is the clients responsibility to look at the artists work BEFORE choosing to sit in the chair. If it is the only shop around, I for one would have laughed my ass off and walked right out the door! Gabe has a valid point but I still think getting work done is the responsibility of BOTH individuals. M

Mike, do you have any bad tattos? Do you really blame the artist that did them? I feel that everyone is responsible for their own actions. I never meant to imply that the hack artists dont have a responsibility to stop, I meant to say that they will indeed pay for the bad karma they build while putting bad tattoos on people. BUT everyone is 100% responsible for their own decision to get a tattoo and by whom, no one forces you into anyones chair. You get a bad tattoo there is one person to blame, yourself. You give a bad tattoo there is one person to blame, yourself. Sad fact is, if an artist is sterile and safe then they should have the right to tattoo no matter their skill level. Its up to the public to be smart enough to decide who to go to. I guess its up to professionals who lead the industry to educate the public, lucky for tattoo artists the mere act of putting an amazing piece of artwork one someone will educate hundreds, if not thousands of people...

It's guys like this Chris Crinkle fuck that really piss off guys like me trying to get into the business. I'm trying like hell just to dump the trash and maybe if i'm lucky sweep the floor in any shop I can find and this piece of shit is more than likely making a killing putting shit like that one people. Probably went through a traditional apprenticeship too , I bet, or sucked off the license examiner something, I have more talent in the tip of my dick than this guy has in his whole fucking body. I , with no formal art training at all could do better tattoos with a fucking coat hanger than this guy can with what I think he quoted was one of the pneuma (sp?) machines? FUcking disgraceful to the industry , everyone in it , everyone who cares about tattoos, anyone trying to get into tattoos , and especially anyone selling this fuck the equipment to do such horrid work. There should be a prescreening process of some sort , I know it's not logical to expect that but christ this man is a reason why there shuold be. Can't even begin to point out the flaws in every single fucking tattoo this guy's done or has pictures of. And it's people like him that give alot guys and girls that sense of ya know what fuck being a pro I can do way better than this fuck. Sad fact is , they can, and they are. Alot can be said about how hard people come down on the unlicensed scratchers giving the world of tattoos a bad name , but maybe all the people with so much to say about that should take a glance around their professional side of the street and point some fingers there as well. If your average person with some intelligence sees this work and understands it to be up to par, he is in a parlor, he does have an autoclave and a website , he must be licensed, then why are they supposed to think that this type of work is not ok? besides the obvious reasons. christ this is frustrating.

Jer, let it go. People who do bad tattoos arent getting ahead in life, indeed, their karma will catch up with em, and they arent going anywhere. "Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..." What the @#$% do you care if someone is hacking people up? Your a much better person for being patient, and the reward will pay off that patience with dividends. Lastly, I dont feel one iota of competition with hacks. Sure, we might not have as much walk in business, but the people we are trying to reach want good quality tattoos, and this rarely includes people looking for super bargains and hook ups. We work real hard to educate the public, and good tattoos win over hacks if properly publicized....

Mike, do you have any bad tattos? Do you really blame the artist that did them? I have a couple of bad tattoos - not as bad as the crap that was displayed on these sites - but they are not that good. I was young when I got them and did not know any better. Think back to when you first had the opportunity to get ink...my guess is a lot of people don't know any better the first time or two around. I would say that it is the responsibility of the client (and I am a client - I know I do not have the skills to do what good artists do, but I sure like getting tattooed and being around it), but at the same time these "scratchers" need to be put out of business because when you are new to it and you do not have people around you who know any better you are going to get shitty ink. Getting tattooed was not the in thing to do at the time, so I had no freaking idea. The people who were victimized by these guys may not have know either. Hell, I could barely get my hands on an magazine that had tattoo art in it back then. Of course, information is all over the place now, so that is not as big of a factor. Fortunately for me, my work just needed some touch up and some imagination and it looks great. These unfortunate people are going to need some serious help.

"Sad fact is, if an artist is sterile and safe then they should have the right to tattoo no matter their skill level. Its up to the public to be smart enough to decide who to go to." well said

Looks like the infamous "freehand" tattooing we've heard so much about :)

"Sad fact is, if an artist is sterile and safe then they should have the right to tattoo no matter their skill level. Its up to the public to be smart enough to decide who to go to." Except for the fact that even if they do follow sterilization procedures people as apparently untrained as them could still severely damage a persons skin. they have no rights at all. their clients should have excercised better judgement. But i really dont feel that any untrained asshole has any rights tattooing just because they can afford to open a shop. Shops like those bring down the reputation of tattoos in general

All the time its said that scratchers have no right to be tattooing. what about these scratchers??? Is it their money that apparently gives them newfound rights to tattoo as they please.

Perhaps instead of ragging the guy, a professional critique is in order. If then he is unresponsive and uncaring about the quality... then there is room to gripe. The reason I picked up this thread was the comment about the "freehand" shop... knowing clearly what that's referring to. Where others would ignore, even condemn, this place... I see opportunity. It is an opportunity to meet folks from another place, learn, and maybe teach a little. And I walk away better for it while "drama queens" just want to bitch and moan. This is the parallel I'd like to draw... I don't see "big name American artists" rag on old world practices and other traditions of tattoo. For instance: Eastern and Polynesian methods applied with sticks? Have they taught about the benefits of using gloves and single use needles? Probably. Though you or I might not find the style and technique appealing... There are those enthusiasts that do. Maybe their clients like b.dgz. work and feel they got a good value. Who are we to judge? If the client doesn't like the work... they have learned a lesson and will move on to better illustrators, removal, or coverup. This may sound unlike me after the whole inkmsterz deal... but I've been doing some soul searching about these issues lately. Recently I rediscovered a slew of pics of my old work. Not great, but we all pay our dues and start somewhere. It made me realize that I have REALLY improved. Also that I've earned what I have through a LOT of hard work, tribuation, dedication, trial and error. Not everyone in this biz can or will be *(insert your favorite famous artist's name here)* I hope Gabe and Cory Krueger get a ton of coverup work out of the deal. And that b.dgz is clean so nobody gets an infection. I only know I would not get tattooed there. Then again, I won't be getting tattooed in Samoa either, as much as I love the designs. I love seeing the passion everyone in the forum has for this art. It makes what I do worthwhile. Take care, -Kandyman Joe www.pureimaginationtattoos.com www.kandymanjoe.com

Look at the frontage. "underground prices" nuff said. www.bigdogzink.com/shopphotos.html

Holy ink shit batman....well I guess we all can't be winners.... but it looks like their making money...but for how long?????

Hey Joe!!! I will see ya friday at my "freehand" shop!!! We may not get rich this weekend but we are gonna have a LOT of fun!!! BTW...I really enjoyed that last post buddy!!

I guess "paying your dues" doesn't always ascertain that you'll achieve a good artistic ability in this art. I guess industry is the right word there, because what this man does is not art. It may be a profession but not art. Like a painter who sprays vinyl siding 60 hours a week maybe a painter but not an artist. It's makes me angry I guess but (lmao wash away your hangover and get back in the game AXE RECOVERY SHOWER GEL? lmao what kind of ad is that Gabe? ) sorry lol just glanced up. anyhow, licensed or not everyone's made the point , essentially it is your fault for choosing a lousy artist, and as long as these poor foolish individuals walk away happy , all anyone else can do is voice an opinion. And that sucks sure. Kinda like getting a maaco paint job I suppose. It's just frustrating as all hell to see that kind of work. I mean it's no secret that I did the underground gig for quite some time , and I saw my fair share of nasty fucking tattoos, hell even did a few i'm more than just a bit ashamed of when i started. But even those were not as bad as these things. just scary i guess that people like this can "make it" however short lived this career may be for them. And from a sterile angle , if he's clean he's clean. No that doesn't change the view that his scratches are going to give the industry, I just hope there's enough great artist out there and coming into the industry to place the standards well above what this man is doing. Thanks to people like Taz and Gabe and Crave and all the rest of hte people, artists and enthusiasts alike, who make it a point to give advice and educate the public about what a good tattoo should look like. Not in an attempt to knock down upcoming artist and people trying to learn, but maybe there should be a nice gallery somewhere of BAD tattoos, hell I could submit some, no name knocking or anything like that just referrence material. we can all find pictures of great ink , and I suppose it's a good sign that nowadays you have to look much harder to find horrible art than you do the good stuff.

Princess Jer... www.badtattoos.com!!! Enjoy!! Joe I can't wait to meet you at TAzfest and the shop! The post you wrote above hit home with me and I will never be so quick to make fun of others work again. Thank you for opening my eyes.And by the way are you related to Taz? Your mindset is so alike LOL!!

I really think what we're quantifying here though when we say "artistic ability" is the ability to apply the ink itself, interpreting the stencil, design ect..That I believe is the true measure of the artistic quality and not always the design itself. This guys work sucks, that's a given, even if he could draw on paper. On the other hand, lately I've been really into some of the old time history of tattooing: The Sailor Jerry's, Bert Grimm, Ed Hardy, the Coney Island crew and on paper these guys really weren't what you'd consider today as artistic genuises. In looking at the old flash, some (most) of it is pretty simplistic and could very well be drawn without any formal art training BUT there is something very artistic, to me anyway, in it's simplicity. I remember back maybe 10 or more years ago that if I went into a shop, I wouldn't even look at the old school flash..to me it was laughable. Now in retrospect I look at it in a much more appreciative sense. (I'm actually getting an old Bert Grimm design done next month) Basically what I'm saying in this long winded diatribe is that it, the design, doesn't always need to be this complex detailed masterpiece to be a good or even a great tattoo however, the transposing of it to the skin is key. This I beleive is where the "real" art begins. A simple heart and rose or a skull and crossbones or the Roadrunner for that matter can be a great tattoo if done with skill and precision..all that said, this guy has neither!

whoa holy fuck those are some pretty horrid tattoos , one or two of them things may have been ok with some touch up , jesus though. That looks like the stuff your cell mate can do to ya after too much hooch in the joint. Scary shit , thanks for the link Tim.

wtf?! this guy actually gets away with this?! I am by NO means a tattoo artist at all.. I do have an apprenticeship waiting for me though, I havent started yet.. but holy crap.. the tattoos I've given myself are a million times better than that! I wouldnt dream of giving anyone (besides myself lol) a tattoo unless i knew what I was doing. thats why i was one of the smart ones that actually looked for an apprenticeship.. holy crap.. I'm just disgusted..

I JUST CALLED THESE FINE FOLKS AND TOLD THEM HOW BAD THEY SUCKED MMANN THEY WERE PISSED....THEY WANTED TO KICK MY ASS

A little Beavis and Butthead Wisdom: Butthead: Hey Beavis... huhuh, you need the stuff that like.. sucks... so you know whats...like... huhuh... cool... Beavis: yeah yeah ... cool... Butthead: Don't bogart it... dude.

This guys really crossed the line, they all seem to be proud of their crimes. Just look at their pictures. The owner is smiling like saying "I know... I am a hell of a tattoo artist" More stories about this retards can be found here: http://www.tattooconnect.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256

wow, I have never replied to one of these things but I felt compelled to this time...it was like a terrible car accident...it was awful...i didn't want to look anymore but I just couldn't help myself. how about the before and after picture??? that was some amazing work.

Honestly, I cant believe folks are spending so much time worrying and calling bad artists, seems to me people should be spending that time getting better yourselves. But what do I know, I dont even tattoo...

Say I vote for the PATRIOT on page 3 for the Best Worst Fucked up Tat...

i dont know that thing (tribal heart thing)on the back of the ladies neck in blue on page 2 was really bad...i let my little girl tattoo her name on me and she did better than this guy....shes seven....nuff said..

Gabe, tell us what you want us to post then :) I thought this was a public forum where people can express themselves. I also thought that to defend the industry was important and to point out or warn the non experienced was part of our job to keep the industry as legit as possible. Like you said, you don't tattoo so there is no much for you to care about as an artist.

Here here Gabe. Crave: I think the point is its o.k. to have an opinion... EVEN to think there is "suckage" going on with the work. But how much more energy is it worth? As with any creativity, that energy might be better spent not worrying about someone else... And focusing on the development of ones own practice or business. -Kandyman Joe

I agree with Gabe, If you cant find something more creative to do with your time then you are a sad person. Peeps posting about burning other peoples property down because they are “ Disrespecting “ art. Please that’s just plain thuggish to say the least & Not any credit to the tattoo industry. I mean the post was funny in itself but then like Gabe pointed out way to much effort has but put into this Thread. The guy isn’t an artist he hasn’t even learned to tattoo, The people with his practice knew it was just that.

Craveink, you can post whatever you want whenever you want... dont remember telling or implying you shouldnt? Indeed this is a public forum for people to express themselves and you know that I encourage people to speak their minds. As do I. "I also thought that to defend the industry was important and to point out or warn the non experienced was part of our job to keep the industry as legit as possible." Warning the inexperienced is part of the job(those its not like these guys are exactly hiding their portfolios or anything, anyone getting tattooed by them sees exactly what they are gonna get). I guess bashing and harassment is part of the industry too... I mean, honestly, I could care less if these guys get a zillion calls telling them to quit, thats part of the karma of tattooing before your time. But the witch hunt really is thuggish, its like watching a bunch of people jump on the dickhead weakling loser. Its kinda like, why bother worrying about dickhead weakling losers. For me, pushing the industry up means focusing on producing the best work possible and promoting it in a healthy professional manner. Educating the public about whats possible will allow them to see how hackers works sucks. While You could spend all day long just calling bad artists who shouldnt be tattooing, you can easily find a zillion other things more positive to do. Whatever, no skin off my back, Im not gonna waste my time bringing hacks to the publics attention, Ill show them amazing art. "Like you said, you don't tattoo so there is no much for you to care about as an artist." While I did say I dont tattoo I didnt mean to imply I dont care about art(wow, you really dont have a very good opinion of me, eh?). I guess I forgot that only folks who tattoo can care much about art... What a fun world we live in, half this board thinks Im a tattoo/art snob and the other half thinks I dont care about art... Ah, natures beautiful. In any event, Josey, be careful there buddy, its a slippery slope your approaching... first you agree with a non-tattoo artist owner once, then maybe twice, and the next thing you know you'll be giving me your hugs and blessings... ha. Ack, I should be practicing my programming instead of explaining how taking the time to bash the less talented wont bring anyone up...

DAMMITTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah Gabe is a fuckin tattoo snob! We need a million more JUST LIKE HIM!!!! I agree with Kandyman!...Lets try to HELP this guy (chris Crinkle sp?) instead of wasting energy trashing him....and lets keep educating the public to prevent these things from occurring! Sorry Gabe I had to butt in for a sec!! LOL!!!

My guess is now that your site is up & running you`ll be butting in a lot more. hehehe

My biggest fear of people doing tattoos that are THAT BAD is the fact that they obviously never learned how to tattoo, so how do we know that they're doing it in a SAFE and CLEAN manner? It's a threat to the health of everyone when you think about it.

break some legs

Good point Krystof. But I know some hack artists around here that promote soley on how clean they are... and yes, thier shops are spotless, with clean health records... but the artistic/technical ability is barely a step above badtattoos.com. Is there a way to better the situation, or should we just wait for natural selection to take over?

Of course there's a way to better the problem. Constrict the laws governing who can be licensed and who can not MORE. lol I say that with a horribel negative connotation because where I am it's already quite the pain in the ass to get licensed but it's ok. From whta I understand , Taz may or may not be able to help or verify some of this with me, is that many of the old timer tattoo artists are also on the board of cosmetology or have a loud voice as far as what laws are passed governing the licensing and studios. I'ts been my understanding that they don't make up the entire board but they are a part of it which is a good and a bad thing. But if they can help to pass a law saying you have to apprentice for 1200 hours surely they can help to pass a law saying you also have to take and PASS with above average marks , certain basic or even advanced art training classes. Which means the state and the board itself would have to agree on a program or set courses that would be relevent to tattooing, and make that part of the apprenticeship guidelines. Maybe even develop different stages of licensing perhaps? More laws and more rules tend to restrict artistic freedom I understand that and I really dont' want it to be harder for myself to get licensed either but maybe it needs to be done anyhow. You have apprentice tattoo artists , then what? all of a sudden you're a master artist because you have a license? hell no, Journeyman, trademan , master whatever ya wanna call it , it's the professionals in the industry that can help to change the laws governing this. And i've just realized how much my views on this whole subject have changed in the last year or so. anyhow bye

I'm leaning more toward natural selection than more laws... but thats just me... you never know who will surprise you 10 years later with how much they've improved... I say that b/c I've had people follow my art career for that long who have said that about my work. It all comes down to how much the individual pushes themself to get better... and not over-worrying about the critics of the moment.

Legislating art sounds like a HORRIBLE idea. I believe in a strong government, one that protects the health of the population, but not one that makes sure that tattoo artists have art skills. Thats up to the marketplace. If anything, fund arts education (and education in general) so the population knows the difference. In short, if you are losing business to hackers you need to get better at educating the public about art. If someone is safe then the law should step off.

I can see the points you're both making , especially about the being safe part.But and i'm just going by what I know of ks law , is ya know maybe take 100 hours off of what would have been spent on pattern making procedures and have it directed towards your basic highschool level art class. I've seen artists without a lick of education that can blow some people away who've spent thousands of dollars in art school, so yeah there's always the exception. But I think in general and this Crinkle fella is a perfect example, everyone could benefit from learning a bit more about how to create line drawings, shading, line weights(especially) if not what you got is a little reminder course you have to tackle before you can get a license. Being as this cat's on the east coast I really don't see him getting rich there's a plethera of great artist just choking this guy out of the market as we speak. Eventually all those people are going to walk into a better studio , and see what their tattoos should have looked like. Or wonder how come their ink doesn't compare with all the neat ideas they see on the internet or even here at this forum. I know i'd like to talk to a couple of these "satisfied" customers , just to get an understanding of why they went there. eh I guess it's not so much an issue I have to deal with more like one I'm interested in being a part of. All bullshit aside I"ve done tattoos that bad , and thank god my poor friends didn't kill me. But it's kinda that karma pay back I guess that makes me wanna be on the opposite side of this crinkle guy and people like him who actually believe this type of work is acceptable as professional quality.

Is it just me or does the name Chris crinkle make ya wanna stop believing in santa claus!!..:-)

As long as there are people who insist on getting their tattoos done as cheaply as possible if not for free, hackers and scratchers will always exist. Supply and demand.

quick update -- the bigdogz' site is completely down...

Lets hear it for Darwin!!! Hoorah!!! www.pureimaginationtattoos.com www.kandymanjoe.com

it couldnt happen to a better group....

Now instead of the world seeing the crap he puts out, He is driven to keeping his untrained art a secret to everyone but his next victim. Way to go, There really is Tattoo Heroes ( rolls eyes )

We have similar feelings there josey, its not really a "victory" at all cause I doubt these guys closed up shop... just took their pics down. Whatever, nature will work itself out just fine with or without us. Personally, I cant wait to put up a site like that someday with someone elses phone number listed....

JOSEY seems to be posting a lot here. Can we see some of your work Josey?

don't post your shit here, josey, these jacktards will steal it.

^^no, let's see Painted Angel's work first. ho hum.

Hey kooch ive seen quite a few tattoos from their shop. Ive yet to see ANYTHING of yours though. not even a drawing. So yea why don't you follow your own advice first, as you do enjoy criticizing others work. Hey Dez i know your more than an idiot so i can understand how seeing the obvious might be tricky. This would be a website in which many many many incredibly talented artists POST THEIR TATTOOS. Um yea im sure everybody is going to wait with bated breath to steal Joseys work instead of the thousands of amazing tattoos already posted on here.

Yes, thousands of amazing tattoos! The recent uploads are great. The leaves in my yard are just piling up!

dutch, go bandage your knees. they're bleeding again.

Dutch has bleeding knees? dont get it... Dutch is right, the whole point of TattooNOW is to post tattoos up so the public can see em... Dez, do you not post any of your tattoos online or send them out to the magazines?

there's not much point, in all seriousness. where i come from, there's no way for people to get where i am even if i did advertise. i basically have to make my living in a small isolated market. i'd move, but my roots here are deep, and i have other artistic avenues that make me money. limited edition prints are the backbone of my business.

I find self-promotion tacky Like an insurance guy passing out businesses cards at a funeral or a lawyer doing the same thing only in a bar. So many artist need the pat on the back from their peers to be fulfilled or to feel as if they have achieved something special. I was never one to be star struck, I recognized who is the field was successful & learned what I needed to by studying the work not the person. I don’t see any need for people to travel thousands of miles for tattoo work when in just about any city in American is a qualified Tattooist, And to my experience they don’t. So what’s the point of advertising to anyone outside your local area ? Ego maybe ? Personally I don’t know mainly because I don’t feed off the judgment of others unless it’s a paying customer. Now I know this post leaves me open for the many argumentative people who post here, But hey Its only my Opinion.

i have no beef with self promotion. but like you said, it's not feasable to spend time spreading my shit around if i'm not planning to get out of my area. also, i can't see anyone travelling great distances to get tattooed by me when there are many excellent artists around who can do the job just as well, or better. another thing is time. i don't have the time to handle anymore business than i already have. i have a tattoo artist on staff, and an apprentice (whom i pay an hourly wage, you cheap cocksuckers) and we're kept very busy. the majority of my business comes from sales of art prints and original works. in this area, i do much more promotion because i can send them anywhere in the world so it's worth it to reach out to a larger client base. as for needing approval from others, i'm not huge on that, but it's nice to be acknowleged for your work. btw, i'm hung like sadam hussein.

Like my favorite art instructer once told me: If you don't toot your own horn, no one else will do it for you. Self promote away and have fun. I encourage it in ALL my artist-contractors. At the same time, try not to be a douche about it. One EXTREME example pops into mind immediately. Just wondering when and if that ship's gonna crash like Darkside did... At least that shipwreck worked out better for the (most) of the artists later on. -Kandyman Joe www.pureimaginationtattoos.com www.kandymanjoe.com

Dez, where can we see some of your prints? You have some pretty strong opinions and it would be helpful (and fun!) to see some of your artistic endeavors to get a frame of reference. About self promotion being tacky, I tend to agree, but its really only tacky if you break the rules. the rules are: Be polite when you put out the hooks and let the kind people reel themselves in. If your art is good enough, you dont need to shout that loud. Indeed, not having to shout is a sign of true talent. But its not tacky to let folks know you exist and how to view your work. I dont like to toot my own horn, indeed, if other people dont toot it for you then its not worth tooting in the first place! Of course having a strong sense of self worth is healthy(dont laugh wifey!), but I would try to work real hard so others are motivated to do the horn tooting for you. In marketing-speak third party endorsements are more valuable. Compliments are just distractions... I am more interested in hearing about all the things that need improvement (oh lordy, so many things!) I have found that the artists who need the pat on the back are the ones not comfortable with their work or themselves. I have found that the top tier of artists tend to be the most gracious helpful sharing thankful humble artists I work with. Most feel pretty blessed that their hard work and talents have helped them achieve "success" and give back to the community as much as they can. Of course there are people who do things very differently, but it seems those who make it their business to be kind and help people have built an exceptionally strong foundation... As far as building a traveling cliental, starting with Darkside Tattoo ten years ago (more?) I have helped artists build a cliental that travels to reach them. The way I see it is tattoo art is (or should be) like fine art and even though there are plenty of competent artists everywhere, clients will travel for someone an artist whos style strikes their fancy. The point of advertising (or attracting) people regionally is because your work is moving enough that people will drive from far away to get a good custom tattoo from you. In the long run, clients who travel are serious about the art and indeed are some of your(or our) best clients. I mean, this whole website is based on helping people find the right artist so they could travel to them! As far as the Darkside story goes, theres only one artist it didnt end well for.

i'll e-mail you a small snippet.

check your e-mail, fancy-boy.

Thanks for the different perspective on promotion Gabe, it gives me much to think about. I'm not totally sure if its as black and white as 'artists that don't have to shout have signs of true talent.' In the conventions I've been to, some very talented artists shout, some don't talk enough or at all (to other artists or fans). There are many shades of gray as far as that goes. And frankly some clients just eat up that celebrity "tattitude" shit. I don't neccesarily like it, but I see its entertainment value. And it does unfortunately have its parallels in the *legitimate* art world. For myself, I try to find a happy medium. I do agree with you that successful artists should maintain a mindset of thankfulness and gratitude. Maybe some artists just forget where they came from after a while? Interested to hear more of your thoughts on this... I know we're off topic, should we stick to this thread or start new? -Kandyman Joe www.pureimaginationtattoos.com www.kandymanjoe.com

Dez, the picture I received is awesome. I would love to see more. Do you sell your prints online anywhere? If your tattooing could reach the skill level of the watercolor you emailed me, then I imagine people would travel great lengths to get tattooed by ya. I hope you improve your people skills. Kandyman, You said I said "'artists that don't have to shout have signs of true talent.'" and that is what I wrote. that came out a little weird. What I meant was, "The greater an artists talent the less they need to shout". In a perfect world ones art is so tremendous that others do all the honest educated horn tooting for them. If it doesnt happen via word of mouth, then it wont happen. If word of mouth is working, then indeed, horn tooting can generate a LOT of business. Some people are in it for the business and get as much as possible, others are in it strictly for the art or dont know/care about business, and struggle and do it solely word of mouth for years (or less if they are talented, more if they arent but hard working). Most artists fall in the middle where they are talented and if they run their business right and work hard then "success" can be achieved. When word of mouth works, then your marketing becomes very very valuable, cause every client is worth more clients. The thing with tattooing that I love so much is the poroccess is so simple, and the art so moving, that you can watch the business happen and work and you dont have to influence nature too much. If you have great talent, show it to the world, they want it, get it, and naturally want to tell others to get it. Sure, we can use all sorts of gimmicks to get people through the door, and all the client -referrer greasing activities, but for whatever reason tattooing is a world where you achieve more success by being humble and nice, your "ceiling" is raised the better the person you are. Not only are there many shades of grey, there are many shades of the full spectrum! Everyone does it their own way and interacts with nature the best way they see fit. Happy medium is perfect! I dont think the jerks of the world necessarily forget where they came from (though that may be the case), I think the gods of tattooing allow its people to be exactly who they want to be.

thanks, gabe. i doubt i'll be as adept at tattooing as i am at painting anytime soon simply because it's so rare to get to really try something complex with my machine. most peeps want simple inexpensive tats, i hardly ever get a chance to stretch my legs. as for my people skills, um, well, bite me.

people skills. ha. i'm friendly and charming. but my fingers aren't when they type. boo hooooo. spank me. spank me. with my keyboard. verbally on my tush. if i can't make any friends or impress anyone on this forum my career is over before it starts!! EVERYONE BE WARNED!!!!!!

omg, dutchie has lost it.

My friends and I have been passing around that big dogz shop link for months now and man we are still pissing ourselves laughing, we have a new saying around our parts now. If someone fucks something up or makes a mistake we call it a Chris Crinkle :) What I can't understand is why he is still allowed to tattoo. He may have a knowledge of running a shop and hell he might be a financial wizard, but for fuck sakes this guy is tattooing people with equipment he has no idea how to use or setup. I can understand he may receive compliments from his friends about how good he is because they're probably all covered with his horrifying crayola tattoos free of charge but they can't be that fucking blind, how could anyone be? I really hope he takes a step back and seeks out a real apprenticeship so they can enlighten him to how truly fucked up and horrible his concept of colour,linework and general tattoo design truly is.

My friends and I have been passing around that big dogz shop link for months now and man we are still pissing ourselves laughing, we have a new saying around our parts now. If someone fucks something up or makes a mistake we call it a Chris Crinkle :) What I can't understand is why he is still allowed to tattoo. He may have a knowledge of running a shop and hell he might be a financial wizard, but for fuck sakes this guy is tattooing people with equipment he has no idea how to use or setup. I can understand he may receive compliments from his friends about how good he is because they're probably all covered with his horrifying crayola tattoos free of charge but they can't be that fucking blind, how could anyone be? I really hope he takes a step back and seeks out a real apprenticeship so they can enlighten him to how truly fucked up and horrible his concept of colour,linework and general tattoo design truly is.

wow- I really thought when I read this thread It was just going to be a shop owned by someone who somebody else knew didn't do an apprenticeship and therefore felt the need to rip on them- but- I apologize- thats amazing scary actually- amazingly scary!! from skanking through all the forums online I always get this idea people are called "scratchers" just because they're trying to learn in an untraditional fashion- but- if Im correct- that appears to be a text book example- the site should stay up just for that reason!!

If ya got a myspace look at this one. Think they are related? http://www.myspace.com/timtattoo2

damn- your rough- That guy doesn't exactly astonish me, and I can't say I would let him ink me- but I would have never put him in the same barrel as the guy at the shop which this thread was started about- Im not a pro though- so what do I know-

I don't see what you guys are bitching about. I can sorta tell what the designs are supposed to be, and they don't seem to be that off center and misaligned!! To fully appreciate thse mega talents, just drink alot and spin around 20 or 30 times and the tats will look pretty good!! With some art lessons and a little time, thse guys will be kicking some serious ass in 30 or 40 years!!

Holy fuckin hell what a bunch of whining selfrightous crap! Ok, the guy does tats that everyone thinks could be better...... so what? All youve done is give anyone within driving distance an address and contact number (through posting his website) so they can call up and make an appointment to get one of his tats. Way to go! Youve just increased his exposure and given him around (my humble estimate) $10,000.00 worth of free advertising. Do you all think anyone really pays attention to your badmouthing him? Not fucking likely! I'm no expert and not recognised as a famous international artist so my opinion may not count for much. I expect a ton of bashing over this post but so what. FUCK YOU! There, I beat you to it. I win. Fucking grow up and help the industry grow instead of bitching about what is not right with it. If its wrong or bad, it wont be around long. If its good and true, my grandkids will be using it as an example. Some things are BEST left alone............

I have been to there web site and all I can say is horrible but at the same time,these guys don't give a shit about what they are doing what so ever and I have read all the comments,some people have gone as far as to check if these guys are licenced to have a shop and are not (to all the Proffessionals like myself who do care) There is alot of bitching about how crap their tattooing is but it won't change until we as proffessionals make it change. we need to start working with the health board and licencing board to to educate them and get these scratchers shut down.What about proper apprenticeships, what about sterilization, there are many steps to becoming great but you have to go about it the proper way. I have been trying to work with the health board in Canada to change things up here, cause as bad as these guys are its happing everywhere. At some point for us to be a recognized industry(taken seriously) we need to make a change! we need to do it cause no one else will! ( Hopeful for the future) Rachel

What's wrong with the people getting tattoos from these gusy?!? Do they not even look at the so-called artist's work? Whenever I see someone with a bad tattoo, I ask them where they got it, so I know where NOT to go!